RING FOR A JOB

[King Pitcos]

It's the same deal in America too - there's plenty of shite shows in front of awful crowds that we don't hear about, much like almost nobody outside of our little bubble will have heard of PTW. For every ROH and Dragon Gate USA, there'll be a bunch of shows full of crap. I went to a Steve Corino run show a couple of months back that drew a hefty crowd of twenty, and there was some decent talent on, but also a lot of rubbish. I do hate the "BritWres is rubbish" rant that always comes up, because it really is just indy wrestling as a whole.

But nobody starts threads every week asking how to get American indie wrestling back on television. BritWres is the more relevant topic on here, and its shitness isn't negated by saying "well there's shit wrestling in America as well." Plus America has got other, far more prominent wrestling that does rise way, way above the shitarsery.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

But nobody starts threads every week asking how to get American indie wrestling back on television. BritWres is the more relevant topic on here, and its shitness isn't negated by saying "well there's shit wrestling in America as well." Plus America has got other, far more prominent wrestling that does rise way, way above the shitarsery.

This is what I'm getting at. The United States has a bigger goal to reach for what with the sheer amount of wrestling schools ran by people with connections to get you a WWE tryout and there's plenty of companies with local television to at least raise you to a level where your foam fingers are selling. There are a few national wrestling promotions that can get you exposure and give you opportunities of making a good living. What does this country have? Supershows and PeteyW.

[Big Rob]

It's the same deal in America too - there's plenty of shite shows in front of awful crowds that we don't hear about, much like almost nobody outside of our little bubble will have heard of PTW. For every ROH and Dragon Gate USA, there'll be a bunch of shows full of crap. I went to a Steve Corino run show a couple of months back that drew a hefty crowd of twenty, and there was some decent talent on, but also a lot of rubbish. I do hate the "BritWres is rubbish" rant that always comes up, because it really is just indy wrestling as a whole.

But nobody starts threads every week asking how to get American indie wrestling back on television. BritWres is the more relevant topic on here, and its shitness isn't negated by saying "well there's shit wrestling in America as well." Plus America has got other, far more prominent wrestling that does rise way, way above the shitarsery.

Well that's because every shitty indy company and it's dog in America is on some kind of TV, due to their TV system being way different to ours, with local stations and the like. Comparatively, there probably isn't that much difference in the amount of credible companies in the US than there is here, especially since you could argue that WWE counts as much for the UK as it does the US - BritWres companies are always going to be compared to it, and they regularly tour over here.

 

And yeah, obviously the British stuff is more "on topic" in this thread, it just kind of tires me to see British wrestling getting sole ownership to the shitarse label time and time again.

 

What does this country have? Supershows and PeteyW.

All Star Wrestling too, which is pretty much the gateway for most British guys who go on to work for WWE, complete with at least one WWE talent scout on their roster. Couple that with the holiday camp circuit, and if you're good enough - you can make a living on just wrestling on an indy level, which is next to impossible in the US, and which is why many US guys like to tour over here.

[Dirty Eddie]

But nobody starts threads every week asking how to get American indie wrestling back on television. BritWres is the more relevant topic on here, and its shitness isn't negated by saying "well there's shit wrestling in America as well." Plus America has got other, far more prominent wrestling that does rise way, way above the shitarsery.

This is what I'm getting at. The United States has a bigger goal to reach for what with the sheer amount of wrestling schools ran by people with connections to get you a WWE tryout and there's plenty of companies with local television to at least raise you to a level where your foam fingers are selling. There are a few national wrestling promotions that can get you exposure and give you opportunities of making a good living. What does this country have? Supershows and PeteyW.

 

 

Ian, I disagreed with your suggestion that the likes of Petey running shows is indicative of how poor the overall Brit scene is.

 

I don't think that's fair at all. The comparison to the USA was just to point out that any wrestling scene (or any other scene really) has shitarses at the bottom, because it's easy to run shitty shows with cheap/free talent. It's less of a damaging thing in the USA because as you and others have rightly said, there are the big time companies like WWE and TNA on proper TV and lots of smaller (OK quality) Indys with local TV.

 

I'm sure if you frequented US wrestling fan forums there would be plenty of similar "name and shame" threads for local cuntrag promoters out there too.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Comparatively, there probably isn't that much difference in the amount of credible companies in the US than there is here, especially since you could argue that WWE counts as much for the UK as it does the US - BritWres companies are always going to be compared to it, and they regularly tour over here.

Does Noah, TNA and Ring of Honor count for us as well, since they have came over here a few times in the last 5 years or so. I think that adds to the argument. That a promotion like TNA, who has a hard time drawing in their home country with Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett headlining the shows, can come over here and draw massive houses. People want to see stars and good production values and a nights entertainment. If Kongo Kev's on the bill, your not going to see Beer Money anywhere on the card.

 

I don't think that's fair at all. The comparison to the USA was just to point out that any wrestling scene (or any other scene really) has shitarses at the bottom, because it's easy to run shitty shows with cheap/free talent. It's less of a damaging thing in the USA because as you and others have rightly said, there are the big time companies like WWE and TNA on proper TV and lots of smaller (OK quality) Indys with local TV.

I dont doubt it for a second, but there are also a lot of terrible rock bands that lived in the same area as The Beatles in the 1960s, but the success rate of that part of Liverpool was far greater than the shit that comes out of Luxembourg. In other words, the United States at least have some success stories to back up the argument that the shit promotions dont hit the radar. They have WWE, they have TNA, they have popular independent promotions like Ring of Honor, Chikara and others I'm struggling to mention because I avoid them as well. My point is, its been well over 20 years since this country lost television, and even the bigger companies that come out of the ashes have a tendency to be a massive joke. Everyone seems to stab each other in the back, whether its through coming on internet forums under fake names or burying their own talent and staff on facebook or not delivering a wrestling ring or bomb scares. You name it, its happened in this country. Nobody works together, the talented grapplers cant leave fast enough and every time it looks like there is some decent wrestling about, it all fucks up in the end. How many next big thing promotions have their been in this country? I'm not saying there isnt some good promoters, good talent, good trainers or good people in the British Wrestling scene, but I am saying there shit more than out weighs the small minority. When the editor countries largest wrestling magazine thinks it would be business killing to put an advert for British Wrestling in his magazine, you know your reputation is on its arse.

[Whiskey_Jim]

Bit disappointed to see that this has got a negative response, it was just a way to get people interested in learning to wrestle, or be involved around the business; in the same way that others advertise, and just on a larger scale. Didn't realise it'd get that much attention to be honest. But on the bright side, we now have a mainstream television station, and show, looking to film a piece on this.

 

To all of you on here concerned, which I understand : I will be looking for this to be as positive as possible, and am most certainly NOT trying to damage the business; and I'd like to clarify that now, as oddly enough, I'm starting to care what you guys think as I'm getting older. I'd ask your patience and leniency on the subject, as it's being done with the right intentions.

 

Well, bar Nick. But no one cares about Nick anyway.

Why on earth would you be surprised that this would recieve negative feedback? Your shows are awful because of hiring tactics like this. You have guys working for you who cant work a lick who are either fat or skinny and all out of shape and you are detrimental to wrestling in this country because you put on terrible shows and ruin towns for decent promoters by applying negative stigma to wrestling in the eyes of the locals. Brian Dixon makes money by only hiring the best, Sanjay Bagga makes less money but still some money by hiring some of the best, FWA makes money by hiring the best on a lesser schedule.... you do none of the above and you certainly wont start by looking in the job centre for workers. Please, just stop and go home.

[Big Rob]

but I am saying there shit more than out weighs the small minority.

Obviously this wouldn't in the States, because you've got TNA and WWE on TV, and whether you like the product or not, it at least looks good. There's no real scientific way of measuring if the good outweighs the bad over here, and granted, repeated relaunches of 1PW and mind-numbing shite like that one show on that one Sky channel and the latest PTW offering don't do the scene here any favours. But there are a whole lot of companies here running shows to a decent level of success. We're also on a board that thrives on negativity (not saying that as criticism, by the way) - All Star pulling in a couple of thousand would barely get a mention in their thread, whereas a stupid advert at a job centre has already garnered four pages of comments.

 

From what I've seen, and also head from people I know in the US, it seems as though the good stuff in the US indys would beat our best stuff in terms of crowd sizes at least, but there does seem to be a real drop-off in the states where you go from several hundred at a ROH or Dragon Gate show, and then go to bottoming out at 20 for World-1 or 40 for OVW. When I've mentioned to friends in the States that I've been at indy shows with over a thousand people in the crowd in the UK, they've been amazed.

[Dirty Eddie]

Comparatively, there probably isn't that much difference in the amount of credible companies in the US than there is here, especially since you could argue that WWE counts as much for the UK as it does the US - BritWres companies are always going to be compared to it, and they regularly tour over here.

Does Noah, TNA and Ring of Honor count for us as well, since they have came over here a few times in the last 5 years or so. I think that adds to the argument. That a promotion like TNA, who has a hard time drawing in their home country with Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett headlining the shows, can come over here and draw massive houses. People want to see stars and good production values and a nights entertainment. If Kongo Kev's on the bill, your not going to see Beer Money anywhere on the card.

 

I don't think that's fair at all. The comparison to the USA was just to point out that any wrestling scene (or any other scene really) has shitarses at the bottom, because it's easy to run shitty shows with cheap/free talent. It's less of a damaging thing in the USA because as you and others have rightly said, there are the big time companies like WWE and TNA on proper TV and lots of smaller (OK quality) Indys with local TV.

I dont doubt it for a second, but there are also a lot of terrible rock bands that lived in the same area as The Beatles in the 1960s, but the success rate of that part of Liverpool was far greater than the shit that comes out of Luxembourg. In other words, the United States at least have some success stories to back up the argument that the shit promotions dont hit the radar. They have WWE, they have TNA, they have popular independent promotions like Ring of Honor, Chikara and others I'm struggling to mention because I avoid them as well. My point is, its been well over 20 years since this country lost television, and even the bigger companies that come out of the ashes have a tendency to be a massive joke. Everyone seems to stab each other in the back, whether its through coming on internet forums under fake names or burying their own talent and staff on facebook or not delivering a wrestling ring or bomb scares. You name it, its happened in this country. Nobody works together, the talented grapplers cant leave fast enough and every time it looks like there is some decent wrestling about, it all fucks up in the end. How many next big thing promotions have their been in this country? I'm not saying there isnt some good promoters, good talent, good trainers or good people in the British Wrestling scene, but I am saying there shit more than out weighs the small minority. When the editor countries largest wrestling magazine thinks it would be business killing to put an advert for British Wrestling in his magazine, you know your reputation is on its arse.

 

 

You are entirely correct when you talk of all the silly backstabbing and "next big thing" companies. Can't argue with any of that.

 

However, a fair few RoH wrestlers and probably most of the Chikara crew have other jobs. All Star runs a full time roster than make their sole living from wrestling. If anything, other than the local TV deals (which realistically, anyone can get in America), most US Indys are far behind ASW is terms of how often they run and the houses they draw.

 

There are probably over a dozen solid to very good small promotions in the UK. the likes of IPW-UK, XWA etc that get good reviews and draw respectable crowds. LND probably draw better and run more shows than most of the better regarded US Indys too.

 

I genuinely don't think that the rubbish outweighs the good in the UK scene. It's just that the US TV situation is so different to America, and therefore the exposure these good companies can get is very limited with the budgets they have.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

The thing with All Star is that it bases their whole show around the promise of "Big Time American Wrestling" and brings over Gangrel who usually slaps Robbie Brookside about until the usual DQ lose. That isnt a good advert for home grown talent from where I'm sitting. I always go to All Star when its in the area as well. Me and my mate go, and he's not into British Wrestling at all. We once saw Rikishi on the poster and usually go to see the imports. You only have to see the All Star audience to see the fans they are attracting. I've never seen an All Star show yet that doesnt have the ring announcer say "and remember we have Rey Mysterio masks at the table" and "WWE figures cheaper than in the shops. We have M .... V ... P!!! (cheers!), The Undertaker! (Louder cheers!) and John Cena (empty empire because they are already at the table)". All Star has decent houses based on promoting American stars, rip-offs like the SmackDown Warrior (Masion Ryan doing a Batista gimmick) and American Dragon (Daniel Bryan in a mask doing a 619), an American style card and the promise of buying Batista's figures. It draws well because its basically an American promotion from by some bloke from Birkenhead.

[Whiskey_Jim]

The thing with All Star is that it bases their whole show around the promise of "Big Time American Wrestling" and brings over Gangrel who usually slaps Robbie Brookside about until the usual DQ lose. That isnt a good advert for home grown talent from where I'm sitting. I always go to All Star when its in the area as well. Me and my mate go, and he's not into British Wrestling at all. We once saw Rikishi on the poster and usually go to see the imports. You only have to see the All Star audience to see the fans they are attracting. I've never seen an All Star show yet that doesnt have the ring announcer say "and remember we have Rey Mysterio masks at the table" and "WWE figures cheaper than in the shops. We have M .... V ... P!!! (cheers!), The Undertaker! (Louder cheers!) and John Cena (empty empire because they are already at the table)". All Star has decent houses based on promoting American stars, rip-offs like the SmackDown Warrior (Masion Ryan doing a Batista gimmick) and American Dragon (Daniel Bryan in a mask doing a 619), an American style card and the promise of buying Batista's figures. It draws well because its basically an American promotion from by some bloke from Birkenhead.

I would still rather see Mastiff, T-Bone, Spud, Spitfire, Whiplash, James Mason and some imports than any of the shite being put on in PTW.

[Dirty Eddie]

The thing with All Star is that it bases their whole show around the promise of "Big Time American Wrestling" and brings over Gangrel who usually slaps Robbie Brookside about until the usual DQ lose. That isnt a good advert for home grown talent from where I'm sitting. I always go to All Star when its in the area as well. Me and my mate go, and he's not into British Wrestling at all. We once saw Rikishi on the poster and usually go to see the imports. You only have to see the All Star audience to see the fans they are attracting. I've never seen an All Star show yet that doesnt have the ring announcer say "and remember we have Rey Mysterio masks at the table" and "WWE figures cheaper than in the shops. We have M .... V ... P!!! (cheers!), The Undertaker! (Louder cheers!) and John Cena (empty empire because they are already at the table)". All Star has decent houses based on promoting American stars, rip-offs like the SmackDown Warrior (Masion Ryan doing a Batista gimmick) and American Dragon (Daniel Bryan in a mask doing a 619), an American style card and the promise of buying Batista's figures. It draws well because its basically an American promotion from by some bloke from Birkenhead.

 

 

I don't personally enjoy ASW much, but ultimately they know their audience, know what they want, and have success in selling that to them on a repeat customer basis.

 

Half of the more successful (but not so internet-reliant) US Indy shows are advertised around "Former WWE Star Scotty 2 Hotty" or whatever. That's just a part of smart business in a world where any WWE guy you can find is some type of (even small) draw for fans.

 

LDN don't sell themselves as American Wrestling and they draw good crowds.

 

People that actually promote (rather than just call themselves a Promoter) are able to draw good crowds.

 

People like those in charge of PTW have no right to call themselves Promoters.

[Big Rob]

It draws well because its basically an American promotion from by some bloke from Birkenhead.

Which consistantly draws better than all bar the top couple of US companies. They do have some cheap and cheerful WWE style gimmicks (although I never saw Dragon do a 619 over here, and wearing the mask here was his own-doing and also something he wore early on in his career whilst in the States), I'd freely admit that. But I think it's quite unfair to say that it draws well because it's essentially an American company - there's a whole lot of effort gone into the promotion of it, and maintaining good relationships with a vast amount of venues. And it'd obviously a fine example of positivity in British wrestling, since US guys want to come here be able to work every day of the week, WWE sent at least one guy back to All Star to learn how to work the UK style and their UK talent scout also works out of All Star.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Which consistantly draws better than all bar the top couple of US companies.

Thats my point though. They have to find an audience through the success of an American promotion, thus showcasing what British talent there is on the back of it. I've never said that there isnt talent in British wrestling or that there isnt an audience for wrestling in this country. There clearly is. I just think its a shame that the most successful promotion has to go down the "American Wrestling" route to get my attention and the attention of a casual follower, through promotion towards a none home grown product. I even said in my initial post that its a shame for the really good British promotions to have to suffer through the likes of PTW. There's a lot of crap in the US, but the newsletters and the internet are directed towards the ROH's and the Chikara's. The Observer is filled with promoting US indy wrestling. Where as this country, the only news I ever hear about is the bad shit. 1PW and PTW and what have you. I bet more people on here know about Stainiforth than they do about most BritWres personalities. He's the new Alex Shane on here. Everyone hates him, but by the same token everyone knows him.

[King Pitcos]

I actually buy a lot of my wrestling figures from ASW, I've just realised.

[GPW Kristian Zane]

Bit disappointed to see that this has got a negative response, it was just a way to get people interested in learning to wrestle, or be involved around the business; in the same way that others advertise, and just on a larger scale. Didn't realise it'd get that much attention to be honest. But on the bright side, we now have a mainstream television station, and show, looking to film a piece on this.

 

To all of you on here concerned, which I understand : I will be looking for this to be as positive as possible, and am most certainly NOT trying to damage the business; and I'd like to clarify that now, as oddly enough, I'm starting to care what you guys think as I'm getting older. I'd ask your patience and leniency on the subject, as it's being done with the right intentions.

 

Well, bar Nick. But no one cares about Nick anyway.

Its just a way to get people in learning to wrestle? Seriously? Is that because you can't get people to attend your training sessions by advertising the training school at your shows because noone attends them? Surely it couldn't be that? People like you shouldn't have a say in how someone should be trained or be able to do something in the business anyway because you aren't actually any good at what you do and you think like a mark and marks do not make promoters.

 

Why don't you do the smart thing and just let someone else do it because literally EVERYONE else does it a damn sight better then you. Oh no sorry I can't have a go at you can I? Because you have "the right intentions".