Other MMA Shows

[wandshogun09]

Shit. I don't know much about TNA goings on these days but that's mental. Aren't they in the shit financially at the moment and the roster is thinner than ever? And they've had no real return on their investment with Rampage or Mo have they. Are they still paying Tito as well or was that a one-off?

 

in fairness the two actually seem to be downplaying the feud in the buildup, its the press/bellator that are pushing it, and you cant really blame em, they are trying to sell tickets.

 

Oh I'm not blaming them, they've got to promote and at least they've got something to promote with Rampage vs Mo. I'd rather this than what Rampage vs Tito would've been. I wouldn't say Rampage and Mo are downplaying it though. The shoving at the weigh in, there was that press conference where they were bickering non-stop and had to be separated, the pull-apart after Rampage vs M'Pumbu. Not criticizing, they should play it up. Anything they can do to get people to buy the PPV they should do it. I'm just not sure how much I believe this feud. They're a hard pair to read at times. Even years ago when there'd be those videos online of them arguing in shopping centers and in the back of a van with Bobby Lashley and stuff, that was back when Rampage was in the UFC and Mo was in Strikeforce. There was plenty of needling back then so I'm not saying it's completely fake. That video they did for MMAElite, they were very pally. It did seem like they'd genuinely buried the hatchet for a while there. But no doubt once they knew they were going to fight, the competitive juices would start flowing again. Watching them arguing it seems genuine at times, other times it seems like really bad pro wrestling. I can't make up my mind. I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as they're making out though. I think this will probably be one of those fights where after the fight they're shaking hands and hugging and stuff.

 

On that subject, Rebney said the promotiom has sold close to 6,000 tickets, thats not bad going is it.

 

Yeah, hopefully they'll have a full house tonight.

[DJM]

Well Tito Ortiz and Will Brooks spoilt things just a little for Bellator's plans last night.

 

Rampage winning might have messed their plans up as well, as I read somewhere that he trains with Newton.

 

Michael Page was his usual self, but I can see someone knocking him out if he is not too careful and continues to fight the (entertaining) way he does.

 

 

Mamed Khalidov won again as well as at KSW 27. Have UFC shown any interest in him? He does have a very good record and is a finisher (with only one win from 29 be decision).

[GlennCullen]

Well Tito Ortiz and Will Brooks spoilt things just a little for Bellator's plans last night.

 

Rampage winning might have messed their plans up as well, as I read somewhere that he trains with Newton.

 

Michael Page was his usual self, but I can see someone knocking him out if he is not too careful and continues to fight the (entertaining) way he does.

 

 

Mamed Khalidov won again as well as at KSW 27. Have UFC shown any interest in him? He does have a very good record and is a finisher (with only one win from 29 be decision).

 

They've offered before but he turned them down as he makes more with

KSW. You'd think they'd be able to tempt him over, but he is a hero in Poland.

[DJM]

Mamed Khalidov won again as well as at KSW 27. Have UFC shown any interest in him? He does have a very good record and is a finisher (with only one win from 29 be decision).

They've offered before but he turned them down as he makes more with

KSW. You'd think they'd be able to tempt him over, but he is a hero in Poland.

It is a pity, I would like to see how he would do against some of the fighters in the UFC or even WSOF.

Edited May 18, 2014 by DJM

[jimufctna24]

Great show overall.

 

A great mix of prospects and established stars. I actually disagreed with the verdicts for the last 2 fights. I had it 48-47 Chandler, and 29-28 Mo. Both were hardly robberies though. Ortiz winning was a nice surprise, Shlemenko looked like a deer in the headlights once Tito scored the takedown. Size made all the difference.

 

Michael Page is my favorite UK prospect. I like his fighting style and his swagger. I fear he will be shown up by a top level boxer, or a decent wrestler. But for now, he is one of the more exciting prospects in the sport. Viva's broadcast lasted almost 4 hours with the adverts. But I cannot complain, as it was for free. I hope Bellator do more big shows like this, I doubt I will become a regular viewer but shows like this with big names manage to draw me in.

 

I fear the number for this will be low. The UFC has overwhelmed the PPV market. If I would have had the choice I would have bought this over the next UFC PPV (Barao vs Dillashaw), but I suspect the UFC brand name will carry that card above what Bellator does (which is a shame)

 

EDIT: What is going on behind the curtain is just as interesting. Spike and Viacom want Scott Coker to replace Bjorn according to Jordan Breen. Also, a rumor was floating around that one big name threw one of the main fights last night.

Edited May 19, 2014 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

I actually disagreed with the verdicts for the last 2 fights. I had it 48-47 Chandler, and 29-28 Mo. Both were hardly robberies though.

 

Same here, sort of. Although I had Chandler vs Brooks a draw because I had Brooks 10-8ing the third. It wasn't a robbery by any stretch but it was a mildly bad decision IMO. To me the first four rounds were clear cut and easy to decipher who won the rounds. Chandler took rounds 1 and 2, Brooks rounds 3 and 4, with a possible 10-8 in the 3rd. The fifth should've been the tie breaker on most peoples' cards and I don't see how anyone could have scored that round for Brooks considering Chandler almost knocked him out and was synching in an arm triangle at the end. I couldn't score Chandler losing that fight on first watch. I could see 48-47 for Chandler, or at best for Brooks, a draw. Which is how I had it. There's been worse decisions but I did feel the scoring was off.

 

Rampage vs Mo, I had Mo 29-28 as well. With Rampage only taking round two. He definitely didn't win round one and I don't see how he did enough to win round three. Mo wasn't doing a ton of damage but neither was Rampage really. Rampage did his damage in round two. He was just controlled too much for too much of round three for me to score him the round for the odd brief flurry where not much landed.

 

I must admit I was a bit baffled when the decision was announced. And also a bit confused when Jimmy Smith was acting like Rampage won before the scores were read, as if it was obvious or not at all controversial.

 

Also, a rumor was floating around that one big name threw one of the main fights last night.

 

The tinfoil hat talk I read was that Shlemenko took a dive for Tito. I'm not buying it though. If they were going to fix that fight surely it'd make more sense to have Shlemenko win, seeing as how he's their 185lb champ and he's the one with the future to build for. Tito is just diminishing returns. Feel-good moment if you're a Tito fan, but it wouldn't make much sense to fix that one to me.

 

I guess, if they book Rampage vs Tito now for the next PPV, the conspiracy theory will be 'hey they had Shlemenko dive for Tito, and they gifted Rampage a dodgy decision, to set up their next PPV.' I don't buy into it though. And surely now Rampage vs Mo 2 is the way to go.

 

It was a very good show. Rampage vs Mo wasn't great, had its moments but it reminded me a lot of Rampage vs Rashad Evans. Big grudge going in, loads of shit talked both ways, ends up a bit lacklustre on the night. Like Rashad, Mo fought the way you'd expect/the way he should, but it just didn't quite live up to the hype as a fight.

 

Chandler vs Brooks was excellent though. That's where I got my fix of in cage stuff. Really good technical fight. I honestly thought this fight was coming too early for Brooks, I didn't think he was quite there yet to hang with Chandler. Regardless of how you scored it, Brooks definitely showed he can hang with Chandler. Another case of a late replacement rising to the challenge. Worth noting that Chandler was training for Alvarez almost his whole camp, but on the flipside, Brooks wasn't even in full training camp at all, so it levels out.

 

This might've killed the Alvarez vs Chandler trilogy though. It depends what Alvarez wants to do next. Rebney is saying that it's in Alvarez's contract that he can opt for the Chandler fight if he chooses. Or obviously the Brooks unification match. Personally, I'd rather see the Chandler rubber match. But then where does that leave Brooks? It's a weird situation.

Edited May 19, 2014 by wandshogun09

[Magnum Milano]

Well from watching the PPV on Viva last night it is clear that Frank Shamrock is an even worse interviewer than he is commentator. Why on earth do companies persevere with this guy and give him job after job?

[Egg Shen]

fuck there was some money to be made on this, i looked up a

[wandshogun09]

Well from watching the PPV on Viva last night it is clear that Frank Shamrock is an even worse interviewer than he is commentator. Why on earth do companies persevere with this guy and give him job after job?

 

Haha, I knew there was someone else on here with sense. I brought up how shite a commentator Frank was before and everyone else seemed to like him and I got called grumpy or miserable or something. Didn't I, Jim?

 

Frank Shamrock was an awesome fighter in his day, but he is shit as an announcer of any kind. He was terrible last night. I don't know why they didn't just use Luke Thomas. He was in the building. He'd been great all week with his Helwani-style interviews. And he's done the roving backstage interviewer bit before for GLORY a few times. He'd have been much better than watching Frank Shamrock awkwardly fumble around not knowing how to wrap the interview up.

 

I forgot to mention Michael Page. He looked tremendous didn't he? He will probably have to reign that showboating stuff in as he steps up though. If he tries that shit around Douglas Lima he'll probably get ironed out real quick. I like him though. Seemed a good guy in his interviews and stuff as well. He's saying he wants to take his time but Rebney was mentioning tournaments and potential fight with Lima down the line already. It'll be interesting to see who he gets paired with next. I hope they don't rush him.

[jimufctna24]

I should stress that according to Breen, the rumor started to spread about the fixed fight before the PPV broadcast. People then naturally assumed it was the Tito fight. I love Frank Shamrock, but he did add nothing as a interviewer, I agree.

 

I hope they do bring Coker in, he did a sterling job with Strikeforce, and is perhaps the only major MMA promoter (outside Dana), who I would not call a cowboy. On second thoughts, I agree with Wand. I had it 47-47 between Brooks and Chandler.

 

Breen had a point on Sherdog when he said this was a "big event", at least stuff happened (good/bad), that you could talk about afterwards. I have to say as a overall package, I enjoyed Bellator 120 more than 90% of UFC shows.

[wandshogun09]

I hope they do bring Coker in, he did a sterling job with Strikeforce, and is perhaps the only major MMA promoter (outside Dana), who I would not call a cowboy.

 

Yeah Coker was promoting for fucking ages before we all knew who he was. I'm sure I remember him saying something like he'd been promoting kickboxing twenty years ago or something which is how he met Cung Le.

 

Coker's a rare case of a fight promoter who's pretty much universally liked. You look at the fighters that passed through Strikeforce - the likes of Diaz, Frank Shamrock, Mayhem, Barnett, Daley, Overeem, Fedor, Rousey etc etc - a big variety of characters who you could see a promoter might find hard to handle at times. But nobody has a bad word to say about Coker.

 

Shannon Knapp is similar, although she hasn't been around as long. You notice as well, even Dana has nothing bad to say about Coker or Knapp. If Bellator do bring Coker on board though, I wonder if Dana will change his tune. Probably.

 

What's Coker been doing since Strikeforce finished? I could swear at the time Dana said they had a role for him, but he seemed to just vanish.

 

Breen had a point on Sherdog when he said this was a "big event", at least stuff happened (good/bad), that you could talk about afterwards. I have to say as a overall package, I enjoyed Bellator 120 more than 90% of UFC shows.

 

It was a very good show (would've been even better if it finished with the original Alvarez vs Chandler fight), but I wouldn't go that far. The UFC are doing more thin cards these days but I think 90% is way generous. If this Bellator PPV was a UFC card I don't think people would be quite that generous. On paper it's not much different to 173, which isn't one of the UFC's strongest efforts.

 

When you compare the top three fights;

 

Bellator had...

Rampage vs Mo

Chandler vs Brooks

Tito vs Shlemenko

 

UFC has...

Barao vs Dillashaw

Cormier vs Hendo

Lawler vs Ellenberger

 

Now the UFC card is yet to happen, but on paper if you'd not seen either show, does Bellator look clearly better like some are saying? I don't think it does really. Barao vs Dillashaw is more of a mismatch than Rampage vs Mo and there's not much to sink your teeth into promotion-wise. But it's still a UFC title fight with one of the best fighters in the sport. And Lawler vs Ellenberger is the fight I've been most excited about of the six there.

 

I don't think there's much difference in the cards quality wise. But I'd lean towards UFC 173 myself. Still, that's no knock on Bellator. As a first stab at a big show, to compare it to a decent UFC PPV isn't bad going at all, is it?

 

But when you think of how many great UFC shows there are a year, 90% is a bit much I reckon. It's all opinion but for me - It obviously can't touch UFC 168, it wasn't as good as 171, I probably enjoyed 172 more. 175 smokes it on paper. Even some of the Fight Nights are comparable. The Australia show in December which had both Hunt vs Bigfoot and Shogun vs Te Huna, was better IMO. The Werdum vs Browne FOX show was better as well top to bottom for me with Werdum vs Browne, Cerrone vs Barboza, Alves vs Baczynski etc all delivering.

 

Don't get me wrong it was a fun show. It was more loaded than your average Brazil UFC Fight Night which are usually one match shows really. But this was Bellator's almost best possible card. The next PPV could be something like Alvarez vs Chandler, Rampage vs Tito or Mo again, I don't know maybe Brooks vs Pitbull? That'd be fun. But that's the absolute best they've got. Compare that to the UFC's midweek Fight Nights in Alabama or whatever and of course Bellator will be better. But comparing like for like, Bellator's first PPV vs any UFC PPV, is a different thing. And for me it definitely wasn't better than 90% of UFC PPVs. Although I know you just said 'UFC shows' and it's your opinion so fair enough.

 

Saying that, I did enjoy it more than UFC 169 and 170. And 174 doesn't look that great really. It was a strong first effort for Bellator. But I just don't think they have the roster depth to keep doing these stacked shows. Not with their current way of doing things with all the tournaments as well. They're probably alright for another PPV, something like the one I proposed above. And maybe one more after that. But what then? Alvarez might be gone after his next fight, Helwani seemed to think so recently on the MMA Beat. And guys like Rampage and Tito, who knows how much longer they'll even be around.

 

This is where they could've really done with Gilbert Melendez. If they'd got him a few months ago when those negotiations went down, he's the type of fighter they need. And even Hendo when his contract was up after the Belfort fight last year. If Bellator had Melendez and Hendo now, that'd give them a bunch of potential PPV fights to play with. Hendo vs Rampage, Tito or Mo. Melendez vs Alvarez, Chandler, Brooks, Pitbull. You could build some pretty solid PPVs around that lot.

 

I think now might be a good time to sod off the tournament gimmick. Still do a couple a year maybe, but this constant stream of tournaments all year kind of hamstrings them from matchmaking properly. Especially with them trying to make a go on PPV now. You have to make fights people will pay for. Tournaments can get in the way of that with their unpredictability and craziness. If they sacked off the tournaments and maybe even scaled back a few shows a year, they would probably find it much easier to stack up the cards they want to make special. I don't know, I'm just some knob on a forum. But it's hard to see how far this PPV lark can go for them unless they suddenly were able to poach a load of UFC fighters and new talent, and/or they make some adjustments. They can't just keep having Rampage, Mo and Tito fight each other forever. Or Chandler, Alvarez and Brooks. And Alvarez mightn't be an option soon anyway. There's not much in the way of PPV headline worthy fights outside that lot right now.

[jimufctna24]

The Bellator show just offered a bit of everything. You had

 

- A promising prospect showcased (Michael Page)

 

- A freak show fight (Ortiz vs Shlemenko)

 

- A credible title fight for the purists, that turned into a match of the year candidate (Brooks vs Chandler)

 

- A decent Heavyweight brawl

 

- A grudge fight that served as a worthy Main Event (Mo vs Rampage)

 

All 5 fights delivered something of interest.

 

Plus, it was a nice change of pace. Yes the production was not perfect, but it made a nice change from the sterile UFC production. There was no Face The Pain or Rogan pushing his agenda. Maybe it is because I am not a regular Bellator viewer, but everything felt fresh. I liked how they had a commentator score the fight as it was ongoing. Just little things like that were welcome.

 

Bellator did showcase two fighters in Ortiz and Rampage who are way over the hill. But a change in scenery can make all the difference. Rampage and Ortiz seemed like welcome nostalgia acts last night. The build up for Ortiz vs Shlemenko was produced masterfully, they had me gripped once the fight started.

 

UFC rarely do that these days, as it has all become overly familiar. It is the same old formula over and over again. Since they cut Primetime, it is hard to name one fighter the UFC has been able to make seem more interesting of their own back. Remember how they hyped Nick Diaz for his fight against Condit? McGregor does not count, as he promoted himself of his own back. Rousey was ready made as Strikeforce enhanced her appeal (and it was not exactly hard to market her).

 

The UFC card this weekend may deliver just as well inside the cage, but it does not offer as much star power. Ortiz and Rampage may be jokes in some circles, but they are bigger names than anyone on the UFC Main Card. UFC 175 looks top draw, I will concede there.

[Egg Shen]

last i heard of Coker he was out of the fight game completely and was travelling the world with his wife. There was an interview up somewhere not long ago.

[jimufctna24]

last i heard of Coker he was out of the fight game completely and was travelling the world with his wife. There was an interview up somewhere not long ago.

I have heard Coker has been in the picture for a while with Bellator.

 

Spike/Viacom are meant to have a different vision on where they want Bellator to go than Rebney (who is meant to be hard to work with). Coker is the man that Viacom/Spike have wanted for a while (I am talking 6 months or so)

 

Rebney's behavior over the past week, which including lying to the press about Alverez being out, and pretending not to be aware of what gate he drew on Saturday has not done him any favors.

[wandshogun09]

Plus, it was a nice change of pace. Yes the production was not perfect, but it made a nice change from the sterile UFC production. There was no Face The Pain or Rogan pushing his agenda. Maybe it is because I am not a regular Bellator viewer, but everything felt fresh. I liked how they had a commentator score the fight as it was ongoing. Just little things like that were welcome.

 

Oh I've got no complaints whatsoever about the production of Bellator's shows. I really like that. It's one thing they've got almost spot on for me. The shows look good, I'm a big fan of their commentary team as well. It's all very professional. I like Jimmy Smith keeping score as well. I've always liked that stuff. Harold Lederman has done it on HBO boxing forever. Teddy Atlas did it on Friday Night Fights. I even liked when the UFC would have Eddie Bravo's unofficial scorecard bit during fights. It's a nice little addition and for newer viewers, I imagine it's a good way to learn about how rounds are scored and the logic behind what fighters were trying to do in the round, especially the grappling side. I'd love to see the UFC adopt that again actually. Not even with Bravo. They could have different fighters/ex fighters do it on different cards. The FOX lot of Sonnen, Cormier, Cruz etc would be good for that. Maybe guys like Serra, Hardy etc would be up for it as well.

 

Only thing I don't really like about Bellator's production is Michael Williams the ring announcer. It's not even his voice, that's fine. It's his fucking face. He's ALWAYS smiling. He's smiling even while he's announcing the fighters names. It looks totally unnatural and it bugs the fuck out of me. Irrational, I know, but there we are. I don't like his permanent smirk. It makes me think he's got a secret. Or he's just let off a crafty fart and is smug that he's gotten away with it. I don't like it.

 

UFC rarely do that these days, as it has all become overly familiar. It is the same old formula over and over again.

 

This I can agree with. I do really like the way UFC shows are presented (NOT 'Face The Pain' though, that shit needs flushing, yesterday). But they do all look and feel exactly the same. Aside from the commentary teams, there's nothing at all to distinguish a PPV from a FOX card, or a FOX card from a FOX Sports 1 card, or a FOX Sports 1 card from a Fight Pass card. It's all the same presentation. Same graphics, same clock, same cunting FOX robot. Even the same ring girls most of the time. The only difference is the PPV opening montage, and even that's ruined by us being forced to 'Face The Pain' straight after. I don't even know what I'd like to see different, but there's surely something they can do to make PPVs stand out a bit.