General politics discussion thread

[Van Dammer]

It would appear that at least one of those pesky student protester-types got what for;

 

A 20-year-old student probably acted like an immature willy and his mother cries foul.

Source: The Guardian

 

Fixed.

[Yoghurt]

Teachers and Student groups are in desperate need of taking public measure to distance themselves from the violent socialist nutcases that attach themselves to the NUS. This violent socialist element has ruined any chance of progress with violence and vandalism. They need to arrest their figureheads and jail them for a very long time. The students were fine and are treat fine by the police.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Yoghurt

[Psygnosis]

In a rather amusing twist that girl/guy swinging on the Cenotaph is none other than David Gilmour's son Charlie!

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...s-war-dead.html

[The King Of Swing]

That is actually pretty funny.

[SpursRiot2012]

David, I don't think anybody would agree with police bashing people over the head with their trunchons for no reason. I also don't think that anybody would agree with police bashing people over the head of their trunchons for trying to "leave the area." I also also don't think that anybody would agree with police bashing people over the head with their trunchons even if those people were being violently disorderly. However, as one of the few people on this forum who seemed to advocating something beyond the normal type of protest a while back, don't you think that something like this was bound to happen? Perhaps if there were not so many people out with the specific intention of starting trouble, stuff like that wouldn't happen?

 

That being said, if it were to turn out that this student *was* assaulted by a police officer, I would hope and expect that the officer be held accountable.

 

Also I think you should lose the attitude. I know it might sound dodgy to speak of "attitude" when it comes to posting on a forum but you (and, surprisingly, Lister) have it. As well as King of Swing but I expect nothing less from one of my picks for Dolt this year.

Edited December 11, 2010 by SmokeSoapBar

[SpursRiot2012]

And the worst part is this: a whole heap of people pissed off that a bunch of politicians (in this case, the Lib Dems) lied to them. Oh, wow, really? A poltician told a lie? Did not see that one coming.

[Happ Hazzard]

It's amazing how out of touch the Guardian is now with the general public. Are there really enough students and other academics (and I imagine even many of those think the coverage has been ridiculously partisan) to keep the newspaper in business?

 

BTW, NUS president Aaron Porter cares so much about the "students from low income households that will be put off University by the new fees" that he wrote to Vince Cable to propose that grants be cut by 61% in order to keep fees low for middle-class students. The protests are a joke. Just the middle-classes pissed off that their privileges are being eroded.

[Vamp]

The simple truth about the violence of the streets is this, its not soley anyone's fault. I think the media, both left and right, is looking to point the finger at specific groups and go "yeah, its all their fault" but its pretty obvious who should get the blame for the violence on the streets; the Government for lying and then not being able to win people over through rational arguments, the rioters who should never have gone to that level of violence, the police who have made questionable decisions from the start, the media who have shown that the only way to get so much attention is to be violent and controversial and those who have given any money to the media which continues, on both sides of the political fence, to be nothing short of awful.

 

So it isn't those 'bastard' Tories who are to blame, or those 'lying, treacherous' Lib Dems, or those 'sulky middle class' students, the violence on the streets of our nation's captial is essentially the fault of our entire country (or at least those over the age of 15 or so). People arn't going to like admitting it, and I dare say that my view will be met of "oh, how is it my fault", but it is. We've had, in the past two years or so, an expert come out and explain how the reporting of murders has celebrated murders to the point where it can be seen as appealing to certain people, and what he said made a lot of sense, and there's not a single person who can rationally argue that the student protests would have gotten this much attention if they didn't act so violently. The media has encouraged it, and we've all supported the way the media have been and will continue to do so. Not that I condone people who have used violence to get attention, personally I'd rather people used sheer numbers and words to fight their battles, but I'm certainly not shocked (and nor should any rational person be) that people felt that violence was the only way of getting their message across.

 

So there you go, that's the violence explained. There's no one section of sociey to pin this all on. Even if you do agree with the government's policy I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue that they did a very good job of getting their message across. People will no doubt argue this with "oh, well, these sulky students just put their fingers in their ears and didn't listen because they were too busy shouting' but in doing so they'll just be part of a rhetoric which has become a major problem with this country today; the fact that youngsters are constantly derided. The more and more you put down a section of society, the more and more you pin them as something, the more and more likely they are to take on your words, take on your comments and then throw them back at you, taking on those negative connotations and throwing them in your face. For years people have suggested that 'violent youngsters have taken over the streets at night' making them feel its unsafe to walk about town, the student protests ended with a mass of youngsters taking on that image and chanting about the streets being theirs.

 

The only part of this that has shocked me is this basic assumption that all students are middle class, or that it's only the middle class complaining. I'm a student from a working class background and I'm deeply concerned about the new cost of tuition fees. My reason is simply this; I'm a Beaver leader and I know that one day those six year olds will grow up, and some of them will want to go to Uni and some of them won't, but I live in a working class area and I know for a fact that the new numbers that students will now have to face would have put me off from going to University. I would have had second thoughts. Some of those kids will have to see those figures and face such high debts and make a decision; go to Uni or not, I would hate it some of those kids decided not to persue their dreams because of those numbers. And I know for a fact that some of them will. That's not debatable. Of course the debts that the entire country must face have be taken into consideration, but there are those out there who have simply brushed any problems with all this aside as "they haven't got a point at all, this isn't going to stop anyone from going to uni, its just the middle class sulking" which simply isn't true. An entire country is, of course, more important that one simple person, it would be foolish to argue that it wasn't but we must all face the fact that the decision this government has made, a decision that by and large it seems this country agrees with, will stop certain people from doing what they want to do with their lives. This generation is guilty of stoping people from achieving their dreams. Whether it was the right decision or not will still be debated for a while but anybody who's tried to wipe their noses of this guilt must face those facts. Not all right decisions are easy, I grant you, and maybe there was no choice but the fact still remains, those who claim that it won't really have any effect are as blind as any leftist cries that education should have been made free.

[The King Of Swing]

Guardfian, Sun, Daily Mail it doersn't matter they are all just pandering to their own customer base and the sooner that the sheep realise that and actually start forming their own opinions instead of basing them off of "news" headline the better.

 

EDIT

 

Superb post Vamp.

Edited December 11, 2010 by The King Of Swing

[King Pitcos]

I wish they'd do more to protect useful degrees. Maths, Sciences, Engineering, Business and the rest that produce useful, productive skills. Making Music, Art, Drama students etcetera pay a lot more is fine, I have no problem with that but we desperately need more useful people leaving University.

I'd agree with this. The university system is cracked the way it is. A free and easy loan for any Reece, Kayleigh and Tyler to fund a three-year drinking and dressing up in shitty costumes binge. If they cut down (or never created) all the mickey mouse courses and establishments, this mess wouldn't have had to happen. For years and years now, the decision-makers have ruined the very purpose of higher education and done a disservice to working-class kids genuinely wanting to better themselves.

 

Most people I know from school and university got a degree then went back to working in a shop or call centre, or even started learning a trade that they could've started learning at sixteen. The degrees were meaningless, and achieved fuck all other than lining someone's pockets with the interest on the loan repayments. And even that was stupid, because half the people aren't making enough money to have to pay the loan back anyway. The ones protesting to keep the system the way it's been for the last while need a shlap. Whoever decided to "upgrade" the polytechnics in the first place needs raping.

 

It's no excuse for the police to go mashing young ones up, mind. If I was handed a cosh and virtual immunity, I'd cave in the skulls of students as well. But the police are probably the only people I hate more than I hate students, so fuck 'em. I hope they all kettle each other on a big bridge, and someone burns it down.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Pityinthecityofsin

[David]

That being said, if it were to turn out that this student *was* assaulted by a police officer, I would hope and expect that the officer be held accountable.

Just like the copper (who had previous before the event) who done in Ian Tomlinson?

 

Also I think you should lose the attitude. I know it might sound dodgy to speak of "attitude" when it comes to posting on a forum but you (and, surprisingly, Lister) have it. As well as King of Swing but I expect nothing less from one of my picks for Dolt this year. not prepared to drop

I'll have to apologise in advance then mate, as i'm not prepared to change my attitude. As always, i'm more than happy to debate any points with you though.

[Van Dammer]

That being said, if it were to turn out that this student *was* assaulted by a police officer, I would hope and expect that the officer be held accountable.

Just like the copper (who had previous before the event) who done in Ian Tomlinson?

 

Also I think you should lose the attitude. I know it might sound dodgy to speak of "attitude" when it comes to posting on a forum but you (and, surprisingly, Lister) have it. As well as King of Swing but I expect nothing less from one of my picks for Dolt this year. not prepared to drop

I'll have to apologise in advance then mate, as i'm not prepared to change my attitude. As always, i'm more than happy to debate any points with you though.

 

How do you know that?

[David]

How do you know that?

It was reported in various newspapers.

[SpursRiot2012]

Do you understand my meaning when I say "attitude," David?

 

Also, just out of curiosity, where have you been? You vanished for a time there.

[bobbins]

Do you understand my meaning when I say "attitude," David?

Yeah you mean "has a different opinion to me".