UFC 145: 'Jones vs Evans' Discussion Thread

[wandshogun09]

 

Ha, that's fucking quality.

 

The show was decent in the end but it was a bit of a mixed bag for me. Some fights that I was sure would be exciting weren't much cop. Njokuani/Makdessi and the Maximo Blanco fight in particular fell a tad short for me. There was nothing wrong with the Njokuani fight but it just never heated up like I expected.

 

Jones vs Rashad

It wasn't exactly action packed but I don't think anyone really expected a fast paced, FOTY type fight. It's not Rashad's style to get into wars and Jones fights at a pretty deliberate pace too so it went about how I expected.

 

I was a bit disappointed to see how little Rashad was able to do to Jones though. I really hoped he'd be able to put him in some tough positions but Jones once again looked fucking scary.

 

Personally, I think Rashad got too caught up in the thought of knocking Jones out. The last time Rashad fought in Atlanta was the Chuck fight and it seemed like he was trying to recreate that night. Right down to using the same walk in song. And then pretty much just looking for that big overhand right all night hoping it would work like it did vs Chuck.

 

The problem is, 2012 Jones isn't 2008 Liddell. And I think by the time Rashad realized the one shot KO wasn't gonna happen, Jones had fucked him up with the elbows and body kicks. Then he was trying half hearted takedowns cos he didn't have enough left to complete them.

 

Not saying he'd have won, but I think he could have done a bit better if he mixed it up right from the off. He was getting through with some of them big punches even with his one track gameplan, imagine if he'd have tried to mix in takedowns from the start when he was fresh. Or at least takedown attempts/feints to keep Bones on edge.

 

It's all pointless excuse making though. Jones dominated. You could see it on Rashad's face after 2 or 3 rounds, seemed like he realized that he was facing a different Jon Jones than the one he sparred with . If you could see his thoughts in a speech bubble like in the cartoons it would have probably said along them lines.

 

As much a huge fan of Hendo as I am, he won't beat Jones. He's in the same boat Rampage was for me, a puncher's chance and not much else. I don't see anyone beating him at 205 for some time. I'd still give Machida the best shot if they ever rematch but that doesn't mean I'd expect him to win either. Gutafsson I'm not sure about, I need to see more of him.

 

Rest of the card

 

Rory vs Che Mills

Rory's another really scary young fighter. Aside from the loss to Condit, he's pretty much been to the WW division what Jones was at LHW in 2009/10.

 

Che got off to a decent start landing some good strikes but after that Rory just fucking destroyed him. As great as he looked I still think he won't get the credit he deserves for how good a performance that was. Mainly cos a lot of people don't really know much about Mills outside the UK. To do that to a fighter the calibre of Che Mills is incredible.

 

Rothwell vs Schaub

Well, I was critical of this fight ever since it was announced. I didn't think they deserved a main card spot considering they were both coming off lopsided losses. Plus, I've never liked Schaub and going off Rothwell's last few fights I wasn't expecting much out of him to be honest. I envisioned a 3 round, sloppy, boring mess of a fight.

 

What we got was a motivated, in shape, Ben Rothwell knock the fuck out of Schaub in 70 seconds. Lovely.

 

Rothwell's physique really shocked me. I never saw him at the weigh in, I only watched the Jones/Rashad bit so the first time I saw him was in the cage. Gotta give credit to him for the shape he's got himself into.

 

McDonald vs Torres

McDonald's been impressing everyone for a while now but this was his coming out party for sure. Torres has been on the decline ever since Bowles shattered his hype. He's a good fighter but he's never really recovered from them back to back stoppage losses to Bowles and Benavidez.

 

Really good finish. McDonald was sharp throughout and Torres never really got into the fight at all. Somewhere, Frank Mir is crying himself to sleep with a picture of his little Mexican friend on his pillow.

 

Hominick vs Yagin

This was a wild fight. You've gotta love Hominick, he's got as much heart as anyone in MMA. Them first 2 rounds were proper rough, I didn't think he was gonna survive some of them bombs on the ground.

 

Where the fuck did Yagin spring from? I think I saw his last UFC fight and I wasn't all that impressed. He fought out of his skin last night and defo deserved the decision. His technique's not the best you'll see but he makes up for it with brute power and constant aggression.

 

Hominick's comeback in round 3 was great, I was begging for one of them shots to put Yagin away right down to the last 30 seconds but Yagin's got a chin on him.

 

Cracking fight, a war all the way.

 

Browne vs Griggs

Perfect performance from Browne. I've never really been blown away by him before but this was the best he's looked to me. Griggs is no walkover but Browne did walk over him. That flying knee was brutal, I can't believe someone that big can throw a flying knee just like Jose Aldo. Mental.

 

Nice submission finish too.

 

Brown vs Thompson

Another war. Brown derailed the Wonderboy train for sure. He exposed how one dimensional Thomspon is and battered him at times on the ground. Brown did better than I thought in the striking exchanged too.

 

I like Thompson's style but there's no two ways about it he needs work on his grappling. If he's struggling with and losing convinicingly to guys like Brown, who let's be honest, is pretty much a journeyman albeit fun to watch, then I think the hype on him was a bit premature.

 

Not a knock on him, he's only had a handful of MMA fights, I'm sure he'll improve. He made a good fight of it at least and had Brown on jelly legs a few times.

 

I'm not sure what my FOTN was between Hominick/Yagin and Brown/Thompson myself.

 

So yeah, pretty good show all in all. Clements/Wisniewski on the Facebook prelims was really good aswell. If you can track it down it's worth a watch.

 

A great night for the young monsters like Jones, Rory, Michael McDonald and Travis Browne.

[ColinBollocks]

The main event, sadly, went the way I expected. Like the Rampage fight, Evans appeared to lose confidence and heart mid-fight and Jones then dominated the rest of the fight. He's a super talent, but I hate Jones, such an arrogant tit - who also happens to be a bit dull. I'll lose my mind if Henderson is the one to finally teach him a lesson.

 

Rory is destined for greatness. Not only does he have the tools needed, but he's has the likes of GSP in his ear. Great performance.

 

Oh, and that Prototype 2 trailer is awful.

[The Natural]

Can Henderson crack the code that is Bones Jones?

 

I don't think so but Henderson's got the H Bomb. Problem is hitting one with Jones's ridiculous reach.

 

 

Ha, that's fucking quality.

 

Glad you liked it. As good as it is, I think this might be better:

 

[mickfan]

Great to see Big Ben knock the arrogant Schaub out. Think Schaub would be better served at light heavy, he'll never climb the ranks with his size.

 

Danzig's fight with Escudero was ok. Seemed to get caught in a heel hook but his good work in the clinch and his takedown defence won him the fight comfortably. I love Danzig.

 

The main event played out as expected. Just a dominating performance by Jones. Rashad seemed scared, nervous and tense all the way through the fight. Jones is always so relaxed and got the job done professionally. Can see him dominating the division for years like Silva or GSP.

 

Travis Browne's dominance really, really impressed me. His roughneck takedown and sub proper impressed me.

[Lawz]

Really don't get the hate for Jon Jones, heres a kid who at 24 has defeated Shogun, Rampage and now Rashad and people dislike him because he's cocky? He's the most spectacular athelete I've seen in a long long while, comes up with crazy ways to strike and use his body and raises the bar when he fights, prior to the Rashad fight he'd been stopping everyone in fights since he won the belt till he defended it. For me he's a classy fighter, respectable of course he has a bit of a arrogance but who wouldnt with his talents/achievements. I think Rashad is way more arrogant than Jones personally and yet for some reason people love Rashad but dislike Jones, doesnt add up.

 

I thought the fight was good, almost like a chess match at times, the elbows in the 2nd were crucial to Jones dominating the fight and letting Evans know he had no chance of winning, scary power and speed to throw elbows that fast and accurately. I don't think Henderson stands a chance against Jones, I think we'll see Jones demolish Henderson like he did to Shogun, I dont think we even have heard of the guy who will be the guy to defeat Jones yet, he's miles ahead of everyone it seems.

[Egg Shen]

i'll chime in on the main event...

 

Ive got mixed feelings. On one hand you've gotta admire Jon Jones, his style is just unreal, it's almost risk-free, he stands so far out of range and he throws so many insane kinds of techiques that it almost renders the opponent useless. All Rashad had was his big right hand, i full expected Rashad to do better and i always thought Rashad would have the best chance at 205 of beating Jones but i was wrong.

 

For 1-2 rounds it seemed fairly even but after that it seemed like Rashad's confidence was just gone, after that it just seemed a cake-walk for Jones. Again it just all seems so risk-free, Rashad just couldn't penetrate Jones's style, Jones has that ability to make fighters worry so much about he's going to that they completely forget what they should be doing. The dude has now fought 4 great light heavyweights in a row and they've barely laid a glove on him.

 

Hendo-Jones at this point almost seems like a mis-match and Hendo's one of the greatest of all time it's kinda amazing but discouraging at the same time as a viewer. One thing Hendo does have going for him is his ridiculous toughness, i don't think Hendo will get caught in the headlights so to speak and let Jones dictate his mesmerising standup game, but outside of the big right hand i don't give him much of a chance.

 

The actual show for my money was pretty poor, the FX prelims started poorly. Brown/Thompson was kinda scrappy fun and Travis Browne did his thing. The Bocek/Allessio fight was slow and kinda one sided and until the Yagin/Hominick fight i felt a little underwhelmed, luckily it picked up up from there before ending kinda flat.

[Snake Plissken]

I don't why so many people are surprised by Rashad losing. It was never going to go any other way, the same with Henderson. They will try and build it up but Jones doesn't have a match in the division right now. Maybe Gustavsson, but not for a least for 12 months.

 

After Brownes fight, Id like to see him face Mark Hunt next.

[wandshogun09]

I don't why so many people are surprised by Rashad losing. It was never going to go any other way, the same with Henderson. They will try and build it up but Jones doesn't have a match in the division right now. Maybe Gustavsson, but not for a least for 12 months.

 

After Brownes fight, Id like to see him face Mark Hunt next.

 

I don't think anyone's really surprised at Rashad losing. There really wasn't many people giving Rashad much of a chance to win going in. I just think people didn't expect it to be quite as one sided as it was. Even as good as Jones is I think people thought Rashad could at least make it competitive.

 

For me, after seeing him repeatedly take down a top wrestler like Phil Davis, I was hoping he would try to go more that route for this fight, he tried takedowns once or twice but by then it was too late and he'd taken too much damage.

 

Obviously it would be tougher with Jones because although Davis is a more accomplished wrestler, Jones' reach is much longer and his striking is far superior to Davis'. I didn't picture Rashad trying to box with Jones for most of the fight.

 

As for Browne, I'd like to see him slotted into UFC 146 myself. With Bigfoot getting paired with Cain, Roy Nelson is without an opponent and that's a logical step up fight for Browne.

[444 4444]

I can't believe no one mentioned this!

 

 

What the frack?

[wandshogun09]

Haha yeah that slipped my mind. That was the best bit of the fight sadly. I really had high hopes for that fight going in.

[Egg Shen]

yeh, Blanco's now lost at 155 and 145 over in the States. Another case of the top fighters from the Japanese promotions just not competing

[Egg Shen]

loved Ben Rothwell's win. He's always had a reputation as being a guy who appreciates his fans, back in the IFL days he was a regular poster on the forums and stuff and 145 seemed like a bit of a coming out party for him. His UFC run has been really poor until Saturday and i felt Schaub just played right into his game. You can't try and out-tough a guy like Ben Rothwell when you've got a shaky chin like Schaub and he paid dearly. Lots of people hate on Schaub and i do at times even though he does seem a decent guy, but it's tough to see where he goes from here, he'll get one more shot but he needs to rethink his style.

[wandshogun09]

Was just reading Sherdog (yeah, i know), and I came across this rare intelligent post. Kinda makes me think about Jones' personality a little bit

 

Jones has always come across as cordial. He also has always come across as the little brother who feels a genuine sense of accomplishment when he achieves something. As a little brother myself, I can see this- you watch your older sibling do something that you are simply incapable of doing, and when you accomplish that same goal, its pretty huge, more so than something you accomplished that your brother never tried doing.

 

Seeing the way Jones acts, I can very much relate to it- he is VERY proud of what he's accomplished but only because he looks up to those he earns those accomplishments from. Without a doubt he believes himself a better fighter than Rashad, but at the same time he lived for a period of time in Rashad's shadow looking up at him as an amazing guy who he hoped to one day be as good as. Post-fight presser showed that, he was as humble as ever, as respectful as ever, and as awkward as ever at times.

 

Remember- we all look at this guy as an indestructible tornado that seemingly walked through a LOT of top level fighters. I can guarantee you he still see's a lot of himself as that gangly, un-muscled, un-coordinated kid that not only got owned by his big brothers all the time, but also sucked at the things he tried to imitate them doing (most sports.) We're seeing a young adult mature and I think more so with the Rashad fight than any other, we're seeing it sink in to himself that he actually really is THAT good. Not that he looked down at his previous opponents, but beating a guy that "big-brothered him" (that term struck me as very particular for a reason) in training is something that just transcends his other victories, regardless of what it means to 'us' out here. He didnt just win a fight- he beat a role model, a big brother, a guy who he looked up to as a person and an athlete. That's pretty damn big.

 

I still think he comes off as cocky and maybe even a bit fake but this post does make sense to me. Which for anyone familiar with the complete mouth breathers that populate Sherdog, a post on there that makes sense is like a Jeremy Kyle guest with all their teeth. It's that rare.

 

On Lawz post, I see where you're coming from but to me Rashad's cockiness seems kind of tongue in cheek to me. Even back when he was on TUF 2 he was doing the showboating in fights but he was pretty cool in the house and you'd never hear a bad word about him from the other fighters who lived with him. He came off well on TUF10 aswell. It's a matter of personal taste I suppose.

 

I dunno with Jones, I think some of the criticism he gets is justified but some of it isn't. I think a lot of people take a dislike to him just because he fights out of Greg Jackson's gym and a lot of people don't like him so they dislike Jones out of association.

 

Also, as stupid as it sounds, I think a lot of people resent how quick he's risen to the top. I even saw some of that with Machida when he was on top and that certainly wasn't a case of the guy being cocky. People like to hate on success, especially when a guy is considered too young to deserve it and has run through favourites like Rampage, Shogun etc.

 

It's neither of them reasons for me, I dunno what it is. I don't strongly dislike him, he just seems proper arrogant to me. He's got good reason to be but where Rashad seems to be cocky and have fun with it, Jones comes off as legit cocky and serious about it in my opinion. That's just my personal take on it. He wasn't like that at all in his early UFC fights, it's only since about the Bader fight I noticed it. Like he's letting it get to his head. Maybe I've read him wrong.

 

I've always loved the way he fights, the first time I saw him was the Bonnar fight and it was one of them performances that blows you away. I've only felt that kind of first impression a handful of times. The first time I saw Wanderlei, Shogun, Rory MacDonald, Dos Santos fight were the same kind of thing for me.

 

It's easy to forget how young Jones is and how quick all this has happened for him. 3 or 4 years ago he was teaching himself moves off Youtube videos. Now he's the UFC champ. I don't care how cool he acts that's gotta be a lot of pressure to deal with. Maybe the 'cockiness' is just his way of dealing with it.

[lambyUK]

It's difficult to express just why I don't like JJ. I do believe he is cocky, but I've got nothing against cockiness. Evans, Rampage etc are cocky, but there is something believable about their cockiness.

 

Jones, however, just comes across as slimey cocky. I mean, even his post match celebration after the win against Evans with his team was irritating. He did this ridiculous dance move than made you just want to punch him.

 

Then, he ridiculous comments regarding god etc are annoying as well. His talk about his legacy and bringing in Muhammed Ali into his comparison. To me, he simply is dick, but at the same time an undeniably amazing fighter.

[ColinBollocks]

wandshogun09 makes a number of points that I agree with. There is always going to be a level of rejection by how much and fast UFC are shoving him down the fans throat. My biggest problem with him is his smugness, being cool and cocky (like Evans) is one thing but being smug completely turns me off. He's also a bit of a bland fucker, so he doesn't have the kind of personality to get past or even capitalize on his natural smugness. All of this combined makes him come across as one big phoney (like wand stated) when he's doing his big smile and respect act, you can tell deep down he's a bit of a knob.

 

Great fighter, mind.