Boxing Thread

[jimufctna24]

Thanks for the info, I was not aware Junior was in the running for the Stadium show.

 

I always regret not attending Ricky vs Tszyu, it is the one boxing show I really wish I would have attended, which in hindsight I really could have attended. I do forget that Bradley beat Witter, I also forget that the fight was close, as it was in England, Witter could have got the nod that night and was actually the bookies favorite as amazing as that seems now.

[Gooner]

The fight did 900k buys according to what Showtime said, they gave him the 200m dollars for a 6 fight contract, I can't see why they would lie. The PPV figures for Pacquiao are redundent as he isn't American, he will never be bigger in America then Mayweather, fact he fought his last fight in China says it all. His figures before when he fought in America before were much bigger then anyone Mayweather has faced in his career. His problem is looking for excuses, giving reasons why he doesn't need to fight etc I've been over the whole May/Pac debate to last me a lifetime, I'm a huge fan of both, been more a Mayweather fan to be honest since 96 when he competed in the Olympics, I hold the both of them to blame on this, you can take a pick on who's to blame most, I don't believe either have done or wanted the fight enough to make it happen. Easier fighting guys you know you will beat for huge sums and taking it easy.

 

It is a power thing it always has been, I think that's more between Mayweather and Arum. There's an issue there from years ago and it has resulted in this stalemate where both sides want full control. I blame everyone involved in this whole situation, they ruined it for the fans and basically screwed us out of the biggest fight in boxing history.

 

Would not surprise me in the least bit of Pac has tax problems, Mayweather had them too, that has no barring on why the fight hasn't taken place so far or is likely to happen. Mayweather is bringing up a lot of things lately to justify not taken the fight, that's all well and good, problem is if he goes on and faces Khan next, his arguments are null and void.

 

I was told by Tris Dixon of the Boxing News that the final numbers were roughly 1 million when I was at a Boxing writers awards show a couple of weeks ago. I'm not saying that to try and make myself sound great, but just to show I'm not just pulling it out of my arse. Not much difference in 900 and 1million anyway i suppose.

 

The PPV numbers are relevant because it determines each guys value, in this situation anyway because the fallout was over the purse split everytime they held discussions along with the Random Testing. Pacquiaos nationality was never brought into it.

 

Which PPVs did you mean having done much better than Mayweathers? Because I don't believe that to be the case at all. Although it's somewhat of a murky issue regarding Top Rank and HBO because they rarely announced official numbers.

 

Pacquiao fought in China because he didn't want to pay the heavy Nevada state taxes anymore. The location of the fight shouldn't of made a difference to people wanting to buy it because it was still on live at the same time it would've been had it been in Vegas.

 

I'm just going by what came out from Showtime, but as you say whether 900k or 1m it doesn't matter. it's okay, I didn't think you were, lucky you though, how was it?

 

If you base it on PPV buys both guys were similar bar if you take out the De La Hoya/Mayweather fight which did record numbers, but we all know De La Hoya is a cash cow, you will always do big numbers for him, but no doubt those numbers blew people's minds. His PPV numbers didn't do bigger then Mayweather's, what I meant was Mayweather has used recently that Pacquiao doesn't deserve to fight him as his PPV numbers are low, my point is take out De La Hoya and Pacquiao had done bigger buys then any other guy Mayweather has faced in his career. It's a poor excuse from Floyd to use that as a means to not make the fight happen. Before it was Pacquaio wins don't count against De La Hoya/hatton because he had finished them, when he beat Cotto is what he made Cotto come down to 145lbs instead of fighting at 147lbs, he beat Marquez easy, Pac always struggled so that means i beat him easy, then it's drug testing, money and finally it comes down to it never happening because he won't work with Arum. The same guy who been involved in this entire thing since day one. He's came out and called Pac a cheat(got sued for it and had to pay compensation) he has been seen on videos in the past saying he's a coward but a rich coward, you see the way he went through Cotto and destroyed him, come on man, he can't believe what Pac has done coming up the weights and doing what he has done, funny thing is Floyd has himself down very similar in being able to jump up so many weights and win world titles in his career.

 

The build up for Pacquaio last fight wasn't what it normally would be if his fights were taking place in the States. The PPV numbers weren't the best based on what he has done previously, but it's not always just about what the PPV numbers are in America, be good to find a way to know what his PPV numbers were in China, even though early on in the day you would think they were strong.

 

I don't want to put more blame on one more than the other as I think everybody involved in negotiations or the attempts to make this fight happen have cheated the boxing public out of what IMO would have been the biggest fight in boxing history.

[wandshogun09]

Floyd vs Naz would've been magic. The fight itself would be fascinating and can you imagine the build up, the weigh in? Imagine a 24/7 series for that. I'd trade in all the stuff Santa brought me for a time machine to make that fight happen if it was possible. Naz of 1997 vs Floyd of 2007.

 

As for Naz vs Gatti, here's a video with Gatti taking about it;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=3WPEQbevQVU

 

To read the book you would think he was a inconsistent fighter in many ways, he is very hard on himself.

 

I thought that. You can see why someone like that could become depressed. He's his own biggest critic in a lot of ways. I thought he was overly harsh on himself a few times in the book.

 

While we're being all nostalgic, just spotted this on Amazon;

 

 

I love the Benn, Eubank, Watson era so this is a definite buy for me. Not out until May though. My mate got me this for Christmas as well;

 

 

And my brother got me Hagler's book. All that and I've still got Tyson's, Johnny Nelson's and Barry McGuigan's here unread.

[Taylorslade]

Juan Manuel Marquez....Reformed piss drinking, fun loving Mexican.

 

 

 

Note; These are quite old, but posting them just for a laugh for anyone who hasn't seen them. There's a couple more of the same Oriental guy grabbing his bollocks.... for whatever reason.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Taylorslade

[wandshogun09]

What the fuck?

 

Finally watched that Sports Life Stories on Chris Eubank. Thought it was excellent. I'm hoping they do one on Nigel Benn at some point. The Eubank-Benn reunion was pretty nice to see. I knew they were cordial these days but they were more matey than I expected.

 

Found the Watson part interesting to watch as well. Especially the press conference footage. Watson really seemed to rattle Eubank before the second fight, simply by just not being bothered by Eubank's antics. Eubank was polar opposite there to the way he was with Benn when they were signing the contract for their first fight. He played Benn like a master puppeteer by refusing to look at him. You could see Benn seething in his chair while Eubank got more and more smug. But the press conference for Watson 2, Eubank didn't know how to handle Watson's coolness and stormed out in temper.

 

I wonder what would have became of Watson as a boxer had he not suffered that horrible brain injury. In a lot of ways he was probably the most talented of the three - Watson, Eubank, Benn. Such a shame. But it's great to see him in clips now. For someone who could've been bitter, and no-one would really blame him, he's so positive whenever you see him. Always a big fuck off grin on his face and when he talks about his boxing career, there's even a hint of cockiness still there at times! I love it.

 

Anyone here watched the two Watson vs Eubank fights? How did you score the controversial first one? I think I did have Watson winning but I didn't think it was as bad a decision as it's made out to be.

 

The second fight was incredible, but terrible how it ended. And rewatching the footage during the Eubank documentary, I was reminded just how uncomfortable it was seeing Watson go out for that final round. To be honest, I think the ref and Watson's cornermen were awful that night. They're supposed to do their best to protect the fighters yet they let Watson go on when he was clearly out on his feet. I know with hindsight it's easier to criticise but the corner must have seen how fucked Watson was between the 11th and 12th round. But they pushed him back out there for more punishment in the hope he could stay upright and just survive to win the decision.

 

More disturbing was the referee. Watson got up off the stool for the 12th and just stood there instead of coming to the centre of the ring. That should have been a big flashing neon sign that something was wrong with him. But the ref actually grabbed his arm and dragged him to the centre of the ring. Really disturbing viewing.

[Taylorslade]

I wonder what would have became of Watson as a boxer had he not suffered that horrible brain injury. In a lot of ways he was probably the most talented of the three - Watson, Eubank, Benn. Such a shame. But it's great to see him in clips now. For someone who could've been bitter, and no-one would really blame him, he's so positive whenever you see him. Always a big fuck off grin on his face and when he talks about his boxing career, there's even a hint of cockiness still there at times! I love it.

 

In my opinion, he was the best of the bunch and had the potential to go much farther. A brilliant jab and great ring IQ with nerves of steel to put it in practice (see the Benn fight) I thought they rushed him into the fight with Mike Mcallum, even without the nose injury he received in training I still think they should've held off on that one. One thing that was different back then was that it was really hard to get good champions to come to England and fight for several reasons, one being the scoring system at the time with the referee being the sole arbiter, even though they were consistent and accurate, it still made foreign fighters feel uneasy. So with that in mind, I can sort of understand why they rushed him into it once they knew Mcallum was up for it.

 

Regarding the Benn/Watson/Eubank era, I am looking forward to the day that Steve Bunce writes a book on that time, much like George Kimball's "Four Kings" on the Hagler/Leonard/Hearns/Duran era. I like the look of the books that are already out, but I think Bunce can give a different perspective considering that he was there covering all of them and knew all guys involved very well.

 

I love, absolutely love Michael Watson. As a person and a fighter. Like you mate, I also love how he talks about his career, pure class. He has "forgiven" Eubank, although that's probably not the correct term. He doesn't harbour any resentment, but he really doesn't rate him as a fighter whatsoever. Everytime he is asked about Eubank he always says "Not as good as Nigel, Nigel was a pure force of nature, Chris was nowhere near in comparison". I always love that one.

 

Anyone here watched the two Watson vs Eubank fights? How did you score the controversial first one? I think I did have Watson winning but I didn't think it was as bad a decision as it's made out to be.

 

Well I thought Watson won the fight, although some of the rounds could've went either way. One thing I didn't like, and I never like this, is when fighters use "you have to take it from the champion", I don't agree with that, if you lose, you lose. I always feel like that is no different than giving the home fighter an advantage in the scoring also, which is usually frowned upon, so it's a double standard.

 

The second fight was incredible, but terrible how it ended. And rewatching the footage during the Eubank documentary, I was reminded just how uncomfortable it was seeing Watson go out for that final round. To be honest, I think the ref and Watson's cornermen were awful that night. They're supposed to do their best to protect the fighters yet they let Watson go on when he was clearly out on his feet. I know with hindsight it's easier to criticise but the corner must have seen how fucked Watson was between the 11th and 12th round. But they pushed him back out there for more punishment in the hope he could stay upright and just survive to win the decision

 

It was a brilliant fight, Watson just pummelled Eubank, and was one round away from the win, which I think was the problem. Had the fight been anywhere near as close going into the 12th round, I think Jimmy Tibbs in Watson's corner would not of been as caught up in the whole thing as he was. I'm never overly critical of him for not stopping the fight, but I think if you had spent as much time as Tibbs did with Watson, then you know he was a totally different person after that uppercut. He wasn't all over the place, but wasn't responsive and seemed to be somewhere else in his mind, whereas Watson always seemed in control of himself and composed during his fights previously. I don't think it was negligence, I think they got too caught up with how big that fight was and how everything went down in the first fight, and got too stuck on the prospect of winning the fight.

 

However, there is no doubt whatsoever that the way Watson was handled medically was nothing short of disgraceful. He was laying in a crowded ring totally unresponsive without oxygen with a fucking briefcase under his head to support it. The ambulance took him to the wrong hospital. It's a clich

[Egg Shen]

touching story.

 

I never really knew much about Gary Mason, always knew the name but i can't really recall seeing any of his fights really, i always remember seeing him doing TV shows and things though. So sad when he died.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah I was a little bit too young to catch much of Gary Mason. I remember his fight with Lennox Lewis though. Without checking I think that was his last fight because he had damage to his eyes or something. Was a cracking fight if I'm remembering right.

 

Regarding the Benn/Watson/Eubank era, I am looking forward to the day that Steve Bunce writes a book on that time, much like George Kimball's "Four Kings" on the Hagler/Leonard/Hearns/Duran era. I like the look of the books that are already out, but I think Bunce can give a different perspective considering that he was there covering all of them and knew all guys involved very well.

 

Is Bunce planning to do this then? I didn't know that. Would be brilliant. Didn't he write Watson's book or am I imagining it? I loved the Four Kings book as well so one like that for that British middleweight lot would be fantastic.

 

One thing I didn't like, and I never like this, is when fighters use "you have to take it from the champion", I don't agree with that, if you lose, you lose. I always feel like that is no different than giving the home fighter an advantage in the scoring also, which is usually frowned upon, so it's a double standard.

 

Absolutely. I've been saying that in the MMA threads for years. I hate that 'you have to nearly murder the champion to take his title' stuff. It's such bollocks. If you win the rounds you win the rounds. It shouldn't make a bit of difference which guy walked in with the belt and it shouldn't influence the judging at all in my opinion. Every fight should be judged on a level playing field regardless of who's the champion or who's hometown it is or any of that. And when there's a dodgy decision and people go 'Well he is the champion. You should have to really take it from the champion', I don't get it. What does really take it even mean and how does that translate to the 10-9 system? Does the challenger have to win every round 10-8 to get the verdict? If you win more rounds and score more points than the champ you should win. Whether it's a wide decision or you scrape through a split by the skin of your balls.

 

I don't think it was negligence, I think they got too caught up with how big that fight was and how everything went down in the first fight, and got too stuck on the prospect of winning the fight.

 

Yeah that'll be why. And I can see how at the time they thought like that. They couldn't have known what was going to happen. And if they'd stopped it in the corner after the 11th, people would've been screaming bad stoppage because Watson was so far ahead. It would have probably been ranked up there with Chavez vs Taylor 1. So I see the position they were in and the corner probably thought he'd be OK.

 

It's the ref I think really should have stepped in. The way Watson just stands there in the corner before the 12th, staring off into the crowd, and didn't move towards centre ring. Roy Francis really should've picked up on something there. But he didn't even take a good look at Watson, he grabbed his arm and pulled him to the centre of the ring. If you have to physically drag a guy because he can't do it himself, the fight is over and Watson had no business to be taking more blows at that point. Francis would've copped some flack for stopping it there but what can you do?

 

However, there is no doubt whatsoever that the way Watson was handled medically was nothing short of disgraceful. He was laying in a crowded ring totally unresponsive without oxygen with a fucking briefcase under his head to support it. The ambulance took him to the wrong hospital. It's a clich

Edited December 30, 2013 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

that's something that boxing seems to do all the time these days. Pacquiao's family are always heavily featured on camera during fights as well.

[Taylorslade]

The ITV documentary on Benn Vs Mclellan was a good enjoyable programme, but I have a problem with a couple of things in it. I really don't like how Barry Mcguigan threw Jim Watt under the bus. I could think of a few things Barry has said on commentary that could've been taken a certain way if someone wanted to do the same to him.

 

The big problem I have with the documentary is that they forgot to include the fact that Mclellan made enough of a recovery in England to WALK out of the hospital. It was the flight home that set him back and began to lead to complications. Something to do with pressure in his skull because of the altitude. His family were told not to, but did it anyway. I can't criticise Frank Warren, he paid for all kinds of stuff and went out of his way. Mclellan's "trainer" Stan Johnson saying that they had some of Benn's blood tested which they took from Gerald's boots, and it was positive for steroids. When Frank Warren was asked he said; "That's strange, because his boots are still in my office where they have been since 1995".

 

The Watson and Mclellan stories are similar on the surface, but different when you look at them, particularly the fights. Watson was hit with a freaky punch totally out of the blue and was out of it for only a few minutes before he collapsed. Mclellan on the other hand, looked out of sorts after a few rounds. The excessive blinking and losing control of his mouth should've been a massive red flag to his corner and the referee even if he didn't speak English. Reg Gutteridge noticed it on commentary straight away.

[Egg Shen]

i never knew that McClellan walked out of the hospital here

Edited December 30, 2013 by Ebb

[Taylorslade]

i never knew that McClellan walked out of the hospital here

 

Incredible isn't it? It's almost never mentioned anywhere either.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah I didn't know until I read War, Baby.

 

Bunce talks about it here as well;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=JpzavCLzt48

 

Said the doctors said that with the progress McClellan was making in England, there was no reason why he wouldn't make a full recovery. That flight to America apparently undid any good progress and did irreparable damage.

[Taylorslade]

Bunce said he was going to be doing a book like that a couple of years ago, I think he willdo it eventually. I know some people don't like him, but I think he's alright. I like that he's a proper journalist and writer, not some glorified fanboy blogger like you see now.

 

I recommend his two boxing novels, especially "the fixer". There's not enough boxing fiction books out, good ones especially.

 

 

 

 

 

There's also a great one called "Waiting for Carver Boyd" by Thomas Hauser, a brilliant read which you can finish in a couple of hours as it's not too long.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Taylorslade

[Rossman]

The Watson and Mclellan stories are similar on the surface, but different when you look at them, particularly the fights. Watson was hit with a freaky punch totally out of the blue and was out of it for only a few minutes before he collapsed. Mclellan on the other hand, looked out of sorts after a few rounds. The excessive blinking and losing control of his mouth should've been a massive red flag to his corner and the referee even if he didn't speak English. Reg Gutteridge noticed it on commentary straight away.

 

There was an interesting quote from Tarek Salmaci who was in the original series of The Contender. He was sparring McClellan prior to the Benn fight and the blinking happened again.

 

I feel Gerald McClellan was already injured going into the Nigel Benn fight, I have a strong belief. There was this one time Gerald and I were sparring and I hit him with a solid jab in the middle of his forehead, like between the eyebrows...He told me "STOP, HOLD UP"! "YOU THUMBED ME MAN". So he stopped and started blinking non stop from what I thought was a thumb. I never even felt like I thumbed him, and they were thumbless gloves so I just figured somehow my thumb must have poked him in the eye because of the way he was blinking really fast and non-stop..with both eyes though. So we finish our sparring session, and we are in the back locker room at Kronk, this is like 1994, Gerald walks up to me and says, "Man, I'm gonna be honest with you...You didn't thumb me...You hurt me". "I'm man enough to say that". I was then kind of confused and surprised as to how I could of hurt him with a jab and I was fighting at 147lbs. and he was weighing probably 175 lbs.