General politics discussion thread

[The King Of Swing]

For every 10 people who cheat the system I'm happy if my taxes help only 1.

 

When our MP's give up their expenses and second home allowences I will start taking them seriously because its pretty rich to expect people to comute to work or even relocate while the people preaching that get their expenses paid and in some cases have tax funded second homes which unless rules have changed they can actually sell on at a pure profit.

 

Now tell me who is scrounging off and robbing the state?

 

Isn't the average MP's wage something liek

[Steveo2007]

Isn't the average MP's wage something liek

[David]

An MP should not expect to be paid any more than the average wage of a skilled worker, nor do they deserve any more than that.

 

Their expenses should be used for travel and the like, but not second homes etc.

[Van Dammer]

An MP should not expect to be paid any more than the average wage of a skilled worker, nor do they deserve any more than that.

 

Their expenses should be used for travel and the like, but not second homes etc.

 

Erm, what? First of all, what is your definition of an 'average skilled worker'. The salary of an MP should have no relation to what an average person earns as its a completely different job.

 

Also, what do you suggest an MP from the north of England does when he is regularly expected to be in London a couple of times a week, just work himself into the ground travelling hundreds of miles each day?

[JNLister]

Am I missing something? Do average skilled workers have to work in two places, potentially hundreds of miles apart, and pay for accommodation in both locations and their own travel costs?

 

Does the average office manager have to pay his own secretary's wages?

 

When the average office worker writes a letter to a customer, do they have to pay for the stamp themselves?

[David]

Also, what do you suggest an MP from the north of England does when he is regularly expected to be in London a couple of times a week, just work himself into the ground travelling hundreds of miles each day?

I've been self employed and found myself having to travel a few times per week on a regular basis, spending a reasonable sum on overnight accommodation.

 

I doubt the tax man would be happy with me filing my tax report with a second home worth a couple of hundred grand on it under "expenses".

[Van Dammer]

Also, what do you suggest an MP from the north of England does when he is regularly expected to be in London a couple of times a week, just work himself into the ground travelling hundreds of miles each day?

I've been self employed and found myself having to travel a few times per week on a regular basis, spending a reasonable sum on overnight accommodation.

 

I doubt the tax man would be happy with me filing my tax report with a second home worth a couple of hundred grand on it under "expenses".

 

Thats your business choice. What do you class as average skilled worker? Post man? Builder? Factory Worker? Accountant?

 

Its as if you think everyone should have the same pay regardless of how difficult their job is or how much better equipped they are than another person to do their jobs.

[patiirc]

Your current situation must have been a drastic shock to your worldview. Rather than developing empathy with your fellow humans in similar situations, you seem to have pushed against the evidence with all your psyche, to the point where you have become utterly deluded and sought any means to confirm your existing worldview, no matter how counter-intuitive. As a result, your views have become even more extreme, unpleasant and unsympathetic.

 

Even if you were pushed onto the streets or to a point of permanent disability by this drastic attack on the welfare state, you'd be railing against the "scroungers" in the same boat as you, daring to claim the benefits that they are fully entitled to thanks to our living in a civilised society.

 

Ive been really skint before poverty stricken ( technically Iam now but I have quite a good standard of life seen as I havent done fuck all to earn it), through happenstance, I didnt bleat cry or expect anything from 'the man' I didnt wail about how the system or the government failed me. Nor did I sit around and let myself become victimised

 

I went out and found myself 2 p/t jobs, applying for loads in the process and not giving up until I found work, and still holding done a full time university place. It wasnt enough, but it helped. My health was already to shit (1st period of kidney stones) so doing both jobs didnt last due to ill health and I had to go to the University Hardship fund.. It was either that or have to quit uni and be homeless.

 

I have empathy with those who are ill and out of work and cant do things that they should, sitting back and letting it control and define you is something that leads very quickly to depression and other problems. Ive seen it first hand with a footballer who's knee ligaments snapped and ended his career. Okay he wasnt at a ny great level but it was all he knew and he went from outgoing lovable type of person to a raging alcholic recluse with an angry streak that would see him batter his missus. It was he was something of a family friend, me mum tok it upon herself to help him out, as no one else would, and eventually she pulled him out of the depression got him a job and back on track with life, ( me mum dicthed her then career and went to become a social worker of the back of it)

 

My point is a willingness to help yourself, and a refusal to give up are things that can help people through. The depression side of things is absoulutely fucking horrible and bleak, but it ultimately in some cases you just have to man up and get the fuck on with it.

 

In some cases there are going to be times when people cant work at all ever despite what they want to do (waves hand) you just have to channel yhour energies in other positive ways.

 

People who for whatever reason cant be vicitims all the time, and going back to the report on Merthyr, it was clear that the poor social mobility and the ingrained nature of the beast ( believing their own copy as it were) means that there is a refusal to help themselves inorder to not be ostracised by society. Ironically they are already ostracised because the media label them as being 'shirkers' Ive even talked to people from the North east and the ripped apart mining communities up there ( Ashington for example) re the bus and train prices and frequency etc and if they were getting the same prices and attention then they would jump at the opportunity. Ashington is 10 miles closer to Newcastle than Merthyr is to Cardiff is but there is no train station and it can be way more expensive than

Edited October 25, 2010 by patdfb

[Psygnosis]

London Fire Brigade are going on strike...on Bonfire Night, amusing (unless you get smacked in the face with fireworks or sparklers but still..)

[MinceMcMahon]

Research by the Public and Commercial Services union showed there were 15,000 people in Cardiff chasing 1,700 jobs, while in Merthyr there were 1,670 unemployed people and 39 job vacancies, all temporary and part-time.

 

The number of people out of work in Merthyr and Blaenau Gwent combined was more than the total number of job vacancies for the whole of Wales, said the PCS. The vast majority of vacancies in Cardiff were temporary and part-time, mainly unskilled labouring, for just one or three weeks' duration, said the union.

 

The most popular vacancy on the day the union carried out its research last week was a Christmas job in a well-known store working four-hour shifts on Saturdays and Sundays for the national minimum wage.

[patiirc]

Research by the Public and Commercial Services union showed there were 15,000 people in Cardiff chasing 1,700 jobs, while in Merthyr there were 1,670 unemployed people and 39 job vacancies, all temporary and part-time.

 

The number of people out of work in Merthyr and Blaenau Gwent combined was more than the total number of job vacancies for the whole of Wales, said the PCS. The vast majority of vacancies in Cardiff were temporary and part-time, mainly unskilled labouring, for just one or three weeks' duration, said the union.

 

The most popular vacancy on the day the union carried out its research last week was a Christmas job in a well-known store working four-hour shifts on Saturdays and Sundays for the national minimum wage.

 

Ah, the 'David' school of quoting random stuff without putting the origin/source of the article.

 

Here are two sources for you

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/oc...ue#comment-fold

 

 

Here is the PCS statement from their website where the Guardian report was clearly sourced.

 

Furthermore it's the union that represents the Civil Service and Government agencies that are about to be pole axed.. So obviously no agenda there either it could be argued

 

I will confirm though that's one days worth of figures 22nd October 2010 fact fans, and that was ( I assume) advertised vacancies.. So thats Job Centre and websites? ( i wouldnt know there is no criteria for these searches mentioned) nor is there any distinction re JSA's just 15,000 people n notion of people being on or off benefits and so forth and so. and as everyone is so keen to point re mobility out nothing in relation to where they live in relation to the jobs, nor anywhere else in the local vicinity either.

 

and.. as confirmed in the PCS article. Its already a requirement of JSA to travel at least up to an hour looking for work

 

Also, the fact is that when people sign on, they already sign a jobseekers agreement that says they are prepared to travel up to an hour by bus to find work. After six months this goes up to an hour and a half.

 

So could be said by some that IDS was just re stating existing (Labour additions? I dont know, some one correct me) policy rather than suggesting anything new, if you wanted to use that stance. Anyone? No, strange that

 

Any ways was just saying

[MinceMcMahon]

What? Why do you continually dodge the facts? It's not a conspiracy, there just aren't many jobs around. Do a job search and you'll find out. There are several reasons why IB is high in the area and they've already been highlighted in the thread by the report you quoted. People in the area are no lazier than anywhere else in the UK.

 

You're just a fucking mental. These people are no different to you (except they're probably a bit less retarded). I love the idea of you trawling around websites in the middle of the night. Get some sleep you spastic. Those Cardiff employment figures you posted are wrong.

[Kenny McBride]

If there are plenty of jobs available in patdfb's area, he should get off his lazy arse and get one of them. He's fit to sit and post on here all day, so it's perfectly possible that he can get a job sitting at a computer somewhere adding something to our economy. Honestly, he makes me sick. My taxes are paying for his ILLLEGAL drugs and his workshy lifestyle.

[David]

According to the Scotsman newspaper, the IFS are pretty much confirming what the majority of people already think about the cuts;

 

The poorest 20 per cent of Scotland's population will be hit hardest by the coalition government's proposed budget cuts, the head of an influential think tank told an Edinburgh audience last night.

 

Speaking for the first time on the challenges facing Scotland, Carl Emmerson, acting director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, said the effects of the government's spending review amounted to a "regressive" burden on the poor.

 

His assessment came just hours after Scottish business leaders welcomed David Cameron's call for a "new economic dynamism" to rescue Britain's crisis-hit economy, as figures published today are expected to reveal a sharp slowdown in Britain's economic recovery.

 

"Scotland is no different than the rest of the UK

[bobbins]

Your current situation must have been a drastic shock to your worldview. Rather than developing empathy with your fellow humans in similar situations, you seem to have pushed against the evidence with all your psyche, to the point where you have become utterly deluded and sought any means to confirm your existing worldview, no matter how counter-intuitive. As a result, your views have become even more extreme, unpleasant and unsympathetic.

 

Even if you were pushed onto the streets or to a point of permanent disability by this drastic attack on the welfare state, you'd be railing against the "scroungers" in the same boat as you, daring to claim the benefits that they are fully entitled to thanks to our living in a civilised society.

 

Ive been really skint before poverty stricken ( technically Iam now but I have quite a good standard of life seen as I havent done fuck all to earn it), through happenstance, I didnt bleat cry or expect anything from 'the man' I didnt wail about how the system or the government failed me. Nor did I sit around and let myself become victimised

 

I went out and found myself 2 p/t jobs, applying for loads in the process and not giving up until I found work, and still holding done a full time university place. It wasnt enough, but it helped. My health was already to shit (1st period of kidney stones) so doing both jobs didnt last due to ill health and I had to go to the University Hardship fund.. It was either that or have to quit uni and be homeless.

 

I have empathy with those who are ill and out of work and cant do things that they should, sitting back and letting it control and define you is something that leads very quickly to depression and other problems. Ive seen it first hand with a footballer who's knee ligaments snapped and ended his career. Okay he wasnt at a ny great level but it was all he knew and he went from outgoing lovable type of person to a raging alcholic recluse with an angry streak that would see him batter his missus. It was he was something of a family friend, me mum tok it upon herself to help him out, as no one else would, and eventually she pulled him out of the depression got him a job and back on track with life, ( me mum dicthed her then career and went to become a social worker of the back of it)

 

My point is a willingness to help yourself, and a refusal to give up are things that can help people through. The depression side of things is absoulutely fucking horrible and bleak, but it ultimately in some cases you just have to man up and get the fuck on with it.

 

In some cases there are going to be times when people cant work at all ever despite what they want to do (waves hand) you just have to channel yhour energies in other positive ways.

 

People who for whatever reason cant be vicitims all the time, and going back to the report on Merthyr, it was clear that the poor social mobility and the ingrained nature of the beast ( believing their own copy as it were) means that there is a refusal to help themselves inorder to not be ostracised by society. Ironically they are already ostracised because the media label them as being 'shirkers' Ive even talked to people from the North east and the ripped apart mining communities up there ( Ashington for example) re the bus and train prices and frequency etc and if they were getting the same prices and attention then they would jump at the opportunity. Ashington is 10 miles closer to Newcastle than Merthyr is to Cardiff is but there is no train station and it can be way more expensive than