UFC 152: 'Jones vs Belfort'

[Bus Surfer]

Chael may have trained, but do you seriously think he's had a full 8 week camp like Jones has had? How long do you think he's known Hendo was out, David?

That doesn't matter, does it? He's not coming in to this fight straight from his couch. He's said before that he trains constantly, so he'll be in decent shape.

 

I stand by my opinion posted in the actual event thread as far as Jones goes. He made the correct choice.

 

What? It doesn't matter that he's not had a full training camp? If he's been working closely with Hendo as you say, it'll be more towards getting Hendo ready for his fight which was a week away, not preparing for his fight 4 months down the line. There's a big difference between keeping yourself in shape and being in a full training camp.

 

I'll stand by my opinion too, thanks.

 

Just from the point of view, that although he's not trained for Chael, he's had a full camp training for a wrestler (and arguably tougher fight overall). Chael is not in fight shape, has had zero training camp and we have no idea what his weight is at. If Jones were to lose, he'd likely get an immediate rematch, if Chael loses, he just took a fight on a weeks notice and will likely get another shot anyways, which has an automatic story going in to it and likely a bigger buy rate overall.

 

Like I said, Jones can make his own decisions, but when you stack everything up, the odds of him beating Sonnen were massively in his favour. His purse (which he's apparently been worried about) would have been a lot bigger, and any eventual rematch with Chael would have been massive.

[wandshogun09]

I think Jones and Jackson probably see Chael as a future challenger and think they can cash in against Chael down the line with a full hype job and the UFC promotional machine behind it.

 

Problem is Chael could lose before then. Forrest Griffin, for his faults, is no gimme. And if Chael gets by him he'll probably have to beat one or two top 205ers.

 

Just imagine though, if Jones beats Belfort and maybe Machida. Chael beats Forrest and say Shogun after, all the while talking shit about Jones like he did with Anderson.

 

Then Jones vs Sonnen. Imagine a 3 part Primetime on that after all this stuff that's went on? Imagine the press conference. Chael cruising about with 'his title' again. The weigh in. The atmosphere on fight night.

 

A lot of ifs though. But just imagine.

 

Watch now, Belfort by KO round 1.

[METAL ON METAL]

Watch now, Belfort by KO round 1.

 

Here's hoping.

 

If that did happen though, imagine the smile on Dana & Lorenzo's faces. Hell, Joe Silva would probably get a semi!

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Chael may have trained, but do you seriously think he's had a full 8 week camp like Jones has had? How long do you think he's known Hendo was out, David?

According to MMA Torch, Hendo knew he was injured 3 weeks ago but opted to try and push through and not inform UFC he was hurt. There's your real scapegoat.

[The Natural]

Great post to start the thread with wandshogun09. Well done.

 

I'm most interested in seeing Jon Jones vs Vitor Belfort, Joseph Benavidez vs Demetrious Johnson and Michael Bisping vs Brian Stann. Early predictions are Jones by TKO in three, Benavidez by decision (wouldn't be surprised if Benavidez stops him) and Bisping by decision. Hope Belfort wins.

[Bus Surfer]

Chael may have trained, but do you seriously think he's had a full 8 week camp like Jones has had? How long do you think he's known Hendo was out, David?

According to MMA Torch, Hendo knew he was injured 3 weeks ago but opted to try and push through and not inform UFC he was hurt. There's your real scapegoat.

 

 

If it's been known for that long, Hendo needs to come out and hold his hands up. Surely if the UFC were aware of the injury and enquired about a replacement for September 2nd at that point, we wouldn't have had this situation.

 

Still, I stand by the fact that the odds were stacked in Jones' favour.

[David]

If it's been known for that long, Hendo needs to come out and hold his hands up. Surely if the UFC were aware of the injury and enquired about a replacement for September 2nd at that point, we wouldn't have had this situation.

 

Still, I stand by the fact that the odds were stacked in Jones' favour.

It doesn't matter if the odds are stacked in Jones favour or not, you don't change opponents with three days prep time when you're defending the fucking light-heavyweight title of the world! It's just not the done thing!

 

As I keep saying, you wouldn't expect a top level boxer such as Klitschko or Mayweather to do it, so why expect an MMA fighter to do it? It's not 1997 anymore.

[Bus Surfer]

As I keep saying, you wouldn't expect a top level boxer such as Klitschko or Mayweather to do it, so why expect an MMA fighter to do it? It's not 1997 anymore.

 

 

Weren't you saying yesterday that it didn't matter that Chael only had a few days notice though? So, It's Ok for one side, but not the other then?

 

If you look at it, the fight Jones has now with Belfort is riskier and worth less financially than the fight with Sonnen would have been. The only time Jones has been troubled is by a Striker, Belfort fits that mould. Every wrestler he's faced hasn't been able to do anything against him at all. Do you not see that?

 

Again, I'll say what I said yesterday. It's his decision. But as the majority of the MMA media and people on here have said, it was probably the wrong decision.

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and you said this a few days ago:

 

 

None of that is Jon Jones' problem.

You heard any of the conference call going on just now? I'd say it's Jon Jones problem in a big way.

 

Do you just argue for the sake of it?

[twelve_grand]

EDIT. Wrong thread.

[Egg Shen]

with the news of the Hendo injury happening 3 weeks back it all makes sense that Chael started talking shit about Jones, i had a feeling something was up. I posted somewhere that i thought Jones' camp cottoned on when they took down all the tweets back at Chael. I think the Team Quest guys were playing a bit of a game and thought they might be able to sneak Sonnen in the back door, it obviously back fired. If Hendo was hurt too he probably should have informed the UFC, they could have informed Jones and they could have had a replacement lined up and we wouldn't be left with the mess we have.

 

But having said that, going forward this is probably a good thing. I don't think we'll ever see a '1 fight' PPV again.

[Polish Dad]

None of that is Jon Jones' problem.

You heard any of the conference call going on just now? I'd say it's Jon Jones problem in a big way.

 

Do you just argue for the sake of it?

 

Eh, the way I read that is that it's Jon Jones' problem BECAUSE of the shit he's getting in with Dana because of it. It's his problem, but he's not at fault. If that makes sense.

[Bus Surfer]

How can it be his problem if he's deemed not responsible? That's the way I read it.

[David]

Weren't you saying yesterday that it didn't matter that Chael only had a few days notice though? So, It's Ok for one side, but not the other then?

It is when the other side has fuck all to lose from the siituation. Drawing the boxing comparison again, if Mayweather's opponent pulled out and was replaced by a fighter who has fought consistently for years at twenty pounds lighter it would be the exact same.

 

If you look at it, the fight Jones has now with Belfort is riskier and worth less financially than the fight with Sonnen would have been. The only time Jones has been troubled is by a Striker, Belfort fits that mould. Every wrestler he's faced hasn't been able to do anything against him at all. Do you not see that?

Make no mistake about it, Jones will beat Belfort. He'll beat Sonnen as well. Both opponents have nothing more than a punchers chance really, and Belfort's modus operandi is to start quickly then crumble once he realises he's not going to knock out his opponent sharpish.

 

The way things stand he'll make some money from the Belfort fight, and still have the Sonnen & Machida fights in the bank at a later date, with proper build and hype. You can bet that Sonnen will do his best to hype the fight with all his usual antics, which makes Jones more money as well.

 

Again, I'll say what I said yesterday. It's his decision. But as the majority of the MMA media and people on here have said, it was probably the wrong decision.

What MMA media have you been listening to or reading? Thus far Mauro Ranallo has agreed that Jones didn't have to take the fight and agreed with Greg Jackson when he interviewed him. Sherdog radio and it's various MMA radio shows hosts such as Jordan Breen have said the same thing.

 

Oh yeah, and you said this a few days ago:

None of that is Jon Jones' problem.

You heard any of the conference call going on just now? I'd say it's Jon Jones problem in a big way.

I haven't said that the UFC aren't going to make things difficult for Jones, have I? It is his problem whichever way you want to carve it up, but that's because he's working with a company that is finding it difficult making the transition from one which promoted a small-time, niche sport that featured fighters who were happy to fight anytime, anywhere simply to make some money to pay their bills to a company that actually has to deal with the result of the sport growing. UFC fighters are now high end athletes who have many business interests and who can basically pick and choose when to fight and where to fight.

 

I have no doubt that Jones will have to deal with the headache that is Dana White, that's not up for debate at all.

 

EDIT:

Eh, the way I read that is that it's Jon Jones' problem BECAUSE of the shit he's getting in with Dana because of it. It's his problem, but he's not at fault. If that makes sense.

Exactly.

[Bus Surfer]

Again, I'll say what I said yesterday. It's his decision. But as the majority of the MMA media and people on here have said, it was probably the wrong decision.

What MMA media have you been listening to or reading? Thus far Mauro Ranallo has agreed that Jones didn't have to take the fight and agreed with Greg Jackson when he interviewed him. Sherdog radio and it's various MMA radio shows hosts such as Jordan Breen have said the same thing.

 

 

I've been reading an MMA Junkie article Here, MMA Fighting's article Here, Frankie Edgar's ESPN piece Here, and various other fighter tweets that can be found on Twitter. Plus, I didn't say he was morally obligated to take it, I said it was favourable for him to take it.

 

Make no mistake about it, Jones will beat Belfort. He'll beat Sonnen as well. Both opponents have nothing more than a punchers chance really, and Belfort's modus operandi is to start quickly then crumble once he realises he's not going to knock out his opponent sharpish.

 

The way things stand he'll make some money from the Belfort fight, and still have the Sonnen & Machida fights in the bank at a later date, with proper build and hype. You can bet that Sonnen will do his best to hype the fight with all his usual antics, which makes Jones more money as well.

 

You said yourself in the other thread that there is a chance the UFC won't make the Sonnen/Jones fight down the line, because of this. Plus there's the fact that Sonnen may fall at the first hurdle and get no where near a title shot, potentially wiping out any big pay day that Jones saw on the horizon by not taking the fight now.

 

We won't agree, but I still feel he's at a worse end by not taking this fight. Now he's got an opponent who could possibly land something that could cause him trouble, has a month to prepare, and will make considerably less money off of it.

 

As far as the 'Not responsible comment', I shall happily withdraw it.

[lambyUK]

David, my major problem with your boxing comparison is simple, the UFC. These boxers don't fight for a particular organisation and thus have more control. The UFC are Jon Jones' employers and whilst I do believe in freedom of choice, under the circumstances, if said employers found an opponent to fight on the night and within suitable reason ie from a ppv POV, then that person should have to fulfil their contract.