Bradford Wrestling Alliance

[thepigmanandyhogg]

Yes we had a Doug Williams seminar, and Kris Travis did a seminar and our show in June. He will also be wrestling on our show on September 29th At the Library Theatre, and will again be running a training seminar from 2pm to 5pm at the theatre that day. I have been fortunate enough to train with Doug and Kris many times over the years, as well as doing many shows with them, and they are very talented individuals, but also very good trainers. Sabotage will also be on our Sept show, and did our August show, which was attended by Justin Richards

 

in reference to UKwrestlefan1981, we have only been open as a training school since October 2011 so it would be a bit early for a lot of our members, and likewise I am a bit reluctant to name names, as sometimes in cases and threads like this they can be made to pay for the sins of their trainer, and I do not want anyones name dragging through the mud because of me.

 

Our members have worked for a variety companies, both historically for some of the returning to wrestling members, and recently.

 

 

I dont wish to question your integrity, but perhaps your memory is incorrect UKwrestlefan1981, as again as part of our relationship with the ERDF, we are required to keep details of all of our attendances, individuals and various other details in regards to them for Monitoring purposes, to ensure we are engaging with a cross section, and to highlight areas of unique interaction, and possible socioeconomic development. During the audit it flagged up that 100% of our attendees have been present at 2 sessions or more.

 

 

 

[robbo9292]

https://sites.google.com/site/indbritwres/training-schools - i've now started to work on this page of the website. Will need to find out more training schools, etc. But yeah i will only put respectable ones on there.

[TheHarveyDale]

For all those about to strike me down, may the lord (and the UKFF) have mercy on my soul...................

 

Right, here goes............

 

Ok, for starters, I think I have made my feelings on the amount of 'piss pots' as we are now referring to them that have sprung up over the past few months in a very limited area, pretty clear but for those who missed it I shall say again that I believe there are far too many of these coming out of the woodwork, all being run by people who have little/no experience of ever helping to run shows before or of working on any of the 'reputable' shows anywhere in the UK.

 

I touched on the fact that 'Markout Wrestling' run by Corey Carver over in Blackburn used Bubblegum and Joey Hayes on their first show, yes they also used some of the guys whose names are thrown around on a daily basis as being 'shit arses' or 'divs' but simply by having the initiative to seek out 2 of the UK's very best workers to be on your debut show definitely deserves some credit. I have met Corey on a number of occasions and have found him to be an intelligent, reasonable lad. It was bought to my attention yesterday that on one of the Markout advertising pages used the term 'Don't bother with the bigger promotions, we are the best!' - this is a statement that I can obviously not agree with in any way and am actually stunned that it was said. Corey is competant enough at what he does inside the ring and I have never witnessed anything he does in person that I would deem to be unsafe.

 

This brings me on to the RWL - I know the lads involved with that are all reading this thread as it is all over facebook at the moment, I have said it to several of the guys involved that this stuff is a total nonsense, I stand by my opinion of that and don't feel the need to be 2 faced about anything and say that I have ever told them it is a good idea. That stuff floating around on youtube is one of the reasons why so many people get on your backs and tar you all with the same brush. If you want to go and practice your in ring stuff then go along and do so but keep the videos off the internet. I think that would be a start to solving your problems and the onslaught of abuse you get from people.

 

To touch on some of the other guys mentioned or indeed not mentioned so far in this thread, I am probably in the minority of people who has actually seen these guys work in the flesh aswell as seeing the videos of them posted up on youtube. I have see Lewis O'Brien on 4 seperate occasions and certainly would not consider him to be 'void of all talent' as I think was mentioned earlier, in fact the lad clearly had some ability, as do 2 other guys working as 'The Yobz' - they are Tom Baron and James McPhail, all 3, to my knowledge, have never really attended any training schools and are all self taught - which I am not saying is a good way to go, but just imagine how good these lads could be if they actually got the psychology side of the business aswell as just being able to do all the fancy flips and high spots! These guys are all capable of working and in an academy show environment would stand out as being excellent. When I spoke personally to one of them he explained to me that it is not through lack of wanting to better themselves or to attend decent training but down to finances, they live in a struggling area of Blackburn where there is not the financial freedom to allow them to travel across to one of the decent schools so in that respect at least I do have some sympathy with them and believe that for not having had the opportunities in life or the luxury of a great training school in their imediate area then they have done the best with what they can do. I do stand by my opinion that RWL is something they need to put a stop to though.

 

So, this gets me nicely along to everybody's favourite topic - Brett Bell.

 

Now, I am going to ask this on Brett's behalf as I know he is not on UKFF or on Twitter so he asked me a question direct to my facebook :

 

"I am not a trainer as such I help out at 2 training schools with basics (bumps etc and new ppl)...I don't work for free at any company I wrestle at and get paid for my assistance at these training classes yet I'm regularly named as one of the worst by these ppl I can't figure this out even you didn't attempt to put these ppl right on their incorrect miss aimed points ...?"

 

I have met Brett on several occassions - I have seen him work and been present when he has been showing people a better way of doing things. Brett is a nice guy. I have never been to one of Brett's classes (although he has made the point that he only deals with the absolute basics/bumps etc) so cannot comment first hand on his ability to teach anyone else anything. What I will say in Brett's defence (and i'm sure this is where Isaac will shoot me down) is that Brett is willing to listen to people's opinions, take criticism and do what he can to improve himself both as a performer and as a teacher. He has never come across to me as a 'know it all' type who thinks that he is greater than anybody else in the business and nor have I ever heard him do anything but encourage people to do the best they can.

Brett works his gimmick as an 'Outbacker' - a kind of Bushwhackers style Aussie rip off and on the shows at which he is booked (all of which are family friendly shows with kids in attendance) his gimmick gets over with the fans at those shows and he works to the best of his ability. Personally I think there are a lot worse offenders out there than Brett and that he takes an awful lot of stick and abuse that is maybe not warranted. I would extend the offer of coming along and training with us at House of Pain to Brett and to any of the above mentioned guys both in my post and in the thread as a whole. Dave Rayne has also just extended this offer to attend Futureshock and therefore the lads based in Blackburn or surrounding areas would not have far to travel and the offer is there to attend some classes FOR FREE and maybe get yourselves onto the ladder in a good way. For anyone who has been to Futureshock lately you will see the sheer quality of some of the lads they have turned out includin young up and comer Josh Bodom who travels all the way from his home in SOUTHAMPTON to train at Futureshock! Now that is dedication!! (I also believe Disco Wes is a product of Futureshock....oh no hold on a minute....it's the real Sam Bailey, my mistake)

[robbo9292]

bloody hell Bodom travels then, now that is going out the way to pursue your dream fairplay to him and you for that good read

[uk_wrestle_fan_1981]

Yes we had a Doug Williams seminar, and Kris Travis did a seminar and our show in June. He will also be wrestling on our show on September 29th At the Library Theatre, and will again be running a training seminar from 2pm to 5pm at the theatre that day. I have been fortunate enough to train with Doug and Kris many times over the years, as well as doing many shows with them, and they are very talented individuals, but also very good trainers. Sabotage will also be on our Sept show, and did our August show, which was attended by Justin Richards

 

in reference to UKwrestlefan1981, we have only been open as a training school since October 2011 so it would be a bit early for a lot of our members, and likewise I am a bit reluctant to name names, as sometimes in cases and threads like this they can be made to pay for the sins of their trainer, and I do not want anyones name dragging through the mud because of me.

 

Our members have worked for a variety companies, both historically for some of the returning to wrestling members, and recently.

 

 

I dont wish to question your integrity, but perhaps your memory is incorrect UKwrestlefan1981, as again as part of our relationship with the ERDF, we are required to keep details of all of our attendances, individuals and various other details in regards to them for Monitoring purposes, to ensure we are engaging with a cross section, and to highlight areas of unique interaction, and possible socioeconomic development. During the audit it flagged up that 100% of our attendees have been present at 2 sessions or more.

 

 

Well then i'm afraid your records may be wrong as I can assure you I only attended the one class there whilst I was in Sheffield. I am not out to ruin your reputation, nor to enter into an argument with you, I personally found the class to be of a very low standard taught by someone whom I certainly did not feel was capable of teaching me anything that I did not already know

[Up Chuck]

Fun story: I've spoken to someone who's worked with that Nemesis fella.

 

He described him as "easily among the worst 3 wrestlers I've ever been in the ring with", which, knowing what this guy's had to deal with in the past, is quite something. He arrived an hour before the show to discover that him and Nemesis were on late in the first half. Nemesis walked up to him in full gear, leather trenchcoat and eye shadow. Like, an hour and a half before they even had to think about getting ready. He introduced himself with the following:

 

"Hi, I'm Nemesis, your opponent tonight. What's your finisher?"

 

Skip to later, he apparently blew up less than a minute into the match and forgot all the spots he'd wanted to include, then got huffy about the other guy taking control of the match. Sounds like a real pro!

[tenaciousd]

Fair play to some of the posters in this thread who have made a good go of putting on shows and establishing a decent product for the UK scene to be proud of. Can I ask, where did you start? In the same position as Ryan Lord of BWA? So why so quick to criticise if you've been in that position, knowing how hard it is? If anything, you should be trying to help out and give advice (if you really believe it's needed), rather than shitting on it from the start. You claim to want to help rejuvenate the UK scene, yet you want the entire market for yourself. You're the reason why an independent wrestling body wouldn't work - because you're not willing to help out.

 

Having seen footage from that first show, as well as reaction from many, Ryan can be proud in his accomplishment and getting BWA off the ground in a community-based exercise. Most of the people in attendance enjoyed the show and would return to the next one. The lighting and environment came off very good on the video, which I'm sure you will all watch when available, and there was nothing wrong with the matches, barring a couple of unfortunate injuries.

 

The rest of you - who are you, exactly? You're criticising a newly-started product by comparing it to another, more established product. Okay, lets compare MK Dons to Manchester United, shall we? You people in particular aren't helping at all. You're just fueling a fire, frustrated by the fact that you can't actually do anything to stop these promoters and promotions from trying to do the best they can, satisfied that despite your own misgivings, shitting on someone else's attempt to make a go of it gives you some purpose in this life.

 

Wrestling is still considered a sport in this country. Compare that with football, in terms of training and so on. The facts are, you DON'T have to be trained to have talent in either, and you can't stop people from doing what they want to do, in a backyard or anywhere else, for that matter. Imagine the FA banning kids from playing football in their back garden because they haven't got training from Michael Owen. Give me a break.

 

It all boils down to money, in my opinion. If you've got the silver spoon, great, you can afford the expense of training to come out with a certificate that means essentially nothing in the grand scheme of things, while those who can't afford it but have the raw passion for the business find alternate ways of doing what they love (which is something else some of you seem to forget - people love this business and aren't just in it to make money). But hey. Wrestling should just be for those who can afford it, right? Talent is either there or it isn't, and with some help, advice and a chance, some of these wrestlers would actually be on YOUR shows.

[thepigmanandyhogg]

Again not wishing to besmirch you character Ukwrestlefan1981, NCWA does not actually hold any training classes in Sheffield.

[robbo9292]

Fair play to some of the posters in this thread who have made a good go of putting on shows and establishing a decent product for the UK scene to be proud of. Can I ask, where did you start? In the same position as Ryan Lord of BWA? So why so quick to criticise if you've been in that position, knowing how hard it is? If anything, you should be trying to help out and give advice (if you really believe it's needed), rather than shitting on it from the start. You claim to want to help rejuvenate the UK scene, yet you want the entire market for yourself. You're the reason why an independent wrestling body wouldn't work - because you're not willing to help out.

 

Having seen footage from that first show, as well as reaction from many, Ryan can be proud in his accomplishment and getting BWA off the ground in a community-based exercise. Most of the people in attendance enjoyed the show and would return to the next one. The lighting and environment came off very good on the video, which I'm sure you will all watch when available, and there was nothing wrong with the matches, barring a couple of unfortunate injuries.

 

The rest of you - who are you, exactly? You're criticising a newly-started product by comparing it to another, more established product. Okay, lets compare MK Dons to Manchester United, shall we? You people in particular aren't helping at all. You're just fueling a fire, frustrated by the fact that you can't actually do anything to stop these promoters and promotions from trying to do the best they can, satisfied that despite your own misgivings, shitting on someone else's attempt to make a go of it gives you some purpose in this life.

 

Wrestling is still considered a sport in this country. Compare that with football, in terms of training and so on. The facts are, you DON'T have to be trained to have talent in either, and you can't stop people from doing what they want to do, in a backyard or anywhere else, for that matter. Imagine the FA banning kids from playing football in their back garden because they haven't got training from Michael Owen. Give me a break.

 

It all boils down to money, in my opinion. If you've got the silver spoon, great, you can afford the expense of training to come out with a certificate that means essentially nothing in the grand scheme of things, while those who can't afford it but have the raw passion for the business find alternate ways of doing what they love (which is something else some of you seem to forget - people love this business and aren't just in it to make money). But hey. Wrestling should just be for those who can afford it, right? Talent is either there or it isn't, and with some help, advice and a chance, some of these wrestlers would actually be on YOUR shows.

 

1: from seeing parts of that video the attendance was mainly kids, so they are going to want to return to watch more wrestling

2: Wrestling isn't considered a sport unless you are talking Greco-Roman, Catch or Freestyle wrestling, not professional wrestling.

3: People who play football get trained, kids start out by paying to train as well so yes you do have to be trained. No one said they are trying to stop people, however it would be the best thing to do to stop further injuries (severe ones) or even death. Plus the thing about banning backyard is daft, no one is trying to stop that.

4: You called it a business yet you say people aren't in it to make money? That's what businesses do, make money. How are you going to be successful if you aren't making money?

 

and i haven't highlighted the last part but these wrestlers have just said that the people listed and their trainees can come to a "FREE" training session from respectable schools.

[TheHarveyDale]

Fair play to some of the posters in this thread who have made a good go of putting on shows and establishing a decent product for the UK scene to be proud of. Can I ask, where did you start? In the same position as Ryan Lord of BWA? So why so quick to criticise if you've been in that position, knowing how hard it is? If anything, you should be trying to help out and give advice (if you really believe it's needed), rather than shitting on it from the start. You claim to want to help rejuvenate the UK scene, yet you want the entire market for yourself. You're the reason why an independent wrestling body wouldn't work - because you're not willing to help out.

 

Can I ask who I am talking to? I find one of the hardest ways to communicate with someone is when they are hidden behind a username so you don't know who you are talking to. Feel free to PM me with the answer if you would prefer as it shall go no further than with me if you so wish.

 

To pick up on your point I have highlighted above, it seems that there are people willing to help out, I for one am always on hand, very easy to get hold of on twitter @TheHarveyDale or on facebook 'Harvey Dale' - Dunny from NGW and Dave Rayne from Futureshock have also offered to help out with anyone by offering any of the students a chance to attend their training schools for free, so that also takes out the not being able to afford it issue. Any of the guys in question are able to get themselves to shows when needs be, right across the North West so if the offer is there for them to attend decent training for free then there should be no problem in them getting along to attend.

[uk_wrestle_fan_1981]

Again not wishing to besmirch you character Ukwrestlefan1981, NCWA does not actually hold any training classes in Sheffield.

 

The class was run in a gym just south of Sheffield in a place that's name I cannot even remember as am not from your area. It was run by yourself, so if it wasn't under the NCWA title then it was something else that you have run or do run.

[TheHarveyDale]

Fun story: I've spoken to someone who's worked with that Nemesis fella.

 

He described him as "easily among the worst 3 wrestlers I've ever been in the ring with", which, knowing what this guy's had to deal with in the past, is quite something. He arrived an hour before the show to discover that him and Nemesis were on late in the first half. Nemesis walked up to him in full gear, leather trenchcoat and eye shadow. Like, an hour and a half before they even had to think about getting ready. He introduced himself with the following:

 

"Hi, I'm Nemesis, your opponent tonight. What's your finisher?"

 

Skip to later, he apparently blew up less than a minute into the match and forgot all the spots he'd wanted to include, then got huffy about the other guy taking control of the match. Sounds like a real pro!

 

God, don't get me started on that guy again! I've tried to stay in a diplomatic frame of mind this afternoon so far! lol

[tenaciousd]

I touched on the fact that 'Markout Wrestling' run by Corey Carver over in Blackburn used Bubblegum and Joey Hayes on their first show, yes they also used some of the guys whose names are thrown around on a daily basis as being 'shit arses' or 'divs' but simply by having the initiative to seek out 2 of the UK's very best workers to be on your debut show definitely deserves some credit. I have met Corey on a number of occasions and have found him to be an intelligent, reasonable lad. It was bought to my attention yesterday that on one of the Markout advertising pages used the term 'Don't bother with the bigger promotions, we are the best!' - this is a statement that I can obviously not agree with in any way and am actually stunned that it was said. Corey is competant enough at what he does inside the ring and I have never witnessed anything he does in person that I would deem to be unsafe.

 

This brings me on to the RWL - I know the lads involved with that are all reading this thread as it is all over facebook at the moment, I have said it to several of the guys involved that this stuff is a total nonsense, I stand by my opinion of that and don't feel the need to be 2 faced about anything and say that I have ever told them it is a good idea. That stuff floating around on youtube is one of the reasons why so many people get on your backs and tar you all with the same brush. If you want to go and practice your in ring stuff then go along and do so but keep the videos off the internet. I think that would be a start to solving your problems and the onslaught of abuse you get from people.

 

To touch on some of the other guys mentioned or indeed not mentioned so far in this thread, I am probably in the minority of people who has actually seen these guys work in the flesh aswell as seeing the videos of them posted up on youtube. I have see Lewis O'Brien on 4 seperate occasions and certainly would not consider him to be 'void of all talent' as I think was mentioned earlier, in fact the lad clearly had some ability, as do 2 other guys working as 'The Yobz' - they are Tom Baron and James McPhail, all 3, to my knowledge, have never really attended any training schools and are all self taught - which I am not saying is a good way to go, but just imagine how good these lads could be if they actually got the psychology side of the business aswell as just being able to do all the fancy flips and high spots! These guys are all capable of working and in an academy show environment would stand out as being excellent. When I spoke personally to one of them he explained to me that it is not through lack of wanting to better themselves or to attend decent training but down to finances, they live in a struggling area of Blackburn where there is not the financial freedom to allow them to travel across to one of the decent schools so in that respect at least I do have some sympathy with them and believe that for not having had the opportunities in life or the luxury of a great training school in their imediate area then they have done the best with what they can do. I do stand by my opinion that RWL is something they need to put a stop to though.

 

I hadn't read this as was replying, but this holds a lot of significance in it, for me. I know Corey, Lewis, James and Tom personally, and would back them to make it onto the aforementioned "bigger shows" in an instant, and I'm not saying that to suck up or because they are friends - they have legitimate talent that is not given a chance simply because of the stigma attached to not having proper training, etc. They are self-taught, and have been doing this for a lot longer than you might think.

 

Corey did bring Bubblegum and Joey Hayes into Markout Wrestling's first show, ran in Blackburn (the nearest wrestling shows to this are PCW and Futureshock, to my knowledge), while Lewis O'Brien faced those two for the title, and the YOBz facing the Outbackers in the semi-Main. Corey is, again, working within the parameters of a strict budget, while trying to put something on that the whole community can enjoy, but again, people just see what they see and want to shit on it all because it doesn't match their standards or specific requirements.

 

And while you say RWL has no place on the internet, one of the main reasons RWL is on there is to show people that you don't have to have a fancy certificate to be a good entertainer. It also gives the people on these shows the chance to watch their matches back, take notes and improve over time - something all three of the aforementioned guys have done over the past 3/4 years in particular.

 

1: from seeing parts of that video the attendance was mainly kids, so they are going to want to return to watch more wrestling

 

I'm not entirely sure what the exact attendance figure was, but I can bank on there being more adults than children there. I do recall seeing many kids in the well-lit areas of the video, while many sat at the front for that extra experience. (It's probably worth noting that wrestling is being pushed on children again, thanks largely to the WWE, so when a show comes on and is advertised as 'Family Friendly', I wouldn't be surprised to see many children at events such as this.)

 

2: Wrestling isn't considered a sport unless you are talking Greco-Roman, Catch or Freestyle wrestling, not professional wrestling.

 

According to whom?

 

3: People who play football get trained, kids start out by paying to train as well so yes you do have to be trained. No one said they are trying to stop people, however it would be the best thing to do to stop further injuries (severe ones) or even death. Plus the thing about banning backyard is daft, no one is trying to stop that.

 

Kids start out by playing football because they love it. They also receive training (to an extent) at school. The school, or a scout, can spot that talent as being something special, which in turn can lead to a professional club coming to watch them and offering them a spot at the club, in the academy, or wherever. Money does not necessarily have to be paid if the talent is there to see.

 

4: You called it a business yet you say people aren't in it to make money? That's what businesses do, make money. How are you going to be successful if you aren't making money?

 

and i haven't highlighted the last part but these wrestlers have just said that the people listed and their trainees can come to a "FREE" training session from respectable schools.

 

It's not hard to fathom that some people are in this just because of the passion they have. Breaking even should always be at the top of the objectives list, but even if you make a small loss, at least you know you've put on a great show that people have enjoyed and given some decent talent a chance to do what they love.

 

(And yes, I was midway through my post when that one went up, and have to say I applaud that offer to those lads. Very courteous.)

 

Can I ask who I am talking to? I find one of the hardest ways to communicate with someone is when they are hidden behind a username so you don't know who you are talking to. Feel free to PM me with the answer if you would prefer as it shall go no further than with me if you so wish.

 

To pick up on your point I have highlighted above, it seems that there are people willing to help out, I for one am always on hand, very easy to get hold of on twitter @TheHarveyDale or on facebook 'Harvey Dale' - Dunny from NGW and Dave Rayne from Futureshock have also offered to help out with anyone by offering any of the students a chance to attend their training schools for free, so that also takes out the not being able to afford it issue. Any of the guys in question are able to get themselves to shows when needs be, right across the North West so if the offer is there for them to attend decent training for free then there should be no problem in them getting along to attend.

 

Apologies. It's an old username.

 

I'm Mark (@he6rt6gr6m). I do a lot of editing for the RWL stuff and ring announced for Markout. As I've said, I know those fellas very well, and back up everything they've told you about opportunities in this area, as well as the lack of finance. In fairness, the town is on its knees at the moment.

 

A lot of this thread has just been one criticism after another of these lads and the shows around the country that might be in a similar position to us without even trying to understand how hard this sort of thing can be in a town such as this. You, in fairness, seem to understand that.

[robbo9292]

My first point wasn't shitting on them, i expect to see more kids at shows myself as well even if some kids in certain areas are complete pains in the backsides. The point of wrestling isn't a sport and your question can come back to you though, who claims it as a sport, it's more a form of entertainment than a sport. Yes that does bring up the term sports entertainment. The football is a hard one and irrelevant thing anyway but i was thinking more kids go to school (and i know schools that charge for training) but can also go for kids league teams (in which they do have they pay). I also know that people are in wrestling because of the passion, thats why everyone if not most of them get into it but like i said it is about making money thats for the company and wrestlers alike. As people say paying for your own travel to venues, etc isn't what you should be doing unless you are getting paid in return. Oh and to go onto the other point, if they don't have the money/the area is is on its knees i wouldn't try and promote there because i'd expect little money to come in as people wouldn't/shouldn't want to spend money on something that isn't a necessity.

 

Like i've said to Mr. Dale, i myself would love to travel and watch shows, however as i don't have a job i obviously can't and don't travel. Once i get a job, i'm going to work my ass off with that, get money coming in and hopefully travel to watch shows along with maybe training in some different areas.

[TheHarveyDale]

And while you say RWL has no place on the internet, one of the main reasons RWL is on there is to show people that you don't have to have a fancy certificate to be a good entertainer. It also gives the people on these shows the chance to watch their matches back, take notes and improve over time - something all three of the aforementioned guys have done over the past 3/4 years in particular.

 

Well unfortunately I know first hand that RWL is a huge contributing factor as to why none of the lads will get bookings at any major promotions. I put Tom & James forward to a couple of promoters that I have dealings with on a regular basis, they said they would take a look at them, both messaged me back saying they would not use anyone associated with 'that crap in a warehouse' .

 

I have said all I can say on that front so no point harping on but until the guys take some advice and quit with that one I fear the abuse will only get worse. There are plenty of ways to tape your matches and let them watch them back in order to learn without them needing to be in the public eye on a place like youtube. With the offer of free training at Futureshock for the lads in your area that should be all of the learning they need to really make something of themselves.