NeverYield Posted May 27 Posted May 27 18 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Ive got a kindle version of that, need to read it. The Catching Lighting series is also well worth watching if you can find it. Yes this was a good watch I enjoyed it. I'd 100% get into that book when you've got a bit of time, and let me know what you think, truly is a very good book, with plenty of other bits in there. That stabbing was absurd, and to come back from that and even think about fighting, and then later that year go on to be part of something massive shows the type of character he was, again, not trying to talk him up like he is a saint, but what I mean is he suffered the kind of attack that has quite literally seen people never be the same again, almost become shells of themselves, and he just posed for the papers, said "fuck this" and went harder. 🤣 That show's a type of determination and grit, that if he was able to totally channel that into a positive path could have seen him do very well. There's a few interviews with him as well, I think on Bloody Elbow, whilst he's been locked up and they've been quite interesting. Quote
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted May 27 Paid Members Posted May 27 I’ve seen them Mark Epstein podcasts as well. The Dodge Woodall ones? Interesting to listen to. Seems quite chilled out now but you can tell he was a different character in his younger days and he’s still got that look about him like he could still flip today. He fought Bisping a couple of times as well way back before Bisping was on The Ultimate Fighter. 1 hour ago, NeverYield said: 100% you'll find many involved in MMA & Boxing particularly in that London and surrounding areas part involved in the crime stuff Probably the most notable connection is Nigel Benn being mates with Tony Tucker, a criminal, drug dealer one of the three men (the ‘Essex Boys’) found shot dead in a Range Rover in 1995. A case which spawned the Rise Of The Footsoldier films and countless documentaries. Benn was close with Tucker by all accounts, to the point you can even see Tucker with Benn during some of his walkouts for fights towards the end of his career. He’s very visible in the pre and post-fight of Benn’s fight with Gerald McClellan. I’m sure there’s a bunch more. I know Frank Warren was related to Lenny McLean somehow as well, think they were cousins. Pretty sure that’s how Frank got his foot in the door promoting fights, on the unlicensed scene, and he promoted one of McLean’s fights with Roy Shaw. Saw a clip of Frank talking about it years ago and he said Lenny was a bully. 25 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Only other time I remember MMA being front page news was when Gonzaga KO'd Crocop. Yeah that show, UFC 70 in Manchester, was promoted heavily over here. I remember seeing the poster on bus stops and buses all over Birmingham. Can only imagine how it was in Manchester. It was a headfuck seeing Cro Cop’s face all over the place in Brum. Good times. This has to be one of the most random and surreal pictures when it comes to combat sports… Quote
NeverYield Posted May 27 Posted May 27 Yeah the Dodge Woodhall podcasts are his best imo, Woodhall is a pretty decent interviewer to be fair, some of the others in that podcasting scene are a bit grating. 100%, you can see it in him can't you. Benn very close with Tucker yeah, and I don't think they'll ever stop making Rise of the Footsolider films now 🤣 Yeah Warren and McLean and second cousins, and he didn't particularly think too much of him as you say. McLean's book is decent read as well tbf if you take it with a pinch of salt and go into it with the mindset of not taking it too seriously and just reading it how you'd watch an 80's action movie that doesn't need too much attention, certainly a rough man though. Frank Warren's uncle Bobby was also meant to have been an absolute lunatic, he served time years ago with "Mad" Frankie Fraser, and sat with Frank after he was shot. Dubois old trainers the Bowers are also notorious individuals, they had their gym bugged and that was how they got done for the Gatwick heist they planned. Stefy Bull, trainer and promoter in Northern England was recently given 10 years for cocaine. Quote
jimufctna24 Posted May 27 Posted May 27 1 hour ago, NeverYield said: I think it was the road rage incident that got him barred originally. For anyone who hasn't read it, and likes true crime books, "Heist" by Howard Sounes is a cracking read. It is thoroughly researched, highly detailed, doesn't glorify anything, just tells the story of what happened, haven't read it in a long time but this podcast has made me want to dig it out, it is more of a true crime read but in the early stages of the book there is a fair bit about the UK MMA scene around that time in London, but it is mainly a true crime book for those who can read that sort of thing You could well be right. The road rage incident occurred in December of 2003 and he was first barred from entry for June of 2004 where he was scheduled to fight Curtis Stout at UFC 48. So the timeline does fit nicely. There are a few reasons, however, to believe that it may not be the road rage incident that got him banned. Firstly, Murray was able to fight in the UFC in January of 2004, a month after the road rage incident (I guess it's possible that he used the dual passport trick or the Met Police hadn't tipped off US authorities about the road rage case yet) Secondly, at Cage Rage 7 in July of 2004, Murray claimed that it was an "old case" that needed clearing up before he could regain entry into the US. An "old case" doesn't really sound like the road rage incident, which only occurred 6 months or so earlier. Therefore, it could have been a prior case, for which Met Police tipped off the US authorities about, which was the reason he was barred (he was linked to a murder earlier in 2003 for example). The book you mentioned is cited as the source for the Met Police reporting him to the US authorities, which led to his ban from the US and with it the UFC, so that book will probably have better information than I have. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted May 27 Author Paid Members Posted May 27 this is the type of combat sports chat we need, love the history of the sports. Quote
jimufctna24 Posted May 27 Posted May 27 Just now, Egg Shen said: this is the type of combat sports chat we need, love the history of the sports. I've listened to the entire 2 hour of the Geer interview now. It isn't just the Murray stuff that was interesting, I found the entire 2 hours riveting. Highly recommended. I'm looking forward to part 2, where I assume they will discuss the 2nd half of Cage Rage's run (05-08). From a comment made on the first podcast it appears as though the hosts are going to ask Geer about the rumours about some of Legeno's fights being fixed. Quote
NeverYield Posted May 27 Posted May 27 23 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said: You could well be right. The road rage incident occurred in December of 2003 and he was first barred from entry for June of 2004 where he was scheduled to fight Curtis Stout at UFC 48. So the timeline does fit nicely. There are a few reasons, however, to believe that it may not be the road rage incident that got him banned. Firstly, Murray was able to fight in the UFC in January of 2004, a month after the road rage incident (I guess it's possible that he used the dual passport trick or the Met Police hadn't tipped off US authorities about the road rage case yet) Secondly, at Cage Rage 7 in July of 2004, Murray claimed that it was an "old case" that needed clearing up before he could regain entry into the US. An "old case" doesn't really sound like the road rage incident, which only occurred 6 months or so earlier. Therefore, it could have been a prior case, for which Met Police tipped off the US authorities about, which was the reason he was barred (he was linked to a murder earlier in 2003 for example). The book you mentioned is cited as the source for the Met Police reporting him to the US authorities, which led to his ban from the US and with it the UFC, so that book will probably have better information than I have. Yes definitely true mate, and it was more than likely an accumulation of things as well, for example the life he was living he was clearly being looked at, and the people he surrounded himself with, and this wouldln't have helped him, or anyone trying to make waves into a global sporting scene. People with a checkered past, particularly where violence is concerned will have things flag up as "markers" won't they, when a numberplate (provided the vehicle is in their name🤣) is ran through a database so no doubt the things he was linked too didn't help him whatsoever where moving about freely was concerned. Great book that one, definitely gonna dive into it again, and yeah Egg 🤣definitely, I love all these discussions. I think I've mentioned the book on here before as well but boxings history in the old London prize ring was littered with all sorts of unsavoury characters and activities, even way back then. Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted May 27 Author Paid Members Posted May 27 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said: I've listened to the entire 2 hour of the Geer interview now. It isn't just the Murray stuff that was interesting, I found the entire 2 hours riveting. Highly recommended. I'm looking forward to part 2, where I assume they will discuss the 2nd half of Cage Rage's run (05-08). From a comment made on the first podcast it appears as though the hosts are going to ask Geer about the rumours about some of Legeno's fights being fixed. Yeah, im sure we've spoken about the Legeno fights on here prior. Another one I always remember was Ken Shamrock's fight with Buzz Berry in Cage Rage. Ol' Kenny was stopped early in round 1 and he made some weird comments later on that led me to believe not everything was above board there. I need to do some digging on that. You will get no more a fixed fight than Alex Reid/Jason Barrett in UCMMA (the promotion that came after Cage Rage closed it's doors). Sold as a PPV (which i bought!!), the most WWE build up of all time, followed by a clearly thrown fight. Barrett later did time in prison for weapon possession or something. I really miss those Cage Rage days though, it was ahead of it's time really. I think the UK MMA scene could really do with a Cage Rage or BAMMA now. Promotions where they put a bit of an effort in to present their fighters as stars. As much as I enjoy Cage Warriors, it's is and is presented like a feeder league, the shows rarely feel big and just acts as a placeholder until people move to the UFC. Oktagon attempted it and I thought what they actually presented to the UK market was great, just the lack of interest made them withdraw from the market and let most of their UK fighters go, a real shame. The UK scene is a bit shit really. Edited May 27 by Egg Shen Quote
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted May 27 Paid Members Posted May 27 Looking forward to giving the Geer podcast a listen but I think I’m gonna wait until they upload the rest and I’ll binge it on my gym trips or something. Cheers for hooking us up Ebb. I’ve never listened to that podcast before and probably wouldn’t have stumbled across it if you hadn’t posted it in here. Quote
NeverYield Posted May 27 Posted May 27 (edited) Im looking forward to the second part as well although i saw in the comments theyd reached out and heard no response as yet. Obviously that doesnt mean their wont be one though. Love a Gym trip listen myself Wand🤣 Edited May 27 by NeverYield Quote
jimufctna24 Posted May 27 Posted May 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, NeverYield said: Yes definitely true mate, and it was more than likely an accumulation of things as well, for example the life he was living he was clearly being looked at, and the people he surrounded himself with, and this wouldln't have helped him, or anyone trying to make waves into a global sporting scene. People with a checkered past, particularly where violence is concerned will have things flag up as "markers" won't they, when a numberplate (provided the vehicle is in their name🤣) is ran through a database so no doubt the things he was linked too didn't help him whatsoever where moving about freely was concerned. I suspect you've nailed it here. It would be very Lee Murray, however, had he been banned from travelling to the US years earlier, yet pulled the passport trick to compete on a Extreme Challenge show, train with Miletich, and indeed compete on the UFC 46 card. 49 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Yeah, im sure we've spoken about the Legeno fights on here prior. We have indeed. I knew someone well-connected with the UK MMA industry at the time. I told him about the online rumours that the Legeno vs Murdock fight was fixed. In response, he told me that he'd heard the Kimo vs Legeno bout from 2 months earlier had been fixed. I sadly lost touched with him between 2007 and 2012, so I never got to ask him about the Shamrock vs Berry bout, which I always assumed until now was a genuine fight. Edited May 27 by jimufctna24 Quote
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted May 27 Author Paid Members Posted May 27 Shamrock just said some weird stuff after which always led to believe something was up, I may have mis-read it though. Quote
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 27 Paid Members Posted May 27 Can I just say, @jimufctna24, what a fucking joy it is to have you back. You've been much missed. Quote
jimufctna24 Posted May 27 Posted May 27 20 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Can I just say, @jimufctna24, what a fucking joy it is to have you back. You've been much missed. Cheers Carbomb. It's been nice posting on here again. Quote
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