King Pitcos Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I thought they only came up with the KOTR match after the WrestleMania one fell through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoistVaj Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I thought they only came up with the KOTR match after the WrestleMania one fell through. Â Yeah sorry, should have been clearer. They did indeed go for it after Shawn lost his smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 22, 2010 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) One or two things have made me think that while Bret v Shawn originally was planned to be for the title, plans would have ended up switching to an Undertaker v Sid title match anyway. The two were due to collide anyway, seeds being planted in a staredown on a December 96 Raw (Undertaker coming out when Sid remarked "I want some real competition") but something in Bret's book and also the scuttlebutt at the time about Michaels losing his smile "to avoid losing to Sid" made me think that Bret would have beaten Shawn underneath a Sid/Undertaker match for the belt. Â The question I would love answered is what were the original plans for Austin at WrestleMania? Would he and Bret have finished their intense long term rivalry on Raw?? Who would he have wrestled at 'Mania? Between being second choice for King in 1996 and replacing Michaels to wrestle the Hitman at WM13, old Cold Stone sure was in the right place a hell of a lot of the right times. Edited July 22, 2010 by air_raid_crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Rammstein Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Did Sid ever "officially" turn heel during late 1996/early 1997? He only ever seemed to have PPV matches with top-line faces like Bret, Michaels and 'Taker, yet he always got massive crowd pops and did the fan favourite-esque Sid trademark fist bumps. Â I always assumed Sid's attack on Jose Lothario was his heel turn, but even after that, he still came across as a babyface, or a tweener at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2010 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) Does anyone know what was planned for WrestleMania 13 if Michaels hadn't acted the tart? I'm watching Raws from the start of the year (I'm on the one just before he loses his smile) and there doesn't seem to be any direction other than Bret Hart's feuds with Michaels and Austin, and Ahmed vs The Nation. Was Undertaker vs Sid the plan all along? And what would Austin had done if Bret had had the rematch with Michaels? Bret vs Michaels was originally going to be a straight respect match, where at the end Michaels would be stretchered out after Bret would break his ankle/knee/leg or something. This would have been Bret's heel turn. The kind of went that way at the end of the Austin vs Bret match, but Bret was going to put Shawn out for a few months and then (with Bret as champion) Shawn was going to win the belt from him. Undertaker was alway planned to win the belt, because Bret was going to win it off him straight after on an In Your House. Everything fucked up that year though. Michaels went on strike, Brets knee gave out after Mania and needed to go under the knife. All plans had a spanner in the works (apart from Austin becoming the biggest star in the business obviously). Â Strangely, I believe Austin vs Vader was the original match for Stone Cold at WrestleMania 13. Edited July 22, 2010 by Ian_hitmanhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillkid Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) Does anyone know what was planned for WrestleMania 13 if Michaels hadn't acted the tart? I'm watching Raws from the start of the year (I'm on the one just before he loses his smile) and there doesn't seem to be any direction other than Bret Hart's feuds with Michaels and Austin, and Ahmed vs The Nation. Was Undertaker vs Sid the plan all along? And what would Austin had done if Bret had had the rematch with Michaels? Bret vs Michaels was originally going to be a straight respect match, where at the end Michaels would be stretchered out after Bret would break his ankle/knee/leg or something. This would have been Bret's heel turn. The kind of went that way at the end of the Austin vs Bret match, but Bret was going to put Shawn out for a few months and then (with Bret as champion) Shawn was going to win the belt from him. Â Strangely, I believe Austin vs Vader was the original match for Stone Cold at WrestleMania 13. I think Austin Vs Mankind would have been much better than Vader. Edited July 22, 2010 by Dillkid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 22, 2010 Paid Members Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) I think Austin Vs Mankind would have been much better than Vader. Austin and Vader were in a mini-feud (well, they went to a none finisher and Austin cut a promo on him) on WWF Superstars and were slugging it out at the Final Four PPV. If Austin was going to be doing a filler slot, I reckon Vader was going to be as good as anyone. Edited July 22, 2010 by Ian_hitmanhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) Bret vs Michaels was originally going to be a straight respect match, where at the end Michaels would be stretchered out after Bret would break his ankle/knee/leg or something. This would have been Bret's heel turn. The kind of went that way at the end of the Austin vs Bret match, but Bret was going to put Shawn out for a few months and then (with Bret as champion) Shawn was going to win the belt from him. Undertaker was alway planned to win the belt, because Bret was going to win it off him straight after on an In Your House. Everything fucked up that year though. Michaels went on strike, Brets knee gave out after Mania and needed to go under the knife. All plans had a spanner in the works (apart from Austin becoming the biggest star in the business obviously). Strangely, I believe Austin vs Vader was the original match for Stone Cold at WrestleMania 13. The thing that had me wondering is that Bret was feuding with both Austin and Michaels, and it seemed obvious that he was heading for Michaels at WrestleMania, but that would've left Austin standing around like a spare prick. Vader had just started teaming with Mankind, so I assumed the plan was always going to be for them to do something together at WrestleMania. And Undertaker and Sid had sod all to do with each other, I'd have thought if the plan was for them to face off at Mania there'd have been some build up before that point. The roster's thin as hell as well. The heel vs heel "tough man" matches on Raw at this time seem to be a cover-up for there being hardly any decent goodies.  It's a funny old game. If it weren't for HHH being involved in the curtain call and getting bumped from King of the Ring, or for Michaels concocting injuries to avoid jobbing to Bret, Austin might never have taken off the way he did.  Watching the old Raws, two things stick out. One is that they were using ECW rules most of the time, with refs not calling for DQs. The other is how often the commentators talk about "we're not promising you something we won't deliver, we're not saying someone might be here, we'll definitely have Undertaker and Ahmed Johnson vs The Nation (or whoever) tonight" which is obviously a dig at WCW. Were WCW always promising main events and not delivering at the time? The funny thing is that Vince eventually turned the tide by promoting Austin vs McMahon bait-and-switches a few times. Edited July 23, 2010 by Pityinthecityofsin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 23, 2010 Paid Members Share Posted July 23, 2010 The thing that had me wondering is that Bret was feuding with both Austin and Michaels, and it seemed obvious that he was heading for Michaels at WrestleMania, but that would've left Austin standing around like a spare prick. Vader had just started teaming with Mankind, so I assumed the plan was always going to be for them to do something together at WrestleMania. And Undertaker and Sid had sod all to do with each other, I'd have thought if the plan was for them to face off at Mania there'd have been some build up before that point. The roster's thin as hell as well. The heel vs heel "tough man" matches on Raw at this time seem to be a cover-up for there being hardly any decent goodies. Michaels gave the belt up before the In Your House PPV before WrestleMania, so I'd imagine there was a drastic rewrite after that PPV. Maybe Austin vs Bret were to be put on the shelf at Final Four, but they restarted it with Austin costing Bret the belt the night after Final Four. Im not going to pretend I know that one. It hurts my head even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I remember reading somwhere, might be in Bret's book or maybe elsewhere, that the finish to the Bret/Michaels WM13 was to involve a gimmicked boot, so Bret would seemingly twist HBK's foot off after catching his Sweet Chin Music. If he pummels away on a broken off foot for a few minutes after that, you would indeed get your effective heel turn. I would have love to have seen that finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraserbee Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) Everything fucked up that year though. Michaels went on strike, Brets knee gave out after Mania and needed to go under the knife. All plans had a spanner in the works (apart from Austin becoming the biggest star in the business obviously). Â It is amazing looking back now how many times plans had to change that year, and yet it still turned out one of the best years the WWF ever had artistically. There were the things you mentioned - Brets injuries and Michael's moods (refusing to lose to Bret, running away after the fight with Bret then refusing to lose to Davy Boy at One Night Only), but add to that Austin almost getting paralysed at Summer Slam, Brian Pillman dying and the fall out from the Survivor Series screwjob. If you consider that WWF were being soundly beaten by WCW on Monday Nights all year, working in the WWF offices must have been absolutely hellish. Edited July 23, 2010 by fraserbee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 working in the WWF offices must have been absolutely hellish. Â Too right, they probably didn't even get the water cooler reinstalled until 1998. Working that hard and drinking from bog taps just isn't on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillkid Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Where the hell has MVP gone? I'm not complaining, he is a shit babyface - just wondered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 23, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 23, 2010 Superstars probably. He's still on NXT every week, and Smackdown every other, more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillkid Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Superstars probably. He's still on NXT every week, and Smackdown every other, more or less. Oh, I thought he was still on Raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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