Paid Members Dead Mike Posted June 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 I meant at trying to promote their events with storylines (useless at a one-off show), have in-ring characters such as commissioners/general managers (unnecessay filler) or worse put themselves in the mix as a character when the booking a straight-forward card of face vs heel matches will more than suffice for 100 people in a school hall. In short, having ideas above your station at the expense of the fundamentals. Dixon & Premier promotions have got it bang-on IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R is for Ric Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thanks for all opinions. Yes I'm a club promoter anyway by trade so it wouldn't be how wrestling events are usually promoted in the UK. It'd be very heavy student and music oriented with a big name DJ with a possible "Room two" party going on afterwards if the right venue is found. I've had a couple of DM's which I will get back to hopefully today so thanks to everyone who's put in there two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thanks for all opinions. Yes I'm a club promoter anyway by trade so it wouldn't be how wrestling events are usually promoted in the UK. It'd be very heavy student and music oriented with a big name DJ with a possible "Room two" party going on afterwards if the right venue is found. I've had a couple of DM's which I will get back to hopefully today so thanks to everyone who's put in there two cents. Â If that's the direction you're going, might want to speak to the owner of Lucha Britannia - he runs his events to a similar format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffy Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 'Different Vision'?? It's hardly a multi-national company with a TV product. Surely the only 'vision' at this level is putting on a night of matches, using the best talent available for your budget, starting & finishing on time, selling enough tickets to turn a profit & your audience going home happy. Â Well yes, but how you use the talent, which talent you use, which product you create to try and acheive those goals, that's the vision. Mark sloan and and brian dixon have the same goals you mentioned above, but completely differenet visions as to how they acheive. In closing, don't be such a pratt. Â Get fucked. Â Dixon's the most successful promoter in the UK & (from what I can tell) Mark Sloan specialises in bringing over exports to appeal to a niche fanbase of which he's got the market cornered. In both cases you're talking about established, successful promoters who have mastered the basics & then ventured into specific areas. A far cry from someone running his first gig or a pissant promotion selling tickets to a handful of people for every show. If more Britwres promoters concentrated on the fundamentals & spent less time worrying about their 'vision' (ie. Playing at being Vince) then maybe the vast majority of UK wrestling shows wouldn't be dogshit. Â Lol there's really no logic in what you're saying, different promotors put on different styles of shows, some may be more about hardcore, some may be more family orientated, some may be more old school. OK, lets not use sloan and dixon, let's use, say, IPW and the really old school one bagga does, they have a completely different vision, and they have done since day one. The basics, promoting the thing, paying the workers, sticking to a budget etc etc - they're all vital. But unless you're a complete moron (and I have to say I do not discount the idea off hand at this point in your case) you must realise you still have to shape it into a coherent whole. And if all you're doing is putting on said matches with no booking and no thought to the overall feel and target market of the whole, then it will be dogshit. While I realise that having a vision of trying to put on a show like Vince without botherinng with the fundamentals is retarded, your view that's it's impossible to bring some vision to the show and get the fundamentals is even more retarded. Every promotor should have an idea of the type of product he wants to promote, the demographic he's aiming it towards, and away of making sure his product best reflects that demographic. That's his vision but it's also the fundamentals, and I'm sorry but suggesting that having a vision and an ultimate goal of the product you want to create is in some way detrimental to the running of a decent show is fucking moronic old chap, like really idiotic. Â Now you may say with some justification that some british wrestling concentrates on the vision without having an understanding of the basics and it fucks stuff up, and I'd be hard pressed to argue the point. But the vision isn't the problem there, the lack of understanding of the basics is. And again you'd have to be a little retarded not to get that. Â So, in short, please, try not to be such a pratt x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPW Kristian Zane Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I meant at trying to promote their events with storylines (useless at a one-off show), have in-ring characters such as commissioners/general managers (unnecessay filler) or worse put themselves in the mix as a character when the booking a straight-forward card of face vs heel matches will more than suffice for 100 people in a school hall. In short, having ideas above your station at the expense of the fundamentals. Dixon & Premier promotions have got it bang-on IMO. The only exception to this is if you gradually work your storylines in over time. I would never start with storylines or general managers or whatever but it is possible if you develop characters over time. Eventually you wind up with people not just keen to see the wrestling but also to see what happens next in a story but it doesn't happen over night. Unfortunately as you say a lot of places throw this at the crowd from the off which kinda works against them really because then you find you are not really booking for the audience you are just booking for yourself and kinda force feeding the audience what you want to see not what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 The divergence of vision is a huge part of the problem, I think. Â Yes, IPW and LDN are radically different promotions, but just how many different styles of promotion can there be? Certainly not as many as there are promotions around the country, and this is why I think ego comes into it. Â No offence to Dunny or Toga, but really: what is the real difference between NGW and DPW? They seem to book similar rosters, give or take a few, and there doesn't seem to be any intrinsic or significant difference in the "feel" or demographic they're going for, so what's stopping them from co-operating to make a promotion with a wider remit and wider geographical base? Same with, say, FSW and GPW, or the many promotions dotted around the Midlands. Â Also, what about Scotland? Sorry if it sounds ignorant, but what's the fundamental difference between SWA, BCW and PBW, and why would it not be better for them to merge to form a ScotWres super-promotion? Â The only promotions I've heard of who sound like they probably couldn't merge with others on the basis of style or vision are All Star, Premier, LDN, Triple X, ICW and the now-defunct Sliced Bread Wrestling. Also, all the shitarse ones - not because they're different, but because they will most likely bring nothing to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayne Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 With FutureShock, XWA and Grand Pro all being mentioned earlier, and then the comment of merging, followed by the "playing vince" and the Stories VS one off shows front, i'd like to just quickly point out that whilst al three of the North West promotions initially mentioned do indeed run a similar, family orientated-storied product. But all three promotions run a central venue in a distinct area with a core group of excellent wrestlers working for many of us... Â We all run stories yes, but thats because we all have a core regular audience that come back for the stories and the characters. Those that run the three companies all have distinct and clear creative styles and a stand alone product that regularly sells out each of our venues. Â We work together mainly in an effort to give the wrestlers more exposure with in the three core audiences, but merging all three companies would kill the very thing that makes the three products work. We'd have three venues, three areas, one roster. The stories that draw our crowds in would have to be shelved, as only a small group of fans currently travel to all three venues (the current Triple header and ticket offer is designed to encourage a few more... see the respective events threads for this weekend please) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reverend Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I got three compnents for you:  1) Don't  2) Do  3) It!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members MichaelScarn Posted June 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 Just to follow up on a point raised a couple of times about getting experience. How receptive do people think promotors will be, to taking on someone who just asks if they can assist with a couple of shows without being paid, for the experience? Â Will they think, sod that, why would I put effort into someone who could be serious competition. Worse case, someone who could go it alone, balls it up, and tarnish my name saying 'well promotor x showed me how to do it this way? Â Will they just use the person as someone who will go out on the promotional side (putting up flyers etc), seting up the ring and arena, and not let them into the more juicy side such as booking shows/talent, arranging insurance, sorting the venue out etc? I know that people getting into any aspect in wrestling shoud pay their dues (and I personaly agree with that) to some extent by putting the ring up, and doing some proper graft, but then to get some of the experience it maight take time perhaps? Â Hopefully no one takes the mick here, but as an example its been an ambition of mine to do commentary (so not exactly promoting shows, but working in the industry). Would be my dream full-time job, or even something i'd love to do just once. Whats stopping me however, is that I have always thought that even the UK scene is something that would be so hard to get your foot in the door of. Wrestling seems to be very closed shop. Would someone like me get laughed out of the building, just showing up and wanting to climb the ladder? Would they just be taken advantage of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 Just to follow up on a point raised a couple of times about getting experience. How receptive do people think promotors will be, to taking on someone who just asks if they can assist with a couple of shows without being paid, for the experience? Will they think, sod that, why would I put effort into someone who could be serious competition. Worse case, someone who could go it alone, balls it up, and tarnish my name saying 'well promotor x showed me how to do it this way?  Will they just use the person as someone who will go out on the promotional side (putting up flyers etc), seting up the ring and arena, and not let them into the more juicy side such as booking shows/talent, arranging insurance, sorting the venue out etc? I know that people getting into any aspect in wrestling shoud pay their dues (and I personaly agree with that) to some extent by putting the ring up, and doing some proper graft, but then to get some of the experience it maight take time perhaps?  Hopefully no one takes the mick here, but as an example its been an ambition of mine to do commentary (so not exactly promoting shows, but working in the industry). Would be my dream full-time job, or even something i'd love to do just once. Whats stopping me however, is that I have always thought that even the UK scene is something that would be so hard to get your foot in the door of. Wrestling seems to be very closed shop. Would someone like me get laughed out of the building, just showing up and wanting to climb the ladder? Would they just be taken advantage of?  Wrestling's not the closed shop it used to be, which is both a negative and a positive. Means it's easier for shitarses who won't work it like a business to get in, but it also means talented people who would've been excluded and unutilised on the basis of the ridiculous paranoia that accompanied some of the "old school" can now have a chance to contribute and get something out of it.  Don't be put off - there's always an opportunity for different people, and any promoter worth his salt won't see it as "raising competition", because anyone with a brain knows that's how industries continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted June 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 This sounds like the ideal situation to be buying in a show from an established company and concentrating on the promoting of the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowdpuller Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 This sounds like the ideal situation to be buying in a show from an established company and concentrating on the promoting of the event. Â Spot on. Â Im sure he could contact all star (who do sell shows) and see what he could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 This sounds like the ideal situation to be buying in a show from an established company and concentrating on the promoting of the event. Â Spot on. Â Im sure he could contact all star (who do sell shows) and see what he could do. Â Does this mean paying the existing promotion to bring their ring, roster, booking, promotions name etc and just booking the venue and doing the advertising yourself? If so, that does sound like an ideal way to test the waters for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowdpuller Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 This sounds like the ideal situation to be buying in a show from an established company and concentrating on the promoting of the event. Â Spot on. Â Im sure he could contact all star (who do sell shows) and see what he could do. Â Does this mean paying the existing promotion to bring their ring, roster, booking, promotions name etc and just booking the venue and doing the advertising yourself? If so, that does sound like an ideal way to test the waters for yourself. Â Yes. You pay for the show upfront, then all your worries are about trying to get people in the door to turn a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 1, 2011 This sounds like the ideal situation to be buying in a show from an established company and concentrating on the promoting of the event. Â Spot on. Â Im sure he could contact all star (who do sell shows) and see what he could do. Â Does this mean paying the existing promotion to bring their ring, roster, booking, promotions name etc and just booking the venue and doing the advertising yourself? If so, that does sound like an ideal way to test the waters for yourself. Â Yes. You pay for the show upfront, then all your worries are about trying to get people in the door to turn a profit. Â Yeah, but it's a bit more than that. Â I learned the hard way that it's not just about promoting: you need to know your venue and your area. The one show I tried to promote, which was a bought show, I lost a load of cash because, despite flyering, postering and putting ads in the local press, the venue I ran wouldn't allow me to sell refreshments, had almost no parking, and the area I ran in (although there was no way I could've known this) had a fucking local residents' street carnival in the next road. Â And another thing: don't put all your faith into postering. Even some of the more "professional" promoters will rip down a rival's, or get their trainees to do it so they can have plausible deniability. Happened to me. Â One last tip: try and broaden your revenue streams - don't rely on the gate to make you money. Sell refreshments, and where possible, merchandise as well. Â I'm not a promoter, but even I managed to pick up a few valuable lessons before I realised I wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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