The UKFF Retro Gaming Thread

[FLips]

30 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

I’ve started playing Chrono Trigger on the DS, and for some reason I’d completely forgotten that it was a silent protagonist. That’s one of my biggest pet hates in gaming, I think. I’m enjoying the game in spite of that, but it’s a design choice I’d love to see disappear altogether from gaming. How much grinding is needed in CT, @FLips?

Firstly, completely disagree with your thoughts on silent protagonists. I think as a Zelda fan I always will!

But on to CT. There's not much grinding needed at all but I would suggest it at certain points. The day to day enemies in the game are fairly easy, most of them are either weak to physical or magic, or NPCs will give you clues on certain enemies when you talk to them. The boss fights are harder though and you'd do well grinding a little before you feel one coming up, especially if you're only a few battles away from learning new techs and potential dual/triples.
It's nowhere near as bad any other RPGs though, and it has XP share built in at I believe 75% (only for XP and not TP) so those not in your party gain XP too.

I spent my workday yesterday grinding in one particular spot because the enemies give 1000xp and 100tp and by that point your party is full aside from one optional character, and you can't go back once it's done. (enemy spoilers but no story spoilers ahead)

Spoiler

It's on Mt.Woe, there's an enemy called Rubble that's this game's golden slime or whatever equivalent in other games. It's got about 500hp, doesn't attack and flees after so many turns. There's about 6 or 7 of them on Mt. Woe but only one of them respawns when you leave the screen (the one near the two chests on the second screen). Equip beserker gear to your best attackers and hope they hit a couple of shots. I was doing it mostly for tech points but the XP boosted my party from level 30 to 40 as well.

Gear is your best friend in this game. It's not until a good chunk of hours in you'll start getting gear with elemental stats like Fire resistance or magic+ or whatever but my advice is even if you take a little hit on general defence it's sometimes better to use the equipment in certain areas. (equipment advice in spoilers in case you want to make the decision yourself blind).

Spoiler

There's a point too where you get an outright choice between a sword and a helmet (not sure what they're called in the DS but on SNES they're Safe Helm and Swallow. Go with the helmet because it's useful for the rest of the game whereas the sword is almost immediately replaced in the next town.

 

[FLips]

Chrono Trigger

I've finished the game (twice) but will avoid spoilers as I know Rooster is playing it. Also anyone else who was thinking about playing it, I don't want to spoil it as it really needs to be encountered blind.

I can confidently say now, after spending 35 hours on it and not only doing every side quest and getting every legendary weapon, but going back in on New Game+ and getting the top secret ending that it is the greatest RPG ever made and it's comfortably in the conversation for the best SNES game.

Everything about the game is a flawless masterpeice. Incredible soundtrack, beautiful graphics and accessible pick up and play gameplay in an RPG which is fairly unheard of. You look at an Earthbound, Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy from this era and they feel so rigid and boring in comparison.
Multiple endings, character combos and secrets that don't require hours of grinding and a low ceiling for completion means just about anyone can pick the game up and finish it.

I'm actually finding it hard to talk about the game because there are no flaws with it and I don't want to dive too much into anything specific in the hopes other people pick it up. 10/10

---

From there I've went onto the "sequel" Chrono Cross on PS and that's been a little more a mixed bag. I use "sequel" like that because so far it's had nothing to do with the original other than similar musical themes.

Graphically stunning and the music is still just as gorgeous but the gameplay is convoluted and all over the place. I'll quickly run down the battle system to give you an idea, but in reality I needed to watch no less than 3 Youtube tutorials to understand what's actually happening.
So let's say you just go into a battle. You'll notice right off the bat that your attack is split into 1, 2 and 3 and each has a % chance of hitting as presented on the screen like:
1 - 87%
2 - 79%
3 - 72%

1 is your weak attack and has a better chance of hitting but to do less damage. 2 is your medium, and 3 is your strong. You have 7 stamina so using a weak attack reduces it to 6, then say you use a medium after it goes to 4, then a strong to 1, so you can mathematically only hit a weak attack to finish your attack.
With each successful hit, the % chance of hitting your next one increases. So on paper you're encouraged to use a risk/reward style combo system to hit weak to increase the chance of a strong for big damage which after you figure it out makes sense. But what about magic?

Well there is no magic in it's common form. There's elements.

Elements are what the game calls magic AND consumable items and each time you hit an enemy with an attack it fills your magic bar from levels 1 to 3. Each character has a mixture of items and magic equipped to each level of elements. So you may for example put Fireball and Tablet (potion) into your level one, then Cure and Fireball into level two, and a Magma Bomb into Level 3. This means it's quicker and easier to access your weak spells and a healing item but needs more work to build up to a bigger healing spell or stronger magic attack. Are you following still?

Well each individual spell also has a level, so for example Fireball might be level 2, so if you equip it to your level 2 element it will be Fireball. If you equip it to your level 1 element it will be Fireball-1 so a stronger spell nerfed down to be weaker so you can use it earlier. If you equip it to level 3 element it will be Fireball+1 so a weaker spell given a bit of a boost in trade for it being used later in the fight.
You cannot use an Element unless you have at least Level 1 on your magic meter, at which point any use of an item regardless of Level 1, 2, or 3 uses 7 Stamina. This means you're encouraged to use them at the ends of combos to maximise damage. You can use them even if you don't have 7 stamina and it will put you into negative stamina meaning that character cannot attack next turn.
To get stamina back, your characters have to Attack or Defend with other characters. So say you have a two person party, and person 1 uses Fireball and goes to -7 stamina. Person 2 attacks using a level 3 attack, it gives person 1 3 stamina back. If person 2 defends it fully restores stamina for both.
Elements can only be used once per spell in each battle, so if you use Level 1 Fireball that's done and dusted. So it encourages you to stockpile spells onto every character of every affinity.
If you have stamina left and any cure elements you can use your remaining stamina post-fight to heal the party. Got this?

So you know how to use elements and how to attack and defend, and how stamina works. But now each character and enemy has an affinity and it has field mechanics! What!?

Each character in the game has either Black, White, Blue, Red, Yellow or Green affinity. This means they use that colour of element better but are also weak to their opposite colour. So Black spells are strong against White, Red against Blue, Green against Yellow and vice versa for each. Anyone can still use any colour spell, so Serge for example your starting character is White affinity so if he uses White Spells they get a boost and if they're used against Black affinity enemies they're even stronger. A Red character like Kid can still use a White spell against a Black enemy but they'll only get the boost for the Black/White and not for their Red affinity.

There's also Field Mechanics so at the start of each battle there will be a 3 colour combo in the top left called Field Mechanics. This boosts/nerfs not only spells but characters too. So say your Field is Red/White/Blue. Serge uses a White spell and it gets a little boost from him being a white affinity but also the white spell gets a boost too. The attack changes the Field by pushing from right to left so now the Field is White/Blue/White and White spells get even stronger, also making Black spells weaker by comparison. The aim, ideally, is to repeatedly use Elements to make that Field change colours to your advantage.

So there you have it, in a nutshell. Weak/Medium/Heavy attacks, Elements, Stamina, Field Mechanics, Affinities, etc. Everything you need to win in battle and earn that sweet XP to level up.

BUT WAIT!

You don't earn XP or level up in Chrono Cross!

Instead there's a bonkers system (another Youtube tutorial I had to watch) in which there are Star fights. I won't go into this too much because I'm beginning to confuse myself again but basically the game has boss encounters called Star Fights (or something similar) which are the fights that give you big stat boosts and decent spoils. Every "regular" encounter between each Star Fight gives you minor boosts (we're talking +1HP here and there) but will cap out at random intervals between Star Fights and stop rewarding you completely. There's a whole complicated mechanic behind it I still don't fully get but for simplicity it's like this.

Star Fight 1 gives you big boosts to stats, then you can get minor stat rewards from 5 fights after that and they'll stop and then you can only get more rewards when you get to Star Fight 2. Now you can get rewards from say 3 fights until Star Fight 3, then maybe 10 fights until Star Fight 4. It's basically random and changes based on what random rewards you got from previous fights but the core concept of it is to essentially only let you be a certain strength at each point of the game so you don't end up too weak or too strong.

If your head is farting then pray for me because I'm the one playing it. I've heard rumblings of trapping magic and summons too and I already can't be bothered.

I'm really giving Chrono Cross a go and haven't let it put me off, but it's trying it's hardest. It has swiftly taken the top spot of most inaccessible RPG mechanics off Final Fantasy VIII. That being said, one of my guys has a Level 3 element where he "teleports his wand into an opponent's innards" which is as brutal as it sounds. Wand is generous too as it's more of a staff. Grim.

 

Edited August 31 by FLips

[RedTwoster]

2 hours ago, FLips said:

I've finished the game (twice) but will avoid spoilers as I know Rooster is playing it. Also anyone else who was thinking about playing it, I don't want to spoil it as it really needs to be encountered blind.

I can confidently say now, after spending 35 hours on it and not only doing every side quest and getting every legendary weapon, but going back in on New Game+ and getting the top secret ending that it is the greatest RPG ever made and it's comfortably in the conversation for the best SNES game.

As soon as I saw you posted I whizzed into the thread, and thank you so much for steering clear of spoilers. 

So...I very nearly gave up on the game. If the forum had been live, you'd have seen me get to that point and say that I thought it was boring. When I arrived in the future, I just wasn't getting it. Part of the reason was, admittedly, that it reminded me of the very overrated Sea of Stars; but further to that, the locations felt very lifeless and the world felt a bit empty. There's also very little hand-holding - with very little direction given as to where you should go. 

Then something just clicked, and I started loving it. I'm in the dark ages at the moment, just after going back to 1000AD in the monster village. I've come to appreciate the lack of direction - it encourages you to actually speak to people, and when you pick up that nugget of information as to where you should go, it feels like you've made a conscious choice to go there based on what you've heard, as opposed to being led there. It feels like you're actually adventuring, even though the game by its very nature is a bit linear - you rarely have a choice as to where you're supposed to go - but it really feels like you're making your own adventure, even though you know that's not the case. 

I'm also enjoying the story - I can't imagine I'm the only person who would feel a bit bored of the game during the future, but I would urge you to stick with it if this happens to you. 

As far as it being the greatest RPG ever, I won't comment on that until I've completed it - but what I will say is that it's pretty incredible that Square release this, Final Fantasy VI, Secret of Mana and Live-a-Live within months of one another...

...and I'll also say that Final Fantasy VI and Live-a-Live will take some beating for me, as far as best SNES game goes. Best RPG is a harder conversation to have - Final Fantasy VII, Omori, Live-a-Live, Undertale, Dragon Quest V...there are a lot of strong contenders. 

[FLips]

23 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

As soon as I saw you posted I whizzed into the thread, and thank you so much for steering clear of spoilers. 

So...I very nearly gave up on the game. If the forum had been live, you'd have seen me get to that point and say that I thought it was boring. When I arrived in the future, I just wasn't getting it. Part of the reason was, admittedly, that it reminded me of the very overrated Sea of Stars; but further to that, the locations felt very lifeless and the world felt a bit empty. There's also very little hand-holding - with very little direction given as to where you should go. 

Then something just clicked, and I started loving it. I'm in the dark ages at the moment, just after going back to 1000AD in the monster village. I've come to appreciate the lack of direction - it encourages you to actually speak to people, and when you pick up that nugget of information as to where you should go, it feels like you've made a conscious choice to go there based on what you've heard, as opposed to being led there. It feels like you're actually adventuring, even though the game by its very nature is a bit linear - you rarely have a choice as to where you're supposed to go - but it really feels like you're making your own adventure, even though you know that's not the case. 

I'm also enjoying the story - I can't imagine I'm the only person who would feel a bit bored of the game during the future, but I would urge you to stick with it if this happens to you. 

As far as it being the greatest RPG ever, I won't comment on that until I've completed it - but what I will say is that it's pretty incredible that Square release this, Final Fantasy VI, Secret of Mana and Live-a-Live within months of one another...

...and I'll also say that Final Fantasy VI and Live-a-Live will take some beating for me, as far as best SNES game goes. Best RPG is a harder conversation to have - Final Fantasy VII, Omori, Live-a-Live, Undertale, Dragon Quest V...there are a lot of strong contenders. 

The future is definitely the bleakest part of the game but I suppose that's the point given what happens. It's also the place you go least throughout the game other than for a character side mission later which I think actually turned what I thought was the least interesting character into one of the most. There's a reason it reminded you of Sea of Stars though (which incidentally I also didn't like much) because the game was heavily inspired to the point they got the original composer from Chrono Trigger in to do music tracks for it.
You're right about the lack of hand holding and my advice would have been to talk to everyone but you already figured that out!

I can't wait til you've finished it to discuss the bigger spoilers!

I'm definitely going to look into Live-a-Live and the Dragon Quests on SNES at some point. I really liked DQ9 on the DS and was enjoying 10 but the voice acting made me stop playing, but apparently they updated it so you can do the original Japanese voices now so I keep meaning to go back to it.

Edited August 31 by FLips

[RedTwoster]

37 minutes ago, FLips said:

There's a reason it reminded you of Sea of Stars though (which incidentally I also didn't like much) because the game was heavily inspired to the point they got the original composer from Chrono Trigger in to do music tracks for it.

Yeah, I was aware of the inspiration and it really shows - I was taken aback at how much it tainted the game for me initially. I had to force myself to push on, but I had the same feeling of apathy as I did while playing SOS for quite some time.

39 minutes ago, FLips said:

I'm definitely going to look into Live-a-Live and the Dragon Quests on SNES at some point

My advice would be don’t…or don’t make these the only way you experience these games. The best version of DQV is the DS version - it looks better, plays better, sounds better, has extra content and quality of life improvements that elevate an already brilliant game. The same is true for Live-a-Live. Play the re-release. The 2D-HD style makes it look so much better than the SNES version, and the soundtrack is better too - you can switch to the original, but I liked the remastered version much more, which I can’t say is usually the case with most remakes for me. The fan translation for Live-a-Live is good, but I’d be very surprised if this was the preferred version for the majority of people who have played it, unless there’s an in-built nostalgia. 

This obviously isn’t retro, but have you played Omori? Very few games have genuinely affected me and stayed with me for months after playing them - but I still think about this one even now. It’s a spectacular game, but definitely one that has to come with a trigger warning. Erm, well, several trigger warnings. 

[FLips]

46 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

Yeah, I was aware of the inspiration and it really shows - I was taken aback at how much it tainted the game for me initially. I had to force myself to push on, but I had the same feeling of apathy as I did while playing SOS for quite some time.

My advice would be don’t…or don’t make these the only way you experience these games. The best version of DQV is the DS version - it looks better, plays better, sounds better, has extra content and quality of life improvements that elevate an already brilliant game. The same is true for Live-a-Live. Play the re-release. The 2D-HD style makes it look so much better than the SNES version, and the soundtrack is better too - you can switch to the original, but I liked the remastered version much more, which I can’t say is usually the case with most remakes for me. The fan translation for Live-a-Live is good, but I’d be very surprised if this was the preferred version for the majority of people who have played it, unless there’s an in-built nostalgia. 

This obviously isn’t retro, but have you played Omori? Very few games have genuinely affected me and stayed with me for months after playing them - but I still think about this one even now. It’s a spectacular game, but definitely one that has to come with a trigger warning. Erm, well, several trigger warnings. 

You know me, I'm a bit of a purist. I do have a hacked 3DS though so getting DQ on that might be a shout. I think the Switch has a trial of Live-a-Live so I'll give that a go thanks!

The Nintendo Direct the other day showed a bit of one of the DQs and it looked brilliant, but I'm not huge on the HD-2D style, I think it's massively overused and loses a lot of the charm of pure sprite work.

I did play some of Omori and while I liked some of the more unique aspects of the battle system, I could never shake the feeling it was made to appeal to to an audience that wasn't me and the gameplay itself I found a little dull.

[RedTwoster]

5 minutes ago, FLips said:

You know me, I'm a bit of a purist. I do have a hacked 3DS though so getting DQ on that might be a shout. I think the Switch has a trial of Live-a-Live so I'll give that a go thanks!

This did cross my mind while I was writing my post! Let me know what you think of both.

6 minutes ago, FLips said:

The Nintendo Direct the other day showed a bit of one of the DQs and it looked brilliant, but I'm not huge on the HD-2D style, I think it's massively overused and loses a lot of the charm of pure sprite work.

You know, I’m not a huge fan of it either. But in Live-a-Live it just worked for me. The game just looked beautiful. 

[BigJag]

Whilst the UKFF was down. I came across this fun little 🧵 of retro racers. The thread creator centered his comments on the looks and graphical effects used in the games. The thread is peppered with games I wasn't aware of and others that are absolute classics.

[hallicks]

8 hours ago, BigJag said:

Whilst the UKFF was down. I came across this fun little 🧵 of retro racers. The thread creator centered his comments on the looks and graphical effects used in the games. The thread is peppered with games I wasn't aware of and others that are absolute classics.

Dang, no Network Q RAC Rally Championship? 

[hallicks]

Sorry for the double post, but I recently finished playing Portal for the first time (on the switch), which I think counts as retro as it was released in 2007. Such a ridiculously fun game. I only looked up a walkthrough on one level and instantly regretted it as it wasn’t even that hard, just my inbuilt millennial need for instant gratification became too strong in that moment. 

[RedTwoster]

1 hour ago, hallicks said:

Sorry for the double post, but I recently finished playing Portal for the first time (on the switch), which I think counts as retro as it was released in 2007. Such a ridiculously fun game. I only looked up a walkthrough on one level and instantly regretted it as it wasn’t even that hard, just my inbuilt millennial need for instant gratification became too strong in that moment. 

I'm really jealous that you've got to experience that for the first time - it's just wonderful, and even the end credits are fantastic thanks to the song - how often can you say that about a game?

Portal 2 is just as good, and I know a lot of people who think it's even better than the first. 

[Merzbow]

I never finished Portal 2, Wheatley may be my most disliked character in games and I don't think I found a single line of his funny.

[RedTwoster]

17 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

I never finished Portal 2, Wheatley may be my most disliked character in games and I don't think I found a single line of his funny.

I didn't mind him, but it's basically Stephen Merchant playing himself. If you find him irritating, you probably won't like the character. I enjoyed the story in 2, but I'd certainly categorise myself as someone who enjoys the original more - probably in part because it was so different and unlike anything I'd ever played before. The second probably does refine on and build on the gameplay, but your first experience of a certain gameplay 'type' is always going to have a lasting effect. 

[Jazzy G]

Is Secret/Story of Mana the one that's more action RPG than turn based? I might be able to handle that. 

[FLips]

9 minutes ago, Jazzy G said:

Is Secret/Story of Mana the one that's more action RPG than turn based? I might be able to handle that. 

Yeah that’s the one with hack and slash Zelda style gameplay if I remember rightly. Back in the day I had the proper cart but sadly sold it. I’ll be looking into picking it up again soon but you can get the remakes on modern consoles I think.