Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 21, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 21, 2018 16 hours ago, wandshogun09 said: I agree to some degree with Ebb's comments though. I think the fact that Fury is even fighting again at all at the moment is a moral victory of sorts. But I do think there are a lot of people overrating his résumé. Getting a decision off Klitschko in Germany was an amazing accomplishment whatever you thought of the fight itself or his performance. But the way that narrative has been retold over the years, you'd think Fury looked completely dominant. In reality it was a bit of a shit fight with neither man doing much and Fury doing just that bit more and hustling just enough to take more rounds than Wlad. He didn't school him like many retell it at all. That's not to take away from the achievement itself, but it just wasn't the Mayweather-esque domination it's been made out as. The second Chisora fight was one of the worst heavyweight fights I've ever endured as well. The times when Fury was exciting to watch was early in his career when he was more hittable and he was getting knocked on his arse by fat journeymen on Channel 5 and stuff. As he's got better, he's got better at avoiding that. But I certainly think the likes of Wilder and Joshua are more than equipped to land those shots. Tyson only wins those fights if he's able to spoil, move loads, hold a lot and fight really ugly. He's awkward to deal with and that helps him but 12 rounds is a long time to avoid a DW or AJ bomb. Perfectly put. Im actually gonna go back and re-watch the Klitschko fight to get a re-freshed view of it. I only ever saw the fight once. I think that fight is a little bit of a red herring when talking about the heavyweight title picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Maybe im off with it, but i get the general feel that post-Klitschko a large portion of the fanbase even got on board with Fury and started to believe the hype, it was understandable given the what he handled Klitschko, but the smoke and mirrors bit makes me wonder if people got a little carried away, i was part of that crowd myself, ive just stepped back and re-assessed it. Its easily done, the promoter and his channel are pushing him huge and thats their job but i was feeling a definite shift in public opinion going off what i was reading online. The reaction to Saturday itself was a mixed bag, many hated it and thought he looked poor. The Wilder sales pitch directly afterward glossed over the actual fight and gave everyone something to sink their teeth into. If Wilder wasn't there and there was no fight in November i think we would have seen a huge backlash toward Fury. Hes a unique nut to crack there's absolutely no doubt. Im just shocked that people were positive about what they saw Saturday night is all. Forget the "smoke and mirrors" nonsense, will you? There were no "smoke and mirrors," it's a ridiculous way to describe a pretty astounding win over a fighter who'd been undefeated for over ten fucking years. This shift in public opinion you're talking about, I don't know what you mean by it? Do you think that everyone should still have the "Hah! Fury's just a big, lumbering goon who's landed lucky over his entire career" chat? I see people discussing how he goes into a world title fight with a chance of winning, because, and I know this is a novel idea, he's a pretty decent boxer. The lad can scrap. He knows how to box, like him or not. He's not lucky, he's not all hype, he's a legit contender when he's on his game. 40 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: To be fair, i think thats what Wilder's had in the majority of his recent fights. Lets not forget he was getting handily outboxed by Gerald Washington. It's just a pretty special 'punchers chance' that hes got on him. It's a punchers chance nonetheless, and I'm not playing down how good a fighter he is, at all. He's a very good fighter, but styles make fights, and when you have a hard-hitting puncher who tends to toss the game plan out the window when things get going stepping in against a guy who deliberately goes about frustrating you, making you look bad, getting the crowd booing, tying you up on the inside, leaning on you and tiring you out, all the while slipping your punches and grinning at you like a goon while he uses his own fast hand speed to land scoring shots it's going to be a long night. This fight is far from a foregone conclusion, it's a very competitive fight featuring a fantastic contrast in styles. Throw in the "is he still the fighter he once was?" factor with Fury, along with the "he never lost his titles in the ring" angle and you have an awesome fight in the making between two top contenders. 22 minutes ago, PunkStep said: I've seen so many fans that claim to be boxing 'experts' (not on here mind, but the glorious world of social media) talk about how Fury is untouchable and head & shoulders above the rest of the heavyweight division, also claiming AJ is a fraud and Fury would outbox him with ease and win on points. Why would you even entertain those people though? they're the same types who will be posting that Fury is a chump and that Joshua would humiliate him and make him look silly, knocking him out in 0.0003 seconds of the first round. Edited August 21, 2018 by David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boytoy Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, PunkStep said: I've seen so many fans that claim to be boxing 'experts' (not on here mind, but the glorious world of social media) talk about how Fury is untouchable and head & shoulders above the rest of the heavyweight division, also claiming AJ is a fraud and Fury would outbox him with ease and win on points. Wouldn't be the first time that people have gone over the top on social media! Once a narrative sticks people don't seem to let go. If Fury does this to Wilder then there is an argument to be made but not until then. Wlad was an entirely different proposition and three years ago at that. Describing AJ as a fraud is ridiculous and he has defended brilliantly so far but the fight against Wlad still gives me more doubts than he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boytoy Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Perfectly put. Im actually gonna go back and re-watch the Klitschko fight to get a re-freshed view of it. I only ever saw the fight once. I think that fight is a little bit of a red herring when talking about the heavyweight title picture. The action was not exciting but it was totally unexpected and Wlad had been so dominant. It is up there with the best and performances on the road by a British boxer which is why Fury became such a big deal overnight and perception of him changed so much (perhaps too much). Then with Klitschko showing he was still able to trouble someone like AJ it kind of made it look even better in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I just wish that people would enjoy the current British heavyweight scene, as it's the best its been in years. We've got Fury, Joshua, Dillian Whyte, Bellew, Hughie Fury, Joe Joyce, Chisora and Dubois who also looks like he's going to be a force. I don't see what's so wrong in building up our fighters as much as possible, God knows the yanks have done it enough for their guys over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 21, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 21, 2018 It definitely did. I went back and read my thoughts on the fight from when it happened and it echoes what im saying now. I thought the fight was very weird, as if Wladamir was biding his time but ultimately ended up doing nothing. I credited Fury for managing to do shut Wlad. down and said it had to rank amongst the great british boxing achievement away from home, i also stand by that because a win is a win and you have to tie in Wladamir's history, but looking at Wladamir's punch stats (an average of 12 punches thrown per round, 6 landed), its easy to go back and pick it apart. Fury himself threw way under the heavyweight average. It was simply a shocking fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 21, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, David said: Forget the "smoke and mirrors" nonsense, will you? There were no "smoke and mirrors," it's a ridiculous way to describe a pretty astounding win over a fighter who'd been undefeated for over ten fucking years. Its not far off though is it Dave, the idea of hitting and not getting hit is the ideal point of the game, but fact that is there wasn't much hitting going on in that fight. Fury landed 86 punches over the course of 12 rounds, Klitschko landed just 52. Not alot happened outside of Fury dancing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted August 21, 2018 Moderators Share Posted August 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, David said: I just wish that people would enjoy the current British heavyweight scene, as it's the best its been in years. Was at it's best ever in the mid 2000s. A prime Skelton or true titan like Williams would cane all you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 21, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 21, 2018 It was only a matter of time before Butchi came in declaring his love for Matt Skelton. Actually add Martin Rogan and John McDermott to the list of Fury's world class victims...Butchi rates both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted August 21, 2018 Moderators Share Posted August 21, 2018 A former Commonwealth champ and a former number one contender for the British strap there respectively. When Deontay Wilder becomes British Heavyweight Champion then he can have the steam off my piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Will it be the steam though Butch, or will it be Smoke? And mirrors? Find out in the next double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Its not far off though is it Dave, the idea of hitting and not getting hit is the ideal point of the game, but fact that is there wasn't much hitting going on in that fight. Fury landed 86 punches over the course of 12 rounds, Klitschko landed just 52. Not alot happened outside of Fury dancing around. Again, that isn't a case of "smoke and mirrors," that's you and others who use that term being frustrated because neither guy smacked the other in the head enough to keep you interested. If you want to claim the fight was, in your opinion, boring, dull, not action-filled or whatever, then fine, but don't allow your own personal viewpoint of how a boxing match should play out to get in the way of what was a terrific boxing performance to do what 22 other fighters previously could not accomplish. The term "smoke and mirrors" is used to suggest that something is being done or is true, when it is not. That's blatantly not the case here. Fury won the fight, he implemented a game plan that the majority of heavyweights couldn't at that time. The average number of punches thrown matters not a jot in the context we're discussing the fight. No one is claiming that it's a fight of the year contender based on the in-ring action, are they? There's a good reason why boxers and those who operate within the sport (also known as those who know that they're talking about) see the win over Wlad as the perfect execution of a game plan to solve a Rubik's Cube of a heavyweight puzzle, while people on podcasts and commenting on social media (also known as those who don't really know what the fuck they're talking about) are spouting on about smoke and mirrors and average punch counts. You said it yourself, boxing is the art of "hit and don't get hit." The last time I checked it hadn't been altered to "hit at or above the average number of heavyweight punches thrown in a fight, and don't get hit." Edited August 21, 2018 by David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 21, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 21, 2018 I see where you are coming from, i dont necessarily disagree but i cant not look at that fight (and i will rewatch it) and think that the result was a lot more down to what Klitschko didn't do than what Fury did do, and thats making me think that people have an over-inflated opinion of what Fury is capable of. His record shows that. Everyone rips on Deontay Wilders resume (including Fury) but outside of Klitschko id argue that Wilders may be stronger. But we've gone off point of what my original point was, and that was that i believe Fury looked pretty awful on Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: the result was a lot more down to what Klitschko didn't do than what Fury did do Do you think it could be a case of not so much what he didn't do, but more couldn't do because of Fury not letting him? I think that quote about Fury fights at his opponent's level is accurate. I still remember going to the boozer to watch him on Channel 5 knowing it wouldn't be a technical masterpiece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 21, 2018 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 21, 2018 That probably factors in, but Klitschko looked beyond disinterested that night. I re-read a tweet earlier on from the time and it said "its as if Klitschko woke up this morning and decided he didn't want to be world champion anymore". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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