Kid Kash Re Signs For TNA

[Whiskey_Jim]

I believe the current politically correct term is

[Dirty Eddie]

I think your full of shit, I think most wrestling fans havent even heard of those promotions never mind watch them. Your entire argument is based around WWE having the most money, but at what point did WWE having the most money become an accident? They have consistanly put out the best wrestling for years which is why they are at the top. They have the best ratings which tells everyone that they have the most fans, and if they have the most fans then surely they are putting out the best product? Your doing the equivilant of a Wigan fan hating Man United, the be all end all is that you hate because you wish your team was at the top instead of them.... but they are not, because they are not as good.

 

You can't compare it to football, as that is real competition. If Wigan (or whoever) got a huge cash injection and added world class players, they could make their way to the top of the premiership, in time.

 

Wrestling is entertainment, it's all subjective as to "what is the best", and that isn't always the same thing as "what is most successful".

 

Does Michael bay make the "best" films in the world?

 

Were The Spice Girls the "best" musicians in the Uk in their time?

[Whiskey_Jim]

You can't compare it to football, as that is real competition. If Wigan (or whoever) got a huge cash injection and added world class players, they could make their way to the top of the premiership, in time.

 

Wrestling is entertainment, it's all subjective as to "what is the best", and that isn't always the same thing as "what is most successful".

 

Does Michael bay make the "best" films in the world?

 

Were The Spice Girls the "best" musicians in the Uk in their time?

WWE have not had a massive cash injection though, and have been making their own stars through their careful development system for years. There current level and financial posistion is not an accident and is a result of the product not the reason for it.

[Richie Freebird]

I think your full of shit, I think most wrestling fans havent even heard of those promotions never mind watch them. Your entire argument is based around WWE having the most money, but at what point did WWE having the most money become an accident? They have consistanly put out the best wrestling for years which is why they are at the top. They have the best ratings which tells everyone that they have the most fans, and if they have the most fans then surely they are putting out the best product? Your doing the equivilant of a Wigan fan hating Man United, the be all end all is that you hate because you wish your team was at the top instead of them.... but they are not, because they are not as good.

 

So do you stand by

[Whiskey_Jim]

fair points I suppose, I will however like to make it clear on my belief that WWE is on top and the richest promotion on merit not because of any financial advantage

[Richie Freebird]

fair points I suppose, I will however like to make it clear on my belief that WWE is on top and the richest promotion on merit not because of any financial advantage

 

They are on top because of Vince

[King Pitcos]

Wrestling is entertainment, it's all subjective as to "what is the best", and that isn't always the same thing as "what is most successful".

 

Does Michael bay make the "best" films in the world?

 

Were The Spice Girls the "best" musicians in the Uk in their time?

It's absolutely subjective, but the analogy doesn't hold up at all, because of what wrestling is. It's panto trash that appeals to the child in us all. It doesn't have the equivalent of actual artistic masterpieces that say poignant things about the world. ROH isn't The Magdalene Sisters. And wrestling is one genre (when you take the gorno stuff Richie likes out of the picture, at least), it's not an entire medium. So the Spice Girls thing only works if you're discussing whether they're the "best" vapid pop girl band in their time. The little wankwank promotions aren't aiming for highbrow, intelligent crowds like indie film, they're aiming for AIDS victim gypo goths. And even then, there's far more excitement online for an ROH wrestler winning a title in the proper wrestling than there ever is for an ROH wrestler winning the ROH title, so that says it all about where people who say the little groups are "better" really think the prestige is in wrestling.

 

Anyway, if you're looking for a fitting industry to make such a comparison between WWE and little shows, you're better off going "Vivid and Private make terrible pornos. There's a bird round the corner from here who does weird foot fetish stuff on her mobile phone camera, that's the good stuff." Porn's an industry that's just trying to make an audience of various sizes "pop" as well.

[Richie Freebird]

And even then, there's far more excitement online for an ROH wrestler winning a title in the proper wrestling than there ever is for an ROH wrestler winning the ROH title, so that says it all about where people who say the little groups are "better" really think the prestige is in wrestling.

 

I don

[King Pitcos]

That's fair enough, but my point is that the behaviour that often crops up from such fans really comes across as "Us vs. Them" and it really shouldn't be. I appreciate a lot of that started off with the smarks doing all their fap-coated sneering, but going back in the other direction isn't the answer. As I said before: we're all fans of the sport, so we really shouldn't be lambasting each other so.

It is the answer. As long as you've still Dem Wans like Dirty Eddie and Full Mongoloid Kenny McBride posting "their" opinions, it needs to be counterbalanced. For years, Internet wrestling forums were pretty much completely dominated by the pervs, to the point where their "mainstream wrestling sux, Evil Vince is killing the sport, watch ROH" sort of shite became accepted as reality on them. And it shouldn't go unchecked. For every "lol Cena merch 4 kiddies" there should be an "lol head drops 4 kiddiefiddlers." And, potentially, vice versa.

 

On a standard wrestling forum a few years ago (and probably still loads of them today), casually posting some generic smark crap opinion would be met with agreement all-round and wouldn't be so contentious. So it's still a shock to the system for them (and for you, really, since you mention it a lot) to have people fighting the other corner. The smark mindset has been taken as unquestioned gospel for a long time, and the very notion of opposing it is bound to offend some of 'em. But it must be somewhat appreciated as well, on here at least, judging by the last two popularity contests. And yet, the most popular characters on here are also the most hated.

 

But that's what makes this forum better than others, that divide. It's not just a cavalcade of people parroting the opinions they came across when they first got into wrestling sites and found out what the "experts" told them to like to be a good fan. It's not just people who have grown out of that and like what they like.

There's plenty of people that respectively like WWE, TNA, indie shite, Japanese wrestling, people who've moved onto MMA, people who just moan that it's not like the attitude era, and so on. There's a good balance. And there's a good balance of civil discussion, heated arguments and smugness and insults.

 

"I'm right, you're wrong, this is why" is the backbone of discussion on subjects people are passionate about. And as you say, we're all fans, so we should be reasonably passionate about it. Nothing wrong with that. Academic discourse is fine, but a bit silly for wrestling. People take stuff too seriously. That's why I love Richie. He can tell me the wrestling I like is embarrassing brainwashing shit for children, I can tell him the wrestling he likes is obscure perverse crap for weirdos, and he doesn't even really like half of it, he just pretends to because websites told him he should. But neither of us goes crying over it and I'm sure we'd buy each other a drink if we ever met. Not that we'd ever meet, because he'd never go to a wrestling show I'd go to and vice versa (and even if we did go to the same show, he'd be thrown out before the interval).* I hate that I've used vice versa twice in the same post, but to be fair, this whole thing has just been me repeating the same sort of shite that could've been covered in two lines.

 

Anyway, it's a messageboard, there's going to be insults and arguments regardless of whether someone likes a certain kind of wrestling or not. In 2005, there were probably people calling each other gaylords for making it to the end of a CM Punk vs Samoa Joe match without cumming, or having blood feuds over how many gambols make a five-asterisk match. If the wankdogs died off, it'd just be me making polls like "Who would you rather spend Christmas with if your family all died, Santino or Hornswoggle?" and the pCc wishing death on each other for preferring different Kevin Nash hair colours. It's good how it is now.

 

*I might meet him in prison one day, I suppose. Or if I go on the waltzers.

[Richie Freebird]

And that

[Carbomb]

It is the answer. As long as you've still Dem Wans like Dirty Eddie and Full Mongoloid Kenny McBride posting "their" opinions, it needs to be counterbalanced. For years, Internet wrestling forums were pretty much completely dominated by the pervs, to the point where their "mainstream wrestling sux, Evil Vince is killing the sport, watch ROH" sort of shite became accepted as reality on them. And it shouldn't go unchecked. For every "lol Cena merch 4 kiddies" there should be an "lol head drops 4 kiddiefiddlers." And, potentially, vice versa.

 

On a standard wrestling forum a few years ago (and probably still loads of them today), casually posting some generic smark crap opinion would be met with agreement all-round and wouldn't be so contentious. So it's still a shock to the system for them (and for you, really, since you mention it a lot) to have people fighting the other corner. The smark mindset has been taken as unquestioned gospel for a long time, and the very notion of opposing it is bound to offend some of 'em. But it must be somewhat appreciated as well, on here at least, judging by the last two popularity contests. And yet, the most popular characters on here are also the most hated.

 

But that's what makes this forum better than others, that divide. It's not just a cavalcade of people parroting the opinions they came across when they first got into wrestling sites and found out what the "experts" told them to like to be a good fan. It's not just people who have grown out of that and like what they like.

There's plenty of people that respectively like WWE, TNA, indie shite, Japanese wrestling, people who've moved onto MMA, people who just moan that it's not like the attitude era, and so on. There's a good balance. And there's a good balance of civil discussion, heated arguments and smugness and insults.

 

"I'm right, you're wrong, this is why" is the backbone of discussion on subjects people are passionate about. And as you say, we're all fans, so we should be reasonably passionate about it. Nothing wrong with that. Academic discourse is fine, but a bit silly for wrestling. People take stuff too seriously. That's why I love Richie. He can tell me the wrestling I like is embarrassing brainwashing shit for children, I can tell him the wrestling he likes is obscure perverse crap for weirdos, and he doesn't even really like half of it, he just pretends to because websites told him he should. But neither of us goes crying over it and I'm sure we'd buy each other a drink if we ever met. Not that we'd ever meet, because he'd never go to a wrestling show I'd go to and vice versa (and even if we did go to the same show, he'd be thrown out before the interval).* I hate that I've used vice versa twice in the same post, but to be fair, this whole thing has just been me repeating the same sort of shite that could've been covered in two lines.

 

Anyway, it's a messageboard, there's going to be insults and arguments regardless of whether someone likes a certain kind of wrestling or not. In 2005, there were probably people calling each other gaylords for making it to the end of a CM Punk vs Samoa Joe match without cumming, or having blood feuds over how many gambols make a five-asterisk match. If the wankdogs died off, it'd just be me making polls like "Who would you rather spend Christmas with if your family all died, Santino or Hornswoggle?" and the pCc wishing death on each other for preferring different Kevin Nash hair colours. It's good how it is now.

 

*I might meet him in prison one day, I suppose. Or if I go on the waltzers.

 

Don't really agree. It's one thing to have a different opinion and argue in favour of it, but the constant posturing and superciliousness towards people who have different tastes is something that belongs on other boards, where the smarks really do behave like that. They don't here. You can argue that Eddie and Kenny do, but personally I think that's a chicken-and-egg situation, particularly in your case; I have a high opinion of you in terms of your ability to discuss almost any subject, not just wrestling, but straight from the get-go, you took an adversarial and mocking tone towards anyone who expressed a smark viewpoint, and both Eddie and Kenny seemed to be more reacting to that than anything. I've been here a while, and I'd never seen Kenny behave that way towards anyone except yourself.

 

I don't really want to get involved in the same old argument, though - you know my position, and I know yours: I personally think there's no need for all the insult-slinging and mockery, especially as I don't think people who do that would do it in person (and I don't give a fuck if people on here don't think that's valid - nobody's posted anything yet that sounds anywhere near a plausible excuse for it) and you think it adds to the debate, that it should be all taken in the spirit of a pub chat over a pint, and that anyone who takes it otherwise is too sensitive or thin-skinned. I honestly don't think we're going to convince each other of our sentiments.

 

EDIT: By the way, I'm not referring to you and only you - just a general look at those who do.

[Dirty Eddie]

Don't really agree. It's one thing to have a different opinion and argue in favour of it, but the constant posturing and superciliousness towards people who have different tastes is something that belongs on other boards, where the smarks really do behave like that. They don't here. You can argue that Eddie and Kenny do, but personally I think that's a chicken-and-egg situation, particularly in your case; I have a high opinion of you in terms of your ability to discuss almost any subject, not just wrestling, but straight from the get-go, you took an adversarial and mocking tone towards anyone who expressed a smark viewpoint, and both Eddie and Kenny seemed to be more reacting to that than anything. I've been here a while, and I'd never seen Kenny behave that way towards anyone except yourself.

 

I don't really want to get involved in the same old argument, though - you know my position, and I know yours: I personally think there's no need for all the insult-slinging and mockery, especially as I don't think people who do that would do it in person (and I don't give a fuck if people on here don't think that's valid - nobody's posted anything yet that sounds anywhere near a plausible excuse for it) and you think it adds to the debate, that it should be all taken in the spirit of a pub chat over a pint, and that anyone who takes it otherwise is too sensitive or thin-skinned. I honestly don't think we're going to convince each other of our sentiments.

 

EDIT: By the way, I'm not referring to you and only you - just a general look at those who do.

 

Pity always seems to mention me in the argument, but always adds elements that are complete bollocks. I've stated before that I don't subscribe to Meltzer of any of the other reporters online stuff, so I don't go around arguing other people's opinions. I form my own, just like most people on here. For a "flippy mcWorkrate Indzz fan" I'm pretty crap at it: I don't watch RoH, shimmer, Evolve or any of that. My favourite wrestlers are Hogan, Michaels, Savage and Perfect. Flair/Savage is the best match ever. I just like good wrestling, and I've seen lots of good and lots of bad, having watched for over 20 years.

 

The idea that I'm some stuck-in-2003 smark indy fan is nonsense. I don't give a toss whether other wrestling boards are full of tools, this one isn't. I've never been on another wrestling forum in my life.

 

And Carbomb is completely right, I only ever get into those sorts of arguments when someone (often Mr Pity) makes a silly sweeping statement that i feel the need to try and shoot down. Just the sort of silly statements that he himself loves to rip on when someone makes a point he disagrees with.

[Carbomb]

I've stated before that I don't subscribe to Meltzer of any of the other reporters online stuff, so I don't go around arguing other people's opinions. I form my own, just like most people on here. For a "flippy mcWorkrate Indzz fan" I'm pretty crap at it: I don't watch RoH, shimmer, Evolve or any of that. My favourite wrestlers are Hogan, Michaels, Savage and Perfect. Flair/Savage is the best match ever. I just like good wrestling, and I've seen lots of good and lots of bad, having watched for over 20 years.

 

You're not far off from where I'm at. I don't like RoH/US indies and am very vocal as to why (and that includes Shimmer), I adore Japanese mainstream wrestling (and a bit of Osaka Pro and K-Dojo), I think WWE are the best promotion in the Western world and are the best producers of wrestling in the entire world, who have proved time and time again that they can sell any kind of feud, angle, storyline, match or character if and when they put their creativity and money behind it, I love World Of Sport (wrestling for me started with it, and I still love watching old stuff), I love classic Memphis and 80s Mid-South, I'm overjoyed to be currently discovering all the wCw I missed out on (PWT is pure gold), and my favourite wrestlers of all time are Bret, Kobashi, Piper, Saint, Rocco, Nagasaki, Lawler, Savage and (promo-wise) Duthteh.

[King Pitcos]

I have a high opinion of you

Well that's the main thing.

 

And Carbomb is completely right,

Fair play.

 

I only ever get into those sorts of arguments when someone (often Mr Pity) makes a silly sweeping statement that i feel the need to try and shoot down.

Or, as is more likely, when you make a silly sweeping statement that Your King feels the need to there is no try mock. I do apologise if I ever mistakenly confuse you for, as you put it, "some stuck-in-2003 smark indy [sic] fan," Eddie, but you have to take some responsibility for that on account of you very frequently saying the same things as one.

 

I love World Of Sport (wrestling for me started with it, and I still love watching old stuff),

How old are you? I thought you were a student, but if you started watching wrestling with WoS, you must be north of thirty. My first wrestling video rental was a WoS type thing from the seventies or eighties, about six months after I'd started watching WWF. in 1991 You can imagine my disappointment. Johnny McManus (or whoever) was no Hulk Hogan.

[Dirty Eddie]

You're not far off from where I'm at. I don't like RoH/US indies and am very vocal as to why (and that includes Shimmer), I adore Japanese mainstream wrestling (and a bit of Osaka Pro and K-Dojo), I think WWE are the best promotion in the Western world and are the best producers of wrestling in the entire world, who have proved time and time again that they can sell any kind of feud, angle, storyline, match or character if and when they put their creativity and money behind it, I love World Of Sport (wrestling for me started with it, and I still love watching old stuff), I love classic Memphis and 80s Mid-South, I'm overjoyed to be currently discovering all the wCw I missed out on (PWT is pure gold), and my favourite wrestlers of all time are Bret, Kobashi, Piper, Saint, Rocco, Nagasaki, Lawler, Savage and (promo-wise) Duthteh.

 

The last few shows I have been to in this country were the DragonGate and NOAH shows. I still love wrestling, and occasionally there will be a run here and there in either WWE or TNA that will really excite me again, but when you have watched for so long, and you know things can be better, it's easy to get frustrated when they coast.

 

I've watched Memphis, WCCW, WCW, NWA, RoH, ECW, WWF/E, AJPW, NJPW, Michinoku and probably a dozen more. I think i have a pretty good grasp of what good wrestling and booking looks like and what the shitty stuff looks like. Dave Meltzer had never influenced my opinions.

 

I'm going through all the WCW PPVs now, as well as watching the WEC from the start. Good times.