Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 What is then? Education hasn't, their parents haven't. Where else are you going to get the chance to reform them? Â A lot more chance through education and other public services such as community/youth centres than through prison. We need a total reform of the education system and the prison system. Schemes like where the offender has to meet and apologise to the victim of crime to see the emotional distress they have caused rather than being totally disconnected what they're doing. People are too individualistic these days, that goes for both rich and poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeg_&_The_Heads Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I completely agree with you however you can't just give into people who go about things in this way without punishment. Otherwise, people will be rioting all over the place for any reason. If there's no repercussion, then they truly have nothing to lose. Â I agree with you what 's to stop everyone from doing it even people who are pretty well off just joining the mob to get some free stuff I really don't believe all of these 1000's of people out there are poor some of them will be "rich" compared to the really poor people and even the poor ones most if not all will at least have a roof over their heads some others are far worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 A lot more chance through education and other public services such as community/youth centres than through prison. We need a total reform of the education system and the prison system. Schemes like where the offender has to meet and apologise to the victim of crime to see the emotional distress they have caused rather than being totally disconnected what they're doing. People are too individualistic these days, that goes for both rich and poor. Sure, changes need to be made, but none of it means these people should be off the hook. They are committing serious crimes here. I don't give a fuck how hard they're up bringing may have been, or how shit things are where they live. They know very well that what they are doing is wrong, very wrong. You wanna know why people are accusing you of making excuses? It's because you are. However, it's good that this thread has someone with the flipside of the coin. Â Bottom line is, they have just made their own circumstances so much worse than they ever were before and worse yet they've fucked the rest of us over in the process. So far as I'm concerned they can take their poor me act and spin it in prison away from good, decent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 We don't have the same opportunities. There is a massive difference between the education of some people compared to others and many live in poverty. You're looking through rose-tinted specs if you think that everyone here is 'incredibly lucky'. We may be low on the list in terms of absolute poverty, but in terms of relative poverty (i.e the differences between the rich and the poor), we're one of the worst. And that gap keeps growing. Sure, everyone might have the 'opportunity to be something', but some chances are much, much lower. Â How come they're not looting foodstuffs then? How come they are nicking clothes and electrical goods? Â Get real man. This isn't about need, it's about want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 A lot more chance through education and other public services such as community/youth centres than through prison. A large percentage of these people are way too old for that. A lot are 18-25 year old's. What are you going to do with them? Send them back to school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 How come they're not looting foodstuffs then? How come they are nicking clothes and electrical goods? Â Get real man. This isn't about need, it's about want. Â Yup. A want created by the consumerist society that we live in. Especially amongst the people who can't afford it, so they'll steal it so they can have a piece of the pie. Also, that what you're quoting was not about looting, it was about 'equal opportunities'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 A few facts & figures worth considering; Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 4 life Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Unbelievable that after half of London has been attacked, people have lost homes and jobs, business and let's not forget we still don't know if people have lost lives in Tottenham this thread is still full of shitty left wing point scoring. Â They're young wannabee sometimes real gangsters. This isn't a cry for help, it isn't because they're hard done by it's because they're greedy little scum bags who after Saturday have cottoned on to the fact that the police have now got to the point where their so scared of bad pub or being hauled up for police brutality. Â Why do you think it's spread so quickly? The utter limpness of the police force thats why. Common sense isn't it? You see gang's of youths in other areas having a ball and getting loads of free stuff and you start to realise that you can do it too. It was totally ignored just like every other time people like me have told of first hand experience with these kids but i spoke to my young co worker yesterday who knows a lot of these gangs and she asked a couple of people why they're going down to Enfield and their reply was simply " get free stuff innit?!" Â They aren't scared of punishment as often they live in areas where the police are so under manned and they know the laws better than the actual police themselves. Â It needs to be stopped tonight by any means they have to as for innocent people to lose so much anymore is simply not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 A large percentage of these people are way too old for that. A lot are 18-25 year old's. What are you going to do with them? Send them back to school? Â Well creating jobs for them would be a start. But I'd concentrate more on the young'uns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Unbelievable that after half of London has been attacked, people have lost homes and jobs, business and let's not forget we still don't know if people have lost lives in Tottenham this thread is still full of shitty left wing point scoring. Why is it point scoring? It's simply looking at what caused such an action, rather than going for the old knee-jerk "they're all scumbags! get the rubber bullets & water cannons out!" reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 In fairness, for the point I reiterated before, we've pretty much got a lost generation. The measures Whiskey's suggestion will go a long way in helping the next generation but for those people aged 18-30 now they're pretty much fucked. It's much easier to just say 'scumbags after some free xbox games' & write it off as just that but the reality is that there's been problems in these areas for years that have been pretty much ignored, it doesn't matter when it's just poor people killing other poor people as it doesn't affect everyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 Unbelievable that after half of London has been attacked, people have lost homes and jobs, business and let's not forget we still don't know if people have lost lives in Tottenham this thread is still full of shitty left wing point scoring. Â They're young wannabee sometimes real gangsters. This isn't a cry for help, it isn't because they're hard done by it's because they're greedy little scum bags who after Saturday have cottoned on to the fact that the police have now got to the point where their so scared of bad pub or being hauled up for police brutality. Â Why do you think it's spread so quickly? The utter limpness of the police force thats why. Common sense isn't it? You see gang's of youths in other areas having a ball and getting loads of free stuff and you start to realise that you can do it too. It was totally ignored just like every other time people like me have told of first hand experience with these kids but i spoke to my young co worker yesterday who knows a lot of these gangs and she asked a couple of people why they're going down to Enfield and their reply was simply " get free stuff innit?!" Â They aren't scared of punishment as often they live in areas where the police are so under manned and they know the laws better than the actual police themselves. Â It needs to be stopped tonight by any means they have to as for innocent people to lose so much anymore is simply not on. Â As I said before......If you truly believe you've got nothing to lose why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 It' a bit redundant though. Concentrating on the causes now is without purpose, poverty won't be alleviated by this evening. It's perfectly possible to believe robust policing should be used to end the violence now, and that causes can be analysed later. Â As much as I like your posts's David, it is a bit pious, and point scoring-ish, to reel out a bunch of poverty figures at the minute when people, just as poor as the rioters, are having their lives destroyed. Â There is an issue about living standards and disenfranchisement with British state institutions and the politics of inclusion, or lack thereof. But, that's for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 In fairness, for the point I reiterated before, we've pretty much got a lost generation. The measures Whiskey's suggestion will go a long way in helping the next generation but for those people aged 18-30 now they're pretty much fucked. It's much easier to just say 'scumbags after some free xbox games' & write it off as just that but the reality is that there's been problems in these areas for years that have been pretty much ignored, it doesn't matter when it's just poor people killing other poor people as it doesn't affect everyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 4 life Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Why is it point scoring? It's simply looking at what caused such an action, rather than going for the old knee-jerk "they're all scumbags! get the rubber bullets & water cannons out!" reaction. Â Knee jerk really? I've had half my home town burned down, a friend on another forum had his house broken into and got hit, you must be watching the news at what point do you stop with the do gooding bollocks and start defending the normal folk who have had their lives ruined. It's typical of this thread that you quoted the bit where i mentioned the left wing and ignored every bit of real life experience i mentioned. Â You can sit here talking about poor areas and poor kids all you want, we all know they exist, fuck me more than anyone because i'm from the area it all kicked off but it's all irrelevant bollocks because right now we have a load of people roaming the streets knowing that they can get away with arson, theft and vandalism. Nothing to do with politics at all. The cause is there morons, simple as, the way certain people have gone on in this thread you would think nobody could come out of a poor area without being a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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