METAL ON METAL Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Not my point. I'm not saying he hasn't said it for years, I'm saying it's a lie he's been telling for years as a result of sour grapes, and he's telling it now out of schadenfreude. Â How is it a lie if its what he genuinely believes? Â I also thought Fedor was vastly over-rated over the past 5-6 years and have stated that many times over the years on here. In many ways Dana has been proven right with Fedor's displays in Strikeforce but its not really something you can declare as false or fact - its a personal opinion, not a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 6, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2011 How is it a lie if its what he genuinely believes? Â I also thought Fedor was vastly over-rated over the past 5-6 years and have stated that many times over the years on here. In many ways Dana has been proven right with Fedor's displays in Strikeforce but its not really something you can declare as false or fact - its a personal opinion, not a lie. Â Maybe he does genuinely believe it, but wasn't there a big hoo-ha about how he really wanted to sign Fedor? Feel free to correct me, of course, but I got the impression from various bits of news at the time that he only really started saying stuff like that when he failed to sign him. Came across as sour grapes at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
METAL ON METAL Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Maybe he does genuinely believe it, but wasn't there a big hoo-ha about how he really wanted to sign Fedor? Feel free to correct me, of course, but I got the impression from various bits of news at the time that he only really started saying stuff like that when he failed to sign him. Came across as sour grapes at the time. Â I remembering him saying it before he tried to sign him whilst he was in Affliction. He tried to sign him because it made good business sense to have him in UFC when some people had him as their no.1 HW. Â As Dana has said previously, if he was really the best fighter in the world - why wouldn't he want to actually fight world-class fighters, after all the amendments Dana made that he normally wouldn't to make it happen. Â He has always stuck to the same opinion, both before and after negotiations - personal opinions and business deals don't have to be mutually exclusive when it comes to making money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 6, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2011 I remembering him saying it before he tried to sign him whilst he was in Affliction. He tried to sign him because it made good business sense to have him in UFC when some people had him as their no.1 HW. As Dana has said previously, if he was really the best fighter in the world - why wouldn't he want to actually fight world-class fighters, after all the amendments Dana made that he normally wouldn't to make it happen.  He has always stuck to the same opinion, both before and after negotiations - personal opinions and business deals don't have to be mutually exclusive when it comes to making money.  I see. I was told on here, when I asked the same question Dana did, that apparently the reason why Fedor didn't want to sign for UFC wasn't because he didn't want to fight world-class guys, but because he didn't want to be tied to an exclusive contract, as he was more dedicated to his sombo than MMA. Did Dana allow for that in the offered contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 In many ways Dana has been proven right with Fedor's displays in Strikeforce but its not really something you can declare as false or fact - its a personal opinion, not a lie. In a way he was always going to "proven correct" eventually, wasn't he? Fedor was going to start losing it at some point, all fighters do. If White had said that Fedor wasn't a player in the heavyweight division today, or that he had lost that edge, or even that he had been overtaken by a bigger, faster kind of heavyweight fighter I would have agreed. Â To say that Fedor was always overrated is a bit childish. I think it pissed Dana off that Fedor was the one fighter who he simply wasn't able to sign. The guy wanted to continue competing in Sambo tournaments and that's something that Dana couldn't buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
METAL ON METAL Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 To say that Fedor was always overrated is a bit childish. Â Overrated since leaving Pride is what was meant. Â Since leaving Pride, he beat a middleweight Lindland, Sylvia, Arlovski & Rogers - the latter three getting shown up in all their fights afterwards, plus Arlovski was doing well till the KO and Rogers would've finished him if he had a little cardio (some refs might have stopped it when he was GnP'ing Fedor). Â The competition in Japan was hardly the best their was though. If you take Big Nog, CroCop, a 40 year old Coleman, Randleman, & possibly Herring out of the equation then its just the usual Japanese cans on his Pride record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cum Doctor Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Overrated since leaving Pride is what was meant. Â I've always thought I remembered Dana White talking up what Fedor did there. Could be way off though. I had a wee look there and can't find squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 6, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2011 Since leaving Pride, he beat a middleweight Lindland, Sylvia, Arlovski & Rogers - the latter three getting shown up in all their fights afterwards, plus Arlovski was doing well till the KO and Rogers would've finished him if he had a little cardio (some refs might have stopped it when he was GnP'ing Fedor). Â I saw the Rogers fight, and whatever could be said about him afterwards is irrelevant concerning Fedor, IMO - he fucking broke Fedor's nose with the first punch of the match. For someone to not only keep going, but actually come out the next round-on punching and get a knock-out hit against a massive fucker who can do that to you means you've got to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift89 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 6, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 6, 2011 The competition in Japan was hardly the best their was though. If you take Big Nog, CroCop, a 40 year old Coleman, Randleman, & possibly Herring out of the equation then its just the usual Japanese cans on his Pride record. Â ive been a Fedor defender over the years, and i'll continue to defend him, but i do agree to an extent that Fedor's record is pretty padded. You have to look back at heavyweight MMA at the time though, he was beating the elite, there was no better heavyweights in the UFC at that time. The only guy he never faced in Pride that i always thought would give him problems was Josh Barnett, but for whatever reason it never happened. Another point to make is that it isn't just the names Fedor beat or how many people he beat, it's how f'n easily he beat them. I can count on one hand the amount of times Fedor was in any kind of danger...3 for my money. Once against Fujita, once against Randleman and once against Mark Hunt, and two of them might just be a case of looking worse than they actually were. Other than that it was total domination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
METAL ON METAL Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I saw the Rogers fight, and whatever could be said about him afterwards is irrelevant concerning Fedor, IMO - he fucking broke Fedor's nose with the first punch of the match. For someone to not only keep going, but actually come out the next round-on punching and get a knock-out hit against a massive fucker who can do that to you means you've got to be good. Â I'm not saying Fedor wasn't good, I'm just saying he wasn't the greatest ever. Â Fighters have fought and won with much worse injuries, so I wouldn't really class yours as a good example. Franklin broke his right arm against Chuck but then KO'ed Liddell using said broken arm. Scott Smith KO'ed Pete Sell straight after having broken his ribs. Fighters constantly continue fighting for multiple rounds with broken hands (Faber, Cruz ect.), which is a hell of alot harder to do than a broken nose. Â As I said, Rogers lost to himself in that fight. His cardio is what made him lose, exactly the same as Carwin against Lesnar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 I'm not saying Fedor wasn't good, I'm just saying he wasn't the greatest ever. He's the greatest heavyweight ever. Although I don't think he'll be considered as such in 10 years time or so, but as things stand there's not been a better heavyweight in the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 7, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 7, 2011 I'm of that thinking too. People can say he was overrated or whatever and that's their opinion but to argue he's not the greatest heavyweight in MMA history you need to convince me who else is then. Â By that I don't mean who's better than him now in 2011. I mean who has had a better career at the weight and accomplished more and dominated for so long like Fedor did? There's guys who could maybe surpass what he's done in the future but no-one has yet and until they do Fedor is the greatest MMA HW of all time for me. Â As much as I'm a huge fan of Cain Velasquez are people really gonna say he's the greatest HW of all time after 9 fights? If not him then who else was greater than Fedor? Not being a cock I'm genuinely interested to hear who people would rate higher as the GOAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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