David Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 On 10/6/2022 at 10:52 PM, SuperBacon said: Isn't something like Clomifene, which can artificially raise testosterone levels, by that very definition a performance enhancing drug? It depends on what you mean by "performance enhancing" really. From what I can see, it's not as clear-cut as taking the drug and watching as your testosterone levels rocket and you become Ivan Drago. In many cases it doesn't actually work, and it seems that most results are relatively moderate, which is why it's not seen as a "golden ticket" for low sperm count in men. Basically, if Benn took this drug, with all the risks of being popped, losing the right to fight, losing his license, fined, banned and so on under the impression it would give him a real edge over Eubank, then he's a fucking moron. On 10/7/2022 at 9:14 AM, Ironic Indie Lad said: So it seems like Clomifene is one of those drugs that people use to get their testosterone production going when their body is no longer doing it naturally. I would say there's a fairly good chance that Benn was on a cycle of gear and Clomifene was part of his cycling off in order to make sure his test production didnt drop through the fucking floor. I would imagine that's why its a banned substance as there is no legitimate reason for a male to be taking this drug. No idea why anyone would say that its not significant. This is the same drug that Brock Lesnar popped for in the Mark Hunt fight and I have a small suspicion that Brock Lesnar MAY have used PEDs in his life! That's a very basic way of looking at it. Clomifene is prescribed to men when they suffer from low sperm count, which can be brought on as a result of low testosterone. But it could be brought on by other things as well, such as being on certain medications over the years, infections from childhood such as mumps, and shit like that. It's also worth noting that when professional athletes, especially those in combat sports suffer from low testosterone, it doesn't necessarily mean "oh, he's been on the gear" but is more often than not brought on by years of cutting weight. If we're honest, with the sophistication of drug testing these days, and the random testing we often see (sometimes even out of competition), it's incredibly unlikely that anyone is "on the gear" in the traditional sense that we saw maybe 15-20 years ago. They simply couldn't get away with it now. Especially at the top level. I actually think that the weight cutting we see in MMA and boxing is too often overlooked as reasons for health issues faced by fighters, and trivialised by fans who just assume if a fighter has low testosterone that he's been "on the gear" at some point. On the Benn situation, the authorities need to look at the circumstances behind the usage. Was it given to him by a doctor? If so, why? Is he trying to start a family? Was he previously tested for low sperm count and both him and his other half on treatments or being given advice on how to combat that? All of those factors are key. Of course, if he has no legitimate reason for taking the drug, wasn't prescribed it by an actual doctor, and the circumstances don't add up then fair enough, he deserves a ban and whatever else comes his way. But I'm not sure if we know those circumstances as yet, and I'm almost certain that none of the armchair experts on social media know those circumstances as yet either. The fact it wasn't immediate acted upon, and Eubank seemed fairly happy to proceed with the fight tells me that there's maybe more to it than "dude is on 'roids, lad be cheating." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironic Indie Lad Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 It's an anti estrogenic substance and its banned at all times by the World Anti Doping Agency. Of course a full investigation should and presumably will take place. Either to clear the fighters name or come to a decision on an appropriate ban while also providing some additional context for the failure. If it's found that he was prescribed the drug due to trying to start a family / having low sperm count / low test from weight cutting / had mumps as a child etc. then, ok, an argument could be made at that point to say that he wasn't knowingly doping. Next stop would be ruling on whether or not the volume would give any sort of performance enhancement. I don't believe any of the perhaps legitimate reasons for taking clomifene / clomiphene allow you to take WADA banned drugs. Its either a reminder to check every single thing you take against the banned list or a reminder to your chemist that their doping methodology isn't as good as they thought. Personally I believe doping is the more likely scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 10, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) surely if Connor Benn had willingly taken a fertility drug he would have admitted it already?...incidentally I do think he's recently become a father. Innocent or not, its a huge hit for his career. In the eyes of many he'll be seen as a cheater now for the rest of his career. The real story for me is the mess regarding how the whole thing came to light. Edited October 10, 2022 by Egg Shen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 33 minutes ago, Ironic Indie Lad said: Personally I believe doping is the more likely scenario. Then he's a total fool, because the potential benefits when it comes to testosterone and any edge in the actual fight are so ridiculously small as to be laughable. 7 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: The real story for me is mess regarding how the whole thing came to light. It seems to me that Eubank knew for a month or so before it came to light, which is why I think it's fairly innocent. If he or his camp figured Benn was intentionally doping and taking something that could provide a real, beneficial edge in the fight I doubt he'd have been so passive about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 10, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 10, 2022 Yeah, by all accounts everybody knew who were involved in the making of the fight and they attempted to sweep it under the rug before the Daily Mail printed their story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 10, 2022 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 10, 2022 This just popped up in my recommended videos and the thumbnail looks exactly as I expected 😂 looking forward to this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 10, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 10, 2022 well there goes any potential working arrangement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 10, 2022 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 10, 2022 Ha. Just clicked on it and look at Frank in the very opening seconds of the interview. Can hardly contain his glee. Had to gif it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 10, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 10, 2022 i'm not a conspiracy theorist but part of me thinks they knew the story was going to break, it also makes me wonder if the whole Fury/Joshua thing was designed to reflect badly on Matchroom and DAZN as they were leading into their UK PPV launch. The whole week to 10 days leading in were disastrous for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 11, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 11, 2022 i've listened to both Hearns and Warren's recent IFL interviews now. What I don't get from Eddie Hearn's side is that he's now said that the British Boxing Board of Control had prohibited the bout a few days before it was made public and before the Daily Mail's article was printed on the Thursday, but at the same time he's saying that at no point did they ever look to sanction the fight under a different commission, or that that they never went to court to try and sort it out before fight night. So why did they wait until Friday to announce it was off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 13, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 13, 2022 i hadnt really known what to think of the Eubank Sr. comments leading in, but he was on Talksport today and is going in pretty strong on the event and the weight issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted October 13, 2022 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 13, 2022 “Murder” is a strong word but I can totally understand why he has the point of view he has to be fair. You can hear the pain in his voice. No dad should have to go through what he’s been through. When you think of the things he’s experienced and seen personally in his time in Boxing - the Watson injury and Benn vs McClellan as he said - then add in the weight cut and rehydration clause, which, weight cutting is probably responsible for a big chunk of the brain injuries we’ve seen over the years, then also add in that he knew Conor had failed a test as well, I completely get where he’s coming from. Especially when you factor in he’s lost another son quite recently. Listening to him there, it’s one of the only times I’ve heard him speak where I didn’t feel like he was playing the gimmick at all. While I’m on the subject, Jr did make the weight anyway even though the fight was off, just to prove a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted October 13, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted October 13, 2022 Yeah for a portion of the interview i even questioned if it was him, just sounded different. The guy is clearly still grieving and in a lot of pain. Sad to hear 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossman Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Conor Benn has now given up his bbboc license. So he basically can't fight in the UK. Eddie Hearn is whining saying Benn didn't get a fair hearing. When Dilian Whyte failed a drugs test. He had a hearing with UKAD and they were happy with the outcome and the fight went ahead. Supposedly Benn didn't have the same opportunity. Hearns saying the bbboc leaked the drug test results to the Daily Mail and when everyone found out about the failed drugs test, the bbboc had to stop the fight happening. If you failed a drugs test, you failed a drugs test. Sounds like Hearn is pissed off that he spunked millions promoting the fight and got nothing out of it. Supposedly Benn is going to make a statement in 48 hours with all the facts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 If Hearn has evidence that the BBofC leaked the drug test results to the Daily Mail then he should come forward with it. If proven, that's a huge scandal in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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