The Far-Right - An Emerging Force In European Politics?

[David]

Did anyone catch Newsnight last night? Paxman put in a particularly poor performance against the EDL leader Stephen Lennon. He pretty much had fuck all for the guy except some unsubstantiated "facts" about Facebook photos and so forth.

 

Why is it that whenever we get one of these far-right guys on a political show they never get taken apart as well as they should?

[Dead Mike]

I didn't see Newsnight so can't comment but I don't know about them 'never getting taken apart'? Griffin got made to look pretty stupid on Question Time.

[David]

I didn't see Newsnight so can't comment but I don't know about them 'never getting taken apart'? Griffin got made to look pretty stupid on Question Time.

When I say "taken apart" I mean having their policies and viewpoints challenged and intelligently argued against, not simply being outshouted & constantly cut off.

 

Griffin made a "challenge" to Jack Straw to have a one on one debate on anything that Straw wanted, with Dimbleby hosting. Straw refused. This is the kind of thing I want to see happen. Not just someone constantly trying to talk over them and cut them off like Paxman tried last night with that chav in a suit.

 

I even saw a few petitions & calls for the BBC to change their mind and throw the guy off the air from certain quarters. Thats worked in the past, hasn't it?

[Deaq]

When I say "taken apart" I mean having their policies and viewpoints challenged and intelligently argued against, not simply being outshouted & constantly cut off.

 

Griffin made a "challenge" to Jack Straw to have a one on one debate on anything that Straw wanted, with Dimbleby hosting. Straw refused. This is the kind of thing I want to see happen. Not just someone constantly trying to talk over them and cut them off like Paxman tried last night with that chav in a suit.

 

I even saw a few petitions & calls for the BBC to change their mind and throw the guy off the air from certain quarters. Thats worked in the past, hasn't it?

 

I do agree with pretty much all of this. It really annoys me when they have somebody with extreme views on 1 of these shows and rather then try and deconstruct there views just shout over them. It's like watching something off Jerry Springer. People like Griffin and thd EDL have a following be it right or wrong, I would love for a challenge style debate, its a way of maybe reaching out to backers of the EDL and Griffin and having a good chance of switching there allegiance to a party that is taken more seriously. Shouting over them does nothing but give them ammo on why they did so bad on said shows.

[David]

Just for the record I'd like to see both Nick Griffin and that EDL guy in a one on one debate with Stephen Fry.

[Vito]

Just for the record I'd like to see both Nick Griffin and that EDL guy in a one on one debate with Stephen Fry.

They'd be too scared of "catching Gay" to even turn up.

[Richie Freebird]

Did anyone hear Tommy Robinson on BBC Radio 2's Jeremy Vine show today?

[David]

Did anyone hear Tommy Robinson on BBC Radio 2's Jeremy Vine show today?

Yes. Once again he was given too much time to speak without a coherent argument being put against him. The EDL must be more than pleased with their media round this week.

[Richie Freebird]

Yes. Once again he was given too much time to speak without a coherent argument being put against him. The EDL must be more than pleased with their media round this week.

 

Again? He

[d-d-d-dAz]

The 'other' side of the EDL argument is Islamic fundamentalism, and there views don't get a mainstream airing either.

 

The idea that they're an ignored side of argument is absolute arse. The EDL/BNP considers the argument as existing within the same lexicon as the immigration debate between the mainstream political parties. It doesn't. It is the ying to the Islamic fundamentalist yang, and Abu Hamzu doesn't get on Question Time regularly either.

 

That said, I do believe that within democracy the best way to expose ignorant, extremist views is to give them their proper airing, and have reasonable people pick them apart.

[Richie Freebird]

That said, I do believe that within democracy the best way to expose ignorant, extremist views is to give them their proper airing, and have reasonable people pick them apart.

 

That is a very sensible statement, and should be applied as stringently to both sides of this particular debate, thus exposing the floors in both extremes of the argument.

[Loki]

I disagree with the assessment of Nick Griffin on Question Time. Though some of the panel did themselves no favours with their hysterics, he personally came across hugely badly, and the BNP have been on a slide ever since.

 

I don't actually think the poll is particularly valid. I can't see a separation between far-right politics and violence/fascist imagery. If you take those things away, and the racism and bigotry, you're just left with plain old right wing politics.

 

The far right struggles to get a foothold in Britain because of our country's long-standing values. It was true in the 30s, the 70s and it's true now. British people are innately pluralist, borne out of long centuries of religious and then political struggle. As Kipling said ""The Saxon never means anything seriously till he talks about justice and right."

 

Where we've gone wrong in the last 15 or 20 years is that mainstream politicians are reluctant to talk about the issues that people have legitimate concerns about - immigration levels, integration, the rise of the long-term unemployed white class. These are social changes that have generally been swept under the carpet as vaguely embarrassing. The more the main political parties talk about them honestly, the less credence people will give to the BNP or EDL.

[David]

Where we've gone wrong in the last 15 or 20 years is that mainstream politicians are reluctant to talk about the issues that people have legitimate concerns about - immigration levels, integration, the rise of the long-term unemployed white class. These are social changes that have generally been swept under the carpet as vaguely embarrassing. The more the main political parties talk about them honestly, the less credence people will give to the BNP or EDL.

That's a pretty sound evaluation of the situation, Loki.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I don't actually think the poll is particularly valid. I can't see a separation between far-right politics and violence/fascist imagery. If you take those things away, and the racism and bigotry, you're just left with plain old right wing politics.

 

Nonsense.

 

Currently, post-crash, anti-immigration stylings have shone through in mainstream conservatives but for the last twenty years, since the Thatcher/Reagan revolution, mainstream right wing politics have been overwhelmingly in favour for free flows of immigration for economic purposes, which is far from far-right racism/fascism as you can get.

 

The left tend to forget that the right is just as rich and diverse, and their ranks are divided amongst those that are pro-immigratrion/anti-immigration; liberal economists/mercantilists; internationalist/nationalist.

 

Just look at the increasingly cuddly Ken Clarke, he's as far from your characterisation of a right winger as possible.

 

You might think they're mistaken. Doesn't mean there any different in make-up from the left.

[Loki]

I don't get your point. Of course there are pro-immigration right wing politicians. But there's also a healthy body of generally anti-immigration right-wingers too. It's a broad church, as you said.