the_mole Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Boxing usually gets bigger buys than the UFC for their major fights maybe 3 times a year but HBO & Showtime have promoted PPVs that have done shockingly bad numbers like Morales-Maidaina from earlier this year that did under 50,000 buys, that's nearly TNA level bad. Â Boxing in the States also has PPVs that Showtime & HBO don't pick up like most Klitchko fights and I would guess they do pretty badly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Taylorslade Posted September 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2011 Boxing usually gets bigger buys than the UFC for their major fights maybe 3 times a year but HBO & Showtime have promoted PPVs that have done shockingly bad numbers like Morales-Maidaina from earlier this year that did under 50,000 buys, that's nearly TNA level bad. Boxing in the States also has PPVs that Showtime & HBO don't pick up like most Klitchko fights and I would guess they do pretty badly as well.  I'm not saying that one is better than the other, or that the UFC aren't doing good business because they are. Fantastic business. The whole Boxing Vs MMA thing is absolutely retarded and my ultimate pet hate. I hate that argument even more than the Pacquiao Vs Mayweather shit storm. What I've been arguing, is that boxing is not in the toilet and when people say that it's getting killed etc, they are just wrong.  I don't know the numbers for MMA events outside of the UFC, but if anyone knows them then I would like to know, partially because I'd like to know how they compare with the UFC's numbers.  The Morales Vs Maidana fight earlier this year wasn't expected to do much, although that is a shit number, plain and simple. The only thing I would say about that, is that the word was out on Morales in the Mexican and Mexican-American communites that he was in very dire straights money-wise and I know that there was a significant amount of potential buyers who simply said "pffft fuck that" for not only that reason, but even just looking at him they imagined that he was heading for a beating. (On the subject of Morales' condition, it's really hard to believe that he is the same age as Floyd Mayweather at 34). These days, promoters such as Top Rank and Golden Boy have produced their own PPV's whenever networks like HBO and Showtime have said no, so what you have is fights that would've been on shows like HBO's Boxing After Dark and World Championship Boxing or Showtime's ShoBox, are being distributed independantly as Top Rank PPV's and Golden Boy PPV's. Over the last couple of years, HBO "gave in" on a few ocassions and reluctantly agreed to putting certain fights on HBO PPV, because they knew that the promoters in question would simply distribute the shows themselves anyway whether they approved or not. However, it is starting to change. Of course, over here, Sky have said that they will do no more PPV's for a couple of years, not because recent shows didn't do very well, but because they felt (and rightly so) that nowadays no matter what your main event is, there should still be a strong supporting act. It's going to force promoters to up their game, and some have already done some stacked cards which were very good value for money.  I've been saying for a while now, that people need to realise that America is not the be all and end all of boxing. Big events held in America over the last four years featuring Mayweather, Pacquiao, De La Hoya, Hatton, Mosley etc etc have all been great, along with some young guys bringing in big business such as Saul Alvarez who can draw a full house even if he was in the ring with a WWF wrestle-buddy doll. There is a few examples of guys coming through right now in the States who have large followings, in some cases those fan bases consist of mostly ethnic-related support. Take America out of the equation though, and boxing on a world wide scale is doing great. With the box-office juggernaught Ricky Hatton calling it a day along with Calzaghe, there are some natural rivalries developing which will surely result in great business, such as the heat currently rising between Tyson Fury and David Price, and that should develope into healthy attendance and viewing figures, especially considering that Fury has done over 3 million viewers on Channel 5 in his last two fights, and the public are only just finding out about him now. George Groves and James Degale are bound to both have sucess after going their seperate ways and will in all likelehood meet again in a fight much bigger than the first. On the Continent, the Klitschko's fill massive stadiums each and every time they fight and draw an average 10 million viewers on network TV at the same time. They obviously get a lot of criticism mostly from the American side of things, but they are enormously popular in Europe and places like their native Ukraine. Going even further than that, places like Australia and New Zealand have put shows on over the last few years to packed stadiums and massive TV audiences.  Boxing is fine. MMA is also. They both have their own audiences, and whilst heavyweight boxing in America has seriously dropped off recently, guys from the lower weight classes have been doing the most consistently great business as they ever have, and the HW division over there will correct itself in time, as it has done many times before. It probably never get back to the heights it reached in the HW golden era of the late 60's-late 70's, but people need to realise that those days were very very special and everything happened in the right place at the right time to take it to those heights, and it probably won't happen again, but you can't penalise the current crop just because they do not hold up to those days.  Sums it up nicely imo without being disrespectful to either sport. Nice to see B-Hop's change of attitude recently towards MMA.  Definatley. I was glad when I heard him change his attitude. It's a much better attitude to have and I'm sure he will get respect back, although I'm not sure everyone in the MMA world will ever quite forgive him for his previous stance ; "MMA is gay porno". Tut Tut Bernard.  edit - love that sig Taylor  Thanks man, I knew you would appreciate it. I've always liked Merchant as an announcer, and he's been there for almost every big event from the last 50 years in boxing history (you can see him at ringside as far back as the second Ali/Clay Vs Liston fight), but I think that both he and Floyd have a valid reason for that now legendary exchange of words. Who's to blame aside though, I think that Larry's opinion that Mayweather purposely went beserk with him and stormed off because he knew that the next question was going to be about Manny Pacquiao - I think that's bollocks.  I've got Merchant in my top 5 toughest boxing announcers of all time. I think he would stop Harry Carpenter in the mid-rounds, KO Howard Cosell within 4 rounds, lose a split decision to Don Dunphy, but I think that Reg Gutteridge would be a step too far, and would take a severe beating from the one-legged Englishman, before Jim Lampley had to pull him out and save him from further punishment.  But I would pick him to drink anyone under the table, even Andre the Giant.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) I will say this on Boxing/MMA, I prefer MMA but Boxing still has a warm place in my heart, fights this year like Haye vs Klitchsko, Groves vs Degale and Ortiz vs Floyd, I have looked forward to months before they happened. Â Although not all of them fights delivered, I still do not regret spending time and in the case of the first two money on them. I cant say I have got my moneys worth on WWE for a long time, hence I have stopped spending money and time on it. Â I got over the Boxing vs MMA thing a long time ago and decided to just enjoy both for what they are, two pastimes I have that I get a lot of enjoyment and entertainment out of them. Â I am looking forward to Pac-Man in November and seeing how Tyson Fury evolves, some good things are happening in boxing. Edited September 20, 2011 by jimufctna24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted September 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2011 Yeah I'm looking forward to Pacman/Marquez 3 and Cotto/Margarito 2 just as much as the biggest MMA fights this year like Velasquez/Dos Santos and Shogun/Henderson. Â I've never got why there seems to be a Boxing vs MMA mentality for some people, even from a fan perspective where Boxing fans bash MMA and vice versa (not here but I see it on other forums a lot). Can't see why you can't be a fan of both. Well you can obviously (I am for one) but to some it seems like it's either one or the other. Stupid. Â November 12th is gonna be fucking awesome with Pac/Marquez 3 and Cain/JDS. 2 fights I've wanted to see for a long time, one in Boxing one in MMA. On the same fucking night. Nowt short of an earthquake will move me from my TV that night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopants the Scrunge Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Â Â Â Â I love how Ahmed Johnson is eye-fucking Larry Merchant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I'm not saying that one is better than the other, or that the UFC aren't doing good business because they are. This is the key point for me. I think that fans of the fight sports have never had it so good. I don't really care who does better, as long as both of them do well enough to keep giving us great fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopants the Scrunge Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I would just like to pay tribute to a good man who died this morning, Mr. George Benton, 78, Hall of Fame trainer and a very good bloke. Some will know him, some won't, but he was what I would call a "proper trainer". He was part of Joe Frazier's camp for many years including the Thrilla in Manilla, and was the legendary Eddie Futch's 2nd man for years. A few names he trained ; Evander Holyfield, Mike Mcallum, Meldrick Taylor, Pernell Whitaker among many others, and devised the strategy which Leon Spinks used to defeat a fading Muhammad Ali. Â Along with Butch Lewis earlier this year, another great boxing mind gone, and another step closer to the finish of an era. RIP. Â Â Agreed. Â George Benton was a legend in the business. Â His reaction to Oliver McCalls breakdown against Lewis in their second fight is another memory I have of him. Also his comments in the Thrilla in Manila documentary are very insightful, and blunt lol. Â Didn't realise that Butch Lewis had pegged out tho...that doesn't leave a lot of Joe Fraziers team left alive now that he and George Benton has gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted September 20, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 20, 2011 Taylorslade, I bow to your knowledge. Fair play and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Taylorslade, I bow to your knowledge. Fair play and all that. To be fair, the guy is a pugilistic fountain of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Taylorslade, I bow to your knowledge. Fair play and all that. To be fair, the guy is a pugilistic fountain of knowledge. I have to agree, the guy really knows his stuff on Boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted September 20, 2011 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2011 Taylorslade is definately the man here when it comes to boxing, no doubt about. Â As for the MMA/Boxing argument, it is retarded, i've always been of the opinion that both can happily co-exist. I love them both and i hope they both flourish. The fact that certain people take sides is fucking stupid. Â Love both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I think 2007 was the height of the UFC vs Boxing feud, with Rogan arguing on ESPN with some old git (feel free to tell me if that guy is actually important) and Mayweather and Liddel going back and forth, slagging each other of. Frank Warren and Barry Mcguigen also piped in with annoying barbs at MMA. Â By the time they did Toney vs Couture, the feud had kinda fizzled out, as the lacklustre buyrate for that show proved fans just stopped caring. Credit to Oscar De Le Hoya, he always said that the 2 sports could co-exist and didnt get involved in the mud slanging. Â One thing I will say is about the PPV buys, is that they both have one thing in common, they both sell on the indivdual fighter, not the sport and in the case of boxing not the promotion. Yes, you do have to be in the UFC or Strikeforce to draw a big buyrate in MMA, but the buyrates like Boxing go up and down depndent on who is headlining. Â If Floyd is headlining a HBO PPV, for example it will draw a good one million buys or more, the same if Brock Lesnar in headlining a PPV card for the UFC, however if say HBO put Zab Judah as a headliner on HBO PPV and the UFC put out Rich Franklin as a headliner, the PPV will only draw at the most 20-30 percent of what Brock/Floyd does. Â That is why that Morales vs Madiana buyrate isnt that big a deal, as the UFC will suffer from the same type of lacklustre buyrates when they put uninteresting/unmarketable headline bouts on as well, and as long as both have a handful of the Lesnars, Mayweathers, Pac Man and Rampages, both will still use their platform of UFC/HBO to do monster PPV buyrates even if they suffer the occasional duff one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Taylorslade Posted September 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think 2007 was the height of the UFC vs Boxing feud, with Rogan arguing on ESPN with some old git (feel free to tell me if that guy is actually important) Â I think I've seen that interview you're talking about, and the guy arguing with Joe Rogan was Lou Dibella, who was in charge of Boxing at HBO for quite a while before going into promoting fighters. The main thing I remember about that interview, was how embarrassed I was at the way he came across. He seemed to think that Joe Rogan and MMA fans in general had absolutley zero boxing knowledge at all, but he shit himself when Rogan began to show some good knowledge about guys going all the way back to Willie Pep and Sugar Ray Robinson. Â When MMA first began to show that it was a real PPV player, I was geniunely pleased because I knew that it was going to result in boxing having to up its game. I also believe that business for both sports will benefit as a direct result of them both being around right now, by that I mean that fight fans now have a clear cut guide of what they want and what they will recieve from watching both sports. Guys on here for example, like Mike Shogun and Ebb, loyal followers of both sports, and they know that they get from each of them, and what we have in the end is two satisfied and lifelong fans. Â Going back to the Merchant Vs Mayweather subject, the thing that really tops it for me is Merchant laughing in Floyd's face as if to say "You ain't gonna do shit boy, so FUCK YOU." The faces he pulls in the 2 or so minutes of the interview are absolutley brilliant. Â And thanks for the kind words guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted September 21, 2011 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 yeh the interview was Rogan and Lou Dibella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted September 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 here's the Rogan/DiBella interview  Since we're on the subject of Boxing/MMA I thought this would be interesting. Dana White's thoughts on the Mayweather/Ortiz fight and the officiating  HOLLYWOOD, Calif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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