Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Nothing to do with politics at all. The cause is there morons, simple as  And you wonder why we have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 4 life Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 As I said before......If you truly believe you've got nothing to lose why not? Â And as i've said seemingly a million times this isn't about them having nothing. There sent to normal schools which ok aren't as good as some but there is nothing to stop them working hard, they also get offered the same schemes as everyone outside the city when they leave. Â In London this is especially annoying. Why? Well if a kid in Liverpool says there are no jobs i might believe him, if one says there are none in Tottenham i'd also believe him luckily for him though Tottenham is in London one of the biggest cities in the world a place where if you want work you will get it. Â From my experience of dealing with these gangs they have 2 ambitions. One to be a rapper and if that doesn't work to be a gangster. Jobs are for pussies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 It' a bit redundant though. Concentrating on the causes now is without purpose, poverty won't be alleviated by this evening. It's perfectly possible to believe robust policing should be used to end the violence now, and that causes can be analysed later. As much as I like your posts's David, it is a bit pious, and point scoring-ish, to reel out a bunch of poverty figures at the minute when people, just as poor as the rioters, are having their lives destroyed.  There is an issue about living standards and disenfranchisement with British state institutions and the politics of inclusion, or lack thereof. But, that's for another day. Perhaps if the powers that be hadn't allowed things to get so bad it wouldn't have come to this in the first place? We've seen the gap between the wealthy & the poor widen so much over the past few decades (under both Labour & Conservative Governments) that something like this was always on the cards.  As someone said, it's all well & good when the people from these poverty-stricken areas are only stabbing & shooting each other, isn't it? We can sit on the bus or train to our jobs in the morning, with our expensive headphones on our ears, iPhones in our pockets and steady incomes and shake our heads at the stories in the Metro, but when it affects us directly we want the army, rubber bullets, tanks and water cannons to get these scumbags who are daring to affect our lives.  Obviously it would be great if the rioters were all organised and were only hitting the stores that belong to tax-dodging millionaires and the banks that dish out huge bonuses to the very people who caused the financial meltdown a few years back, but that was never going to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 Why is it point scoring? It's simply looking at what caused such an action, rather than going for the old knee-jerk "they're all scumbags! get the rubber bullets & water cannons out!" reaction. 3 days in I don't think you can use the phrase knee-jerk! In fact I don't see the problem with calling them all scumbags either, because that's what they are. Sure, there maybe things that have made them how they are but everyone is faced with choices in their life, sometimes people choose not to set fire to the local shops even if their life is in a hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 4 life Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 And you wonder why we have problems. Â No i don't, i know why we have problems and i accept that no matter how hard you try there will always be problems. That's life. But anyone who loots, burns down business' and homes is a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) I think people are missing the point about how poverty can cause people to act irrationally or violently. People are saying 'well, they're clearly not political, they're thugs!'...well, of course, they are. They aren't necessarily being cognitively political, but political forces can effect them without knowing it. They could personally think they are doing it for a laugh, or because they can, but if they were well off they probably wouldn't be rioting. It's not being an apologist to say there is a reason for that. Â That said, there are other people, of equal living standards, who aren't rioting and are suffering. Those are the people I have sympathy for, and those are the people I hope the police come out in force in defend. Â The politics can be sorted later. Â Â Also, parliament has been recalled. Christ. Edited August 9, 2011 by d-d-d-dAz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yep, as soon as the 'normal hard-working, law-abiding citizens' are affected, everything changes. Normally they couldn't give a fuck about these people. The gap between the rich and poor in this country is getting BIGGER, not smaller as certain people seem to believe. We do have a lost generation and if we have any hope of making a better future we need to concentrate on the reasons that cause people to act like this. Â Yeah, fine. But that's not going to help tonight, is it? You seem to have nothing to suggest other than vague future plans for some sort of social rebalancing. Fiddling while Rome burns. I've been a liberal all my life but your blinkered and wet posts in this thread are an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 And as i've said seemingly a million times this isn't about them having nothing. There sent to normal schools which ok aren't as good as some but there is nothing to stop them working hard, they also get offered the same schemes as everyone outside the city when they leave. In London this is especially annoying. Why? Well if a kid in Liverpool says there are no jobs i might believe him, if one says there are none in Tottenham i'd also believe him luckily for him though Tottenham is in London one of the biggest cities in the world a place where if you want work you will get it.  From my experience of dealing with these gangs they have 2 ambitions. One to be a rapper and if that doesn't work to be a gangster. Jobs are for pussies.  Must just be pure chance that they end up like this then. No reason behind it at all. What a load of bollocks - you're so blinkered it's untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Poverty line figures are after tax, housing costs and council tax. Really? Ah well, that's okay then. In fact, they have a bloody cheek even using the term 'poverty line'. Â Yeah, fine. But that's not going to help tonight, is it? You seem to have nothing to suggest other than vague future plans for some sort of social rebalancing. Fiddling while Rome burns. I've been a liberal all my life but your blinkered and wet posts in this thread are an embarrassment. The point is that the people in charge have had fucking ages to address the cause of this. They chose not to. Edited August 9, 2011 by David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Frankie Crisp Posted August 9, 2011 Awards Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) About 25-30 riot vans have just been heading up the M62 on the way in to Liverpool. It's not kicking off yet (that I'm aware of), but word on local news is that police expect worse tonight so they've called in backup from outside of town. Â One of the girls in work lives in the Dingle and had lads running up and down her back garden/alley trying to dodge the police helicopter, whilst her disabled brother who is confined to the ground floor of the house was going out of his mind. I'm going down there later so am going to see what state the area is in. Edited August 9, 2011 by Frankie Crisp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 4 life Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Must just be pure chance that they end up like this then. No reason behind it at all. What a load of bollocks - you're so blinkered it's untrue. Â That would be you. Â By your thinking anyone who comes from a poor area has to turn out a criminal. Luckily for me i didn't because i'd hate people like you making excuses for me being a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yeah, fine. But that's not going to help tonight, is it? You seem to have nothing to suggest other than vague future plans for some sort of social rebalancing. Fiddling while Rome burns. I've been a liberal all my life but your blinkered and wet posts in this thread are an embarrassment. Â I wouldn't need to post them if there wasn't an abundance of people in here who believe that all of this happening is purely down to 'scum' and that there are no influencing factors and nothing has happened over the last few years that have lead to it. I might not be good at giving solutions for riot control but I am at seeing why this could have happened in the first place whereas others seem to find it a complete surprise as if they never in there wildest dreams imagined this could ever happen. Don't make out that this thread has been politically neutral and only about riot control because it quite blatantly hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Quiet people, our Lord and Master is about to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 By your thinking anyone who comes from a poor area has to turn out a criminal. Luckily for me i didn't because i'd hate people like you making excuses for me being a cunt. Â Where have I said anyone who comes from a poor area turns out to be a criminal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yeah, fine. But that's not going to help tonight, is it? You seem to have nothing to suggest other than vague future plans for some sort of social rebalancing. Fiddling while Rome burns. I've been a liberal all my life but your blinkered and wet posts in this thread are an embarrassment. Absolutely brilliant. Â "I'd concentrate on the young 'uns" was a crap statement. You have people who are disenchanted and don't fear the law. You wouldn't lock them up but you don't have any idea what to do with them except "create jobs". I'm sure the government (who I don't support and didn't vote for) have thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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