Ironic Indie Lad

He literally did do that with Roman Reigns though so...

8 minutes ago, David said:

I think he's seriously in danger of being passed by now. The commentary teams are better without him, and have been for a while. He's old news, and is approaching Mike Goldberg levels of nonsense.

I agree with this completely. Rogan, Anik and the revolving 3rd man of Cormier, Felder, Cruz or whoever is never good listening for me. I actually get distracted by how much absolute nonsense Rogan spouts at times.

If there was an option for the Gooden/Hardy team on every show I would gladly take that. 

4 minutes ago, Brewster McCloud said:

No. Daniel Bryan and Brock escaped, pretty much by accident, and you could say there was a sort of determined attempt to make Reigns something bigger than he'd ever be, but nah, man, they really haven't tried to create a new Hogan because why would they bother?

They escaped by accident? What is this filth?

What about Cena?

Roman Reigns was clearly a multi year project to make a giant star which didn't really work out like they thought.

Tried with Seth as a top heel and top babyface. Neither worked particularly well.

What about the enormous Becky push only this year?

Just because they haven't succeeded doesn't mean they haven't tried. You cant just CREATE a new Hogan. As much as people can laugh at the Hulkster now, he is a once in generation talent.

Would fucking love to see Kreator tbh

20 minutes ago, Brewster McCloud said:

So why the complete lack of attempts to build stars? Vince is doing just fine. The Network is the new star. 

Well they kind of have been repeatedly trying for years though haven't they?

So just to be clear...your whole argument is that you start off with stars, the stars build the brand but once the brand is established you don't need stars anymore?

I mean that's nonsense isn't it mate? Come on. Its quite simple.

• When there are big, over, money drawing stars = loads of people will watch the shows, buy the merch, buy the PPVs, attend the shows. Everyone makes more money.
• When there are no real stars = Only the diehards will stick around and keep things afloat.

Vince would give up a bollock for a Hogan or Austin right now because as weird as he is, he still understands the business deep down.

Testament,Exodus and Death Angel

Insane tour announced for next year for any fans of the glory days of thrash (although these bands have released some bad ass albums in recent years too)

1 minute ago, Brewster McCloud said:

The fact that the brands are making shitloads for the owners? Just a thought. 

Here are some facts and figures for you: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2016/07/12/ufc-vs-wwe-how-much-more-is-real-fighting-worth/#2176424850f0

UFC and WWE make loads of money? No shit!!!!! My whole point is that the value of the business and therefore the profit going to the owners is correlated to the drawing power of the stars they have.

I'm genuinely not sure what an article from 3 years ago about UFCs sale has got to do with your point? If anything it backs up what I am saying.

UFC was valued insanely high in 2016 when it was sold. Why do you think that is? "BECAUSE OF THE STRENGTH OF THE BRAND" I hear you scream. Hold on though, actually think about this. Why was THE BRAND~! so strong at the time? Was it perhaps because in 2015, UFC had multiple McGregor and Rousey fights? Of course it was.

As an example, lets just say that Bellator somehow managed to sign up McGregor and Rousey in late 2015. Do you genuinely believe the value of the UFC would be quite so high to prospective buyers in 2016?

Just now, Brewster McCloud said:

It's not bollocks. The UfC's numbers shot up in the early days when jaded wrestling fans were curious about it, but if that's still the same then why haven't they changed? My point is that "quality" whatever that means, isn't relevant now. Vince doesn't want "stars" in the old sense of the word because he was burned badly by The Rock, Batista and Brock, to a lesser extent, leaving him in the lurch and waving contracts at them that they didn't sign. 

We complain, Dana and Vince laugh and buy bigger yachts. The WWE is not a star-driven business anymore; it's a brand driven business. 

What are you talking about?

The UFC numbers were insanely good in the early days because of the novelty and curiosity of real no holds barred mixed rules fighting. On the strength of the early shows, people bought into the likes of Royce, Shamrock, Severn, Tank etc. as stars. Once they had political and PPV distribution problems, they lost their drawing cards to pro wrestling and PRIDE.

UFC was incredibly niche and struggled along for years until they got on TV and guys like Chuck, Randy, Hughes, Franklin, GSP, Silva, Penn etc.. became big names in that 2005ish 'boom' period. It's well documented how big the crossover from WWE to UFC was at the time. Ultimate Fighter was literally on immediately following RAW on the same channel and a big portion of the RAW viewership stuck around to watch TUF. Coincidentally UFC PPV buy rates went up massively. Who do you think these buyers were?

Since that initial boom UFC has sold an incredible number of PPVs (their main source of revenue) off the back of names like Lesnar, Jones, McGregor, Rousey, GSP and Silva. The only star/draw from that list that they have left is Jones. They have more product than ever, less stars than ever and way less blockbuster PPVs than ever. If any one of those names made a comeback then it would be absolutely fucking huge because they are stars and people will pay to watch them fight.

Vince and Dana don't want stars? Utter nonsense. Think about what you are saying. What is the value of THE BRAND if there are no stars? If they don't want stars then why do they keep bringing back old stars from another era to boost declining business?

WWE and UFC are both totally unsustainable without marketable stars. That's a fact. Both companies are receiving enormous guaranteed money from TV deals at the moment but when those deals expire, if business everywhere else is way down and there's no big stars then do you really think those contracts are going to be worth quite so much money?

Crazy to think this was after Andre died the day after 'Mania 3

I am fairly sure big Dave reported that there's a clause in the contracts that WWE can opt to buy them out at any time for a six figure sum

5 minutes ago, Brewster McCloud said:

The WWE is in competition with social media and Netflix. certainly not MMA or other wrestling companies. A small percentage of people who grew up loving the WWF 80s era gravitated towards MMA in later life, but it's not a significant number. You could throw a stone in the crowd of the next Raw and ask the guy it hits if he thinks BJ Penn should still be fighting and he will look at you with puzzlement. And perhaps anger for throwing a stone at him in the first place.

Sounds like bollocks to me there pal. What are you basing that on? The crossover from jaded former wrestling fan to MMA fan was absolutely massive. It's cooled off a bit now but when UFC had Chuck, Rand, Tito, GSP, Silva, Brock, Conor, Ronda etc. then a huge percentage of the fans were either current or former wrestling fans.

Also re: the massive amounts of money they are making. Do you realise the vast majority of their money comes from guaranteed TV money? On contracts based on the assumption that a boom period is coming when they move to fox? That's not really a reflection of the quality of the current product when every other relevant metric such as attendance, network subs etc. are way down.

Point is, wrestling/MMA are both star driven businesses. Always have been and always will be. What constitutes a star changes with the times so its stupid and ignorant to say that a massively roided up, tanned cokehead maniac would be a huge hit now just because it got over in the 80s. Hogan was the right guy at the right time, Austin was the right guy at the right time etc. There have been brief moments since (CM Punk in 2011, Daniel Bryan in 2013) where it looked like everything was falling into place but it never really materialised for a variety of reasons.

UFC business is down because they lost their biggest draws and were unable to replace them. WWE business is down because nobody there is perceived as a star.

Ahahahahahaha I forgot about the camera on the forklift for Rock/Mankind. That was unbelievably stupid.

I know that when I assault my enemies, I tend to set up hidden cameras first.

8 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

David Starr is one of the best in the world.

A worrying post. I have contacted the relevant authorities.

No matter who goes to New Japan, NXT or AEW...the UK scene can always rely on David Starr for some reason lmao.

Any brothers on here worked the CBD Oil gimmick?

That Austin/Hogan podcast was a tremendous listen.

Highlight for me was Terry suggesting that he knew the Warrior tragedy was imminent. He literally claims he was backstage with Vince during the RAW after 'Mania 30 and was giving it "Get the camera off of him, brother. Something isn't right!"

14 hours ago, AdamTH17 said:

Just me that's been really underwhelmed by both the performances of EVIL and SANADA? Feel like people have been saying the G1 is going to be their launching pad for a singles run for the past 2/3 tournaments, but on the basis of this year especially I'd rather just keep them as a tag team. One of them is absolutely going over Okada as well at this point.

Lance Archer on the other hand has exceeded any expectation I'd set for him going in. Nobody with a tramp stamp that shit should be delivering matches as good as he has been doing. Stick the NEVER Championship on him for a good few months if DBS has properly fucked off.

I wouldn't say I've been underwhelmed necessarily as pretty much all of their matches have been good to great. Both guys have been overshadowed in the A block for sure though. They probably would have stood out more in the B block.

Archer seems to have come into this tournament with a plan to totally reinvent himself as a singles and it's 100% worked. He's upped his stock massively. Archer/Ishii NEVER title program is an extremely delicious prospect to me now.

Caught up last night and thought Ospreay and ZSJ was definitely among the top matches of the tournament.

Anyone got any predictions for the Royal Quest card? Anything I thought would be set up in the G1 hasn't really materialised.

To be clear, I wasn't being mean. I just don't need much of an excuse to whip out that iconic Hogan tweet. Sorry for any offense, brothers.

Surely the venues, the merch style, the violence, the music etc. was all part of that same marketing though?

Like I said, I don't follow PROGRESS and never really have beyond odd bits and pieces. To me, I would assume they rightfully looked at the usual British indy show in a leisure centre with people giving it the "SHALL I?????" routine and recognised it was painfully uncool. Going into city centre rock clubs, presenting an edgier product, merch etc. All good moves.

I just think its a bit naïve to think a niche indy isn't going to "sell out" to WWE if given a good offer. It's a bit like people going mental when a band they used to like ends up on daytime radio 1 to me.

Caught up with all of the tournament matches (except this mornings A Block show) and the quality has been totally insane.

For anyone who fancies checking out some of the best matches without following along, I would say my personal highlights have been -

• Ishii vs White
• Ospreay vs Okada
• Ospreay vs Ibushi
• Tanahashi vs Sabre
• Moxley vs Ishii
• Shingo vs Juice

Loved all of the above but Archer, Sanada, Evil, KENTA etc have had mostly good to great matches too.

A block was always going to be the better of the 2 with that line up but Ishii and Shingo have been bringing it in the B block. I cannot wait for their match.

1 hour ago, Brewster McCloud said:

Here's what I want from a potential Labour government: Make a policy, a serious policy, about Big Tech and Big Pharm as they are the most important issues currently facing us.

More like big beats and big moods, granddad!

Not the worst idea I've ever heard.

Personally I think McGregor would be foolish to come back and fight a genuine top 5 on-form 155lber. After the long hiatus, the Mayweather loss, the Khabib loss this is a good chance to come back for a winnable fight against a good name.

I just think you got worked, personally. I don't follow PROGRESS closely (I cant support a product with a fan base who often use the word 'graps') but surely the whole PUNK ROCK PRO WRESTLING was just a marketing slogan.

Progress and ICW were both seen as these cool outsider indies for a bit but of course they got into bed with WWE at the first sniff of some cash and exposure. Why wouldn't they?

7 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

 personally buying into there mantras and whole punk rock pro wrestling brand to have them completely go back on everything they once preached is disappointing as a whole.

"Goodnight HULKAMANIACS and jabronie marks without a life that don't know it a work when you work a work and work yourself into a shoot,marks

— Hulk Hogan (@HulkHogan)"