Raw 05/03/2012 - Pre/Post Discussion

[Magnum]

The first two Rock history segments were good fun, he was a bit in 'Hollywood Rock' mode. I must say I resent the people on here saying you can't enjoy The Rock anymore because you're not 14, that's ridiculous. I don't enjoy The Rock is much as I used to, but to say folk who do have some growing up issues is a goal kick (or it's poor trolling). I've seen people on here enjoy stuff much worse than what The Rock has delivered in recent weeks and always post about bits of childhood nostalgia that they still enjoy, doesn't make them a sup-par person either.

 

Totally agree, and, let's be honest, it's not like wrestling is ever going to be Frasier-esque in terms of wit and originality. Most people have the capacity to enjoy more than one type of humour - I don't think it gets much better than Seinfeld, Father Ted and Curb Your Enthusiasm as far as legitimate comedy's concerned, but I can still on occasion laugh my tits off at juvenile shit like American Pie, Anchorman and old Johnny Bravo cartoons. The visual gag about Ron Burgundy's massive erection isn't exactly operating at a higher plain of comedy than even most Attitude era schtick, but I've seen plenty of adult professionals crack up at it.

 

As far as that Orton quote goes, I'm not sure whether it makes me think less of Cena now I know he's apparently personally responsible for all the drivel that's come out of his mouth over the last 6 or 7 years. I would expect Orton to support one of his own peers over The Rock, but I'm never going to personally agree with him or the UKFF Cena bandwagon. It's all about personal taste, and for mine The Rock beats Cena in every department.

[King Pitcos]

Orton was bang on with the "Cena will own The Rock... Cena is wittier and can go off the cuff" part, anyway.

[Dirty Eddie]

The first two Rock history segments were good fun, he was a bit in 'Hollywood Rock' mode. I must say I resent the people on here saying you can't enjoy The Rock anymore because you're not 14, that's ridiculous. I don't enjoy The Rock is much as I used to, but to say folk who do have some growing up issues is a goal kick (or it's poor trolling). I've seen people on here enjoy stuff much worse than what The Rock has delivered in recent weeks and always post about bits of childhood nostalgia that they still enjoy, doesn't make them a sup-par person either.

 

Totally agree, and, let's be honest, it's not like wrestling is ever going to be Frasier-esque in terms of wit and originality. Most people have the capacity to enjoy more than one type of humour - I don't think it gets much better than Seinfeld, Father Ted and Curb Your Enthusiasm as far as legitimate comedy's concerned, but I can still on occasion laugh my tits off at juvenile shit like American Pie, Anchorman and old Johnny Bravo cartoons. The visual gag about Ron Burgundy's massive erection isn't exactly operating at a higher plain of comedy than even most Attitude era schtick, but I've seen plenty of adult professionals crack up at it.

 

As far as that Orton quote goes, I'm not sure whether it makes me think less of Cena now I know he's apparently personally responsible for all the drivel that's come out of his mouth over the last 6 or 7 years. I would expect Orton to support one of his own peers over The Rock, but I'm never going to personally agree with him or the UKFF Cena bandwagon. It's all about personal taste, and for mine The Rock beats Cena in every department.

 

Completely agree with all of that.

 

Of course the material used is going to effect whether you enjoy people's promos or not, but for me it's all about the delivery. Will Ferrell reading lines from a script is always going to be better than Pauly Shore doing it, whether the material is any good or not. The Rock can go out there with any old crap and get the people wetting themselves. Also, people tend to ignore that a lot of Rock's sillier catchphrases started when he was a Heel. They were stupid things he say to wind people up, and by the time he turned Face they were just a part of his act.

 

I should point out (before others do) that I'm not in any way shitting on Cena's work the last few weeks, he's been very good. I like the way they are having Cena look stronger for a change, it needed that. I'm still sure we'll get the classic Rock promo before the PPV and probably not before then.

 

 

Anyway, team Bryan all the way!

[King Pitcos]

I'm still sure we'll get the classic Rock promo before the PPV and probably not before then.

Got three of them last night in the pre-tapes.

[Dirty Eddie]

I'm still sure we'll get the classic Rock promo before the PPV and probably not before then.

Got three of them last night in the pre-tapes.

That was the point though, right? They were just pre-tapes.

 

Last week he spent 20 minutes talking about twitter, then got owned by Cena, all while he had his script written on his wrist.

 

This week he mouthed off and ripped on Cena, but only on pre-tapes. Then he got owned again in person.

 

It's smart feud-building, giving Rock some weakness and trying to get some people further behind Cena. I still think we'll get one full-on, face to face, classic Rock promo in the last week before WM.

[The Cum Doctor]

Is it wrong that I'm enjoying John Cena making The Rock look like a fud practically every week?

 

The first pre-tape was GREAT fun though. Was a good episode of RAW and there wasn't anything I didn't enjoy, outside of the prospect of a Randy Orton vs. Kane match.

[Up Chuck]

Have I mentioned my idea of making Orton/Kane falls count anywhere? I think that'd be their best chance to do something fun - a nice walkabout all around the arena. Hell, how far is it from the beach? Orton punting Kane into the ocean would be great!

 

EDIT: 19 minutes drive, apparently. Not happening

[ItsClobberingTime]

Orton was bang on with the "Cena will own The Rock... Cena is wittier and can go off the cuff" part, anyway.

I would imagine it to be true, especially with Cena being on the mic on a regular basis, but it's difficult to tell what's been 'scripted' and what hasn't over the last few weeks. I suppose I like it that way though.

[Loki]

I'm still sure we'll get the classic Rock promo before the PPV and probably not before then.

Got three of them last night in the pre-tapes.

That was the point though, right? They were just pre-tapes.

 

Last week he spent 20 minutes talking about twitter, then got owned by Cena, all while he had his script written on his wrist.

 

This week he mouthed off and ripped on Cena, but only on pre-tapes. Then he got owned again in person.

 

It's smart feud-building, giving Rock some weakness and trying to get some people further behind Cena. I still think we'll get one full-on, face to face, classic Rock promo in the last week before WM.

 

I'm not sure I buy that conspiracy theory though. It'd be bloody clever if they were deliberately building in weakness to The Rock, but I think he's genuinely rusty, and Cena is genuinely better right now.

 

That could be me being a big ol' mark though. And why not.

[ColinBollocks]

I don't think The Rock is awful. It's just Cena is currently on career form and The Rock can't keep pace.

 

Interestingly, Meltzer is convinced they are working us and The Rock is trying to get Cena over by having Cena come out on top in all their verbal spats (similar to when Cena and Vince sold CM Punk's barbs in the Summer). I'm not sure if that is the case, or he's sticking up for his mate. We all know The Rock is 'business', so who knows.

[King Pitcos]

I still think we'll get one full-on, face to face, classic Rock promo in the last week before WM.

There's nowhere to go with that, though. Cena's already no-sold and taken the piss out of the standard Rock insults in this feud, so a classic Rock promo is a toothless at this point. Especially face to face. On that last week before WM, Cena won't suddenly pull debut-Jericho faces about being called a hermaphrodite or having his t-shirt mocked when he's been above it every week. That's the problem Rock faces, his traditional material about sexual orientation and juvenile insults used to be met with a furious Triple H agreeing to put the title on the line, selling it like a good heel. Cena just laughs at how lame it is.

 

It's pretty snide of Cena, actually, to do the "I want to see The Rock back!" stuff and pretend he's a superfan only attacking Hollywood Dwayne, when really he's completely exposing and cutting the legs off The Rock character's classic routine as well. He's basically forcing The Rock to evolve/freshen his act and not rely on what worked thirteen years ago (and turned fans against him ten years ago). I think that's what's got Dwayne on the back foot, figuring out what The Rock can say when the opponent won't cry about accusations of testicular absence and doesn't care if their top reminds someone of cereal.

 

Interestingly, Meltzer is convinced they are working us and The Rock is trying to get Cena over by having Cena come out on top in all their verbal spats (similar to when Cena and Vince sold CM Punk's barbs in the Summer). I'm not sure if that is the case, or he's sticking up for his mate. We all know The Rock is 'business', so who knows.

Keller reckons Rock takes too much pride in his promos to deliberately be shit. If there's genuine dislike between the two of them, it seems far-fetched that Rock would poopy on his own legacy a bit just to build up Cena when there are a million other ways they could go to hype the match. Fair fucks to him if he is doing it on purpose, like, it has been effective in sending people to Team Cena.

[Dirty Eddie]

I completely see what you are saying, Pity, but I'm with Da Meltz that this is all clever stuff to show Rock has a weakness and Cena won't look so raped after Wrestlemania.

 

I've seen plenty of clips of post-RAW tapings where Rock has ad-libbed with Austin for 15 minutes, getting cheers and laughs from the crowd. He's also a hoot whenever on any mainstream chat-shows. I seriously doubt that anyone is going to "flabbergast" the Rock and leave him stumbling his words. He's a complete natural on-camera and has shown loads of times that he can go off on things on the spot. It's great booking and quality delivery on both ends I think.

 

The giant prompts written in thick black marker pen on Rock's wrist pretty much gave the game away that this stuff is all a part of the plan. They are having Rock call Cena a see-through phoney, while actually painting Rock as the bullshitter.

[JLM]

Good show this week.

 

I thought HHH and HBK were both great in the opening bit. I find that both of them can actually start to bore me a bit when they do solo promos because they have quite a drawn out and laboured style, but they're both absolutely fantastic when they have someone to bounce off and react to and this was great. I don't think HBK as special ref for HIAC is necessary (unless they're seriously considering HHH vs HBK down the line?), but I don't have a huge problem with it if they don't overbook it.

 

I enjoyed the Rock's first pre-tape thing with the Cena merchandise. He was actually in character as The Rock for it and seemed to be enjoying himself too. The second and third ones weren't as strong but they weren't terrible either.

 

Santino vs Swagger was fun. Santino is still super over and I think this is a good way to capitalise on it. I don't give a shit about the belt and I certainly don't care about Swagger, but it still feels like a good win for everyone's favourite underdog. Teddy Long is utterly rubbish.

 

Eve vs. Alicia Fox was funny stuff. It was like one of the comedy slow down spots from an Ebessan match. That leg sweep should be called the Total Evelimination. I also liked Lawler going onto the Nickelodeon website to vote for Kelly Kelly in the kids choice awards. What a fucking creep. Eve is nice and over though. They have a decent heel character there and I hope it isn't just wasted on Kelly Kelly.

 

Michael Cole's line about Ryder being gone for a while and that line was all he could come up with is exactly what I was thinking when Ryder said it. I think that might be the first time Michael Cole has ever taken the words right out of my mouth. It was disconcerting.

 

John Cena's soliloquy could have been much worse if not for Cena delivering it very believably. It was still a bit goofy and awkward, but the content and delivery weren't bad. The LAW guys said it could just as easily have been done with an interviewer sat there to give him someone to talk at, and I think it would have helped.

 

Tag match was good, and the finish was the perfect result. Sheamus looked like a beast throughout as well.

 

Miz getting a new t-shirt in the middle of his current burial is a bit odd. Absolutely loving these Cody Rhodes mocking the Big Show skits. This week's in particular was hilarious. Well done to whoever edited that.

 

Kane is so boring. Go away please Kane. R-Truth is a bit adrift at the moment. Kane looked pretty stupid when he acknowledged and looked at Orton (who came out to his music) then turned away and then shockingly got RKO'd. That sneaky Viper. Still, Orton looked good and I hope this placeholder non-feud is kept short so he can get onto something worthwhile after Mania.

 

Closing segment was strong. Cena is on blistering form at the moment, and he used the ammo he was given last week very well. Rock did better than last week (I thought the bit about

[tiger_rick]

I'm not sure I buy that conspiracy theory though. It'd be bloody clever if they were deliberately building in weakness to The Rock

Completely agree here. If this is a genuine attempt to make John Cena look like he's on The Rock's level, it's genius. And it's working big time.

 

John Cena's soliloquy could have been much worse if not for Cena delivering it very believably. It was still a bit goofy and awkward, but the content and delivery weren't bad. The LAW guys said it could just as easily have been done with an interviewer sat there to give him someone to talk at, and I think it would have helped.

Agree with this too. JR drawing those rent-a-quote's from Cena would've worked so well.

[NEWM]

I just watched the end segment again as the wife likes to watch the Cena/Rock stuff. Fuck me, both guys are brilliant. I'm sticking with my belief that these promos are loosely based on the epic Bret/Shawn 97 series, which played on (some) viewers knowledge that these two loathed each other. Only in this case, it's all a nice work and any tension has been exquisitely manufactured. I'm coming round to the idea that The Rock is producing a world class acting performance lightyears beyond this wrestling shit, and he is indeed allowing Cena to look better to a) get him on the level for Mania and b) leave him as a big fucking deal after Mania.

 

I do think that is possibly not giving Cena enough credit, but I'm dazzled by how they've done it all the same. They had a brief exchange just before Rock left the ring which could have looked like Rock mouthing "not that bad?" or "fucking punk" depending on what I wanted to make up in my head at the very moment. I even think stuff like THAT is just a big work and we're in the presence of absolute greatness. I also enjoyed History Lesson #1 even more on second viewing, and it's convinced me that The Rock can switch on being The Rock just like *that* if he so chooses.

 

Previously, The Rock showed all the arse in the world by taking pinfalls to anybody that needed. As his tweets alluded to the other week, he understands the business bit of the business, and he's going one step further in helping develop Cena into the most competitive he can possibly be ahead of Wrestlemania.

 

To try and sum it up - as a wrestling fan who wants to be drawn into the story, I'm 100% behind Cena, looking forward to the Cena/Rock debate come Mania with my mates, and hope he wins. As nerdy internet fan who cares about on the other layer, I'm absolutely blinded by the brilliance of both guys, and the writers. And I think that's where I'm settled now, ahead of Mania. It will make every segment more enjoyable, too.