Boxing Thread

[Van Dammer]

What did Haye actually say or do that was that bad? I dont recall comments about the Klitschko's old dear or anything sinister like that.

He never said anything out of line, it's simply the fact that he spent two fucking years talking about how he was going to knock Wladimir & Vitali out, and how he was much better than both of them, that they were both frauds and so on.

 

Now, that's all well & good. So long as you can at least come close to backing up what you say.

 

If Haye had went in there, and managed to rock Wladimir a few times, maybe knocked him down or something but lost the fight then I'm sure there would have been a lot of interest in a rematch.

 

As it was he went in and did fuck all, exept continually throw himself to the ground to try and get points taken away from Wladimir. Did the Sky Box Office commentary team mention the fact that Adam Booth (Haye's trainer) had spent most of the fighter information seminar the previous day going over & over the idea of Klitschko holding and pushing opponents around illegally with the referee? As one US commentator put it, when Klitschko got a point taken away it was a point won for Haye by Booth the previous day.

 

Top all of that off by him immediately taking his boot off after the decision was announced to show everyone his broken toe, and you have a pretty cringeworthy performance all round by Haye.

 

When you compare him to the last great heavyweight from these shores it really is sad. Lewis was a classy guy and a superb fighter. Haye's a moron.

 

Every boxer in history has said before a fight that hes the better man and he will win. Is Audley Harrison a moron for saying he would knock Haye out? Well maybe actually.

 

Booth didnt win Haye a point, Wladimir kept putting his arms over the top of Haye and pushed him down and even threw him on one occasion, he was rightly penalised.

 

It really annoys me that the British public automatically see anyone that loses in Sport as a failure, everytime an England team returns home trophyless its a 'debacle', everytime a boxers loses a fight hes a 'fraud' and every time any British team loses in Football, Rugby, Cricket etc they are seen as hopeless, despite them usually getting to finals and achieving more than most other teams.

 

Sport has to have a winner and a loser in most cases, David Haye hasnt got to where he is because hes a 'moron', hes beaten alot of guys and boxed very well in the process. He was beaten on Saturday by a very good boxer who by most peoples books boxed one of his best fights to date. Haye landed some good blows and so did Wlad and in the end Wladimir was the better fighter. No more, no less.

 

If Adam Booth hadn't of spent most of the week leading up to the fight kicking up a fuss about Wladimir's tactics of leaning on a guy, then that point deduction would not of taken place. This is just one of many tricks which trainers, managers etc always do, especially when their man is boxing away from home.

 

 

I agree to an extent, but Wlad was still doing something he shouldnt. He wasnt penalised just because of what Booth said previously, he was penalised because he was doing something he shouldnt, over and over despite many warnings from the referee, in many ways he was lucky with just the one point deduction.

[hitman89762000]

Have there been any recent rumours of oscar de la hoya wanting to face amir khan?

 

i ask because this has popped up on oscars twitter account tonight:

 

OscarDeLaHoya Oscar De La Hoya

Amir khan let's do it.

19 minutes ago

[METAL ON METAL]

Have there been any recent rumours of oscar de la hoya wanting to face amir khan?

 

i ask because this has popped up on oscars twitter account tonight:

 

OscarDeLaHoya Oscar De La Hoya

Amir khan let's do it.

19 minutes ago

 

Isn't De La Hoya his promoter? Likely just talking about the Judah fight.

[wandshogun09]

Erik Morales is fighting Anthony Crolla on the Mayweather/Ortiz undercard. Nice to see Brits getting big names but Morales should win this comfortably even now imo.

[mikey]

I wouldn't bother too much with Mikey's comments. He was big on Haye winning the fight, or at least putting in a good showing, neither of which happened.

 

He's also got a cheek to talk about "haters", especially since he's spent the past few months talking negatively about Wladimir in this thread, and insists on continuing to do so.

 

To be honest, I'm not having that. I'm a Haye fan. I think he was a tremendous, exciting, world-class cruiserweight and have been a fan for six years because he fought up the ranks the hard way. However, suggesting I've been talking negatively about Wlad for months is just wrong. Looking back through what I said, I've defended Wlad's record, I've said he has an amazing jab and an amazing 1-2 and that he's a great fighter. On the negative side, I said that everybody's up his arse, that he's pretty dull and that's why the Americans don't care. None of that is especially negative. Everybody does kiss his arse.

 

Those who talk up the Wlad's class won't answer why if he's so classy, why did he continue to trash-talk after the fight? It's dickish and flies in the face of his supposed persona. Given the allegations that have also been made against Wlad and his promoter, from the way they negotiate to sending Haye in through the crowd, it shouldn't surprise anybody that Wlad did it. He's not classy, he's a boxer.

 

Haye had a chance to beat Wlad, he chose to use the same shitty tactics everybody else did. Even using those same shitty tactics, he did miles better that everybody else who tried them. Was it the best performance, no, but as I said before, nobody ever looks good against him.

[Sergio Bellend]

Have there been any recent rumours of oscar de la hoya wanting to face amir khan?

 

i ask because this has popped up on oscars twitter account tonight:

 

OscarDeLaHoya Oscar De La Hoya

Amir khan let's do it.

19 minutes ago

 

Isn't De La Hoya his promoter? Likely just talking about the Judah fight.

 

Looking back now, I presume that is about the proposed Mayweather fight for the back end of 2012.

[Egg Shen]

What did Haye actually say or do that was that bad? I dont recall comments about the Klitschko's old dear or anything sinister like that.

He never said anything out of line, it's simply the fact that he spent two fucking years talking about how he was going to knock Wladimir & Vitali out, and how he was much better than both of them, that they were both frauds and so on.

 

Now, that's all well & good. So long as you can at least come close to backing up what you say.

 

If Haye had went in there, and managed to rock Wladimir a few times, maybe knocked him down or something but lost the fight then I'm sure there would have been a lot of interest in a rematch.

 

As it was he went in and did fuck all, exept continually throw himself to the ground to try and get points taken away from Wladimir. Did the Sky Box Office commentary team mention the fact that Adam Booth (Haye's trainer) had spent most of the fighter information seminar the previous day going over & over the idea of Klitschko holding and pushing opponents around illegally with the referee? As one US commentator put it, when Klitschko got a point taken away it was a point won for Haye by Booth the previous day.

 

Top all of that off by him immediately taking his boot off after the decision was announced to show everyone his broken toe, and you have a pretty cringeworthy performance all round by Haye.

 

When you compare him to the last great heavyweight from these shores it really is sad. Lewis was a classy guy and a superb fighter. Haye's a moron.

 

Every boxer in history has said before a fight that hes the better man and he will win. Is Audley Harrison a moron for saying he would knock Haye out? Well maybe actually.

 

Booth didnt win Haye a point, Wladimir kept putting his arms over the top of Haye and pushed him down and even threw him on one occasion, he was rightly penalised.

 

It really annoys me that the British public automatically see anyone that loses in Sport as a failure, everytime an England team returns home trophyless its a 'debacle', everytime a boxers loses a fight hes a 'fraud' and every time any British team loses in Football, Rugby, Cricket etc they are seen as hopeless, despite them usually getting to finals and achieving more than most other teams.

 

Sport has to have a winner and a loser in most cases, David Haye hasnt got to where he is because hes a 'moron', hes beaten alot of guys and boxed very well in the process. He was beaten on Saturday by a very good boxer who by most peoples books boxed one of his best fights to date. Haye landed some good blows and so did Wlad and in the end Wladimir was the better fighter. No more, no less.

 

If Adam Booth hadn't of spent most of the week leading up to the fight kicking up a fuss about Wladimir's tactics of leaning on a guy, then that point deduction would not of taken place. This is just one of many tricks which trainers, managers etc always do, especially when their man is boxing away from home.

 

Listen, as I said before the weekend, I've been following David ever since the World Amatuer championships, I was there and saw him lose to Odlanier Solis to come home with a Silver medal, but I knew he was a bit special just by seeing certain moves which he made, so I kept my eye on him ever since. I've seen him fight at the York Hall also, and was there in France when beat Jean-Marc Mormeck and the Macarinelli fight, so it's fair to say that I can give a fair comment here. I've been in Boxing all of my life, my dad and all of his five brothers boxed, three of them turned professional, and my great-grandfather was one of the "House Seconds" for the historic National Sporting Club, and during his time there he worked the corners of such fighters as Ted Kid Lewis, Bombardier Wells, Jimmy Wilde, Micky Walker...you get the point. The reason I'm including this in my post, is just to show that I'm not the sort who gets carried away with current fighters when they have a few victories and jump on their bandwagon without knowing any better. I attend quite a lot of top level amateur shows and have done for years, competing in some of them during the years of 1996-2004, so I've seen a few guys who have become stars, and I almost always remain impartial when it comes to watching these fighters who I have kept an eye on for a few years, but with David Haye, I'll be honest, I always thought he was very special and would fulfill his goals, one of the main things he had going for him (but no control over) was the timing of his career. He came along at just the right time and I felt that he had a brilliant opportunity to grab what he wanted.

 

While it is true that all fighters do indeed say they are going to win, that they will do this and do that but unfortunatley for David, he himself left very little room for failure with some of the things he said before the fight.

 

The worst thing, I believe, is that David spent years telling anyone who would listen that he would not be another one of those guys who would just give up after the first few rounds and just let Wladimir pepper him with the jab and hypnotize him with it.

 

The tactics were ALL WRONG. When you are fighting a guy who's whole game is about controlling the pace, commanding the centre of the ring, and always needing to be "on top"....then why on earth would you allow him to do those things, Haye needed to jab with Wlad (and if you think that is nonsense, then re-watch rounds 3-5, where Haye was out-jabbing Wlad) use more foot-feignts and throw more body punches to move Wlad back. Whenever Haye advanced, Wladimir done what he always does and cannot change...he got scared and begins to panic.

 

Wladimir is a very good technician, but he wasn't doing anything special that forced Haye to perform in the way he did. If Klitschko was, for instance, throwing that solid straight right hand through the middle whenever David advanced or came forward, then that would be fine and it would explain such a non-effort from Haye, similar to Hatton Vs Mayweather, Ricky couldnt get going and get inside properly because Floyd was shaking him right down to his boots with right hand leads whenever he moved forward, a few rounds went by and Ricky more or less gave up because he couldnt implement his plans because Floyd was killing them before they could even get going. He got careless and we know what happened there. If that was the case for Haye against Wladimir, then fair enough and we would be able to say Haye tried his best but he was up against a better fighter who had the superior physical, mental and technical ability to execute his game plan.

 

You can not go into the ring with a man of Wladimir's size, proportions and ability, without the correct tactics and the physical and mental toughness to execute them. I like Adam Booth and I think he has a very good boxing brain, but the tactics that David was using were basic, to say the very least....crude and rudimentary....downright STUPID is more accurate. Having said that, I would be shocked if those were indeed the tactics which the Hayemaker team came up with. David blames his toe for not being able to execute the plans he had, well....Ive had the same injury and it's no fun at all, but I also know what the adrenaline rush from boxing infront of a crowd feels like....not to mention the syringe full of Lidocaine that the Doctor apparently whacked into it 5 minutes before the fight, so that excuse doesn't fly for me. His toe did look in bad shape, but it didn't seem to bother him during the public workout a couple days before, and like I say, adrenaline and the Lidocaine would surely of been enough.

 

I posted in this boxing thread last week that I was concerned about Wladimir's speed. There was lots of talk and rightly so, about Haye's speed, but I think that Wladimir's speed is massivley underrated, both hand speed and foot speed. He turns that right hand over like a bolt of lightning. So I think David was shocked himself with the speed of Wlad, and it knocked his confidence all over the place because David was supposed to be the fast one and it was one of the only ways for him to win.

 

Winning and losing aside, though, if you asked people before the fight what they felt would be the worst outcome, for the sport of boxing....then I'm fairly sure that almost all of them would say something like "We really do not need another farcical fight, not with the state the division is in right now, and definatley not with such a massive worldwide audience watching....we need this fight to shine and show that Heavyweight boxing is still something special."

 

Another interesting observation I had in the Stadium, was the ring-walks. I watched the video of the fight when I got back from Hamburg, and the ring-walks looked as dangerous as they did when I was there....well, David Haye's ring walk, I should say. Haye and Klitschko walked to the ring through two different pathways once they emerged from those makeshift TV sets that provided those elaborate ring entrances. Well, as everyone noticed who watched the fight on TV, it was chaos when Haye made his way through the crowd, the security were seriously unprepared, and because the few security guys were trying so hard to just move forward with eachother, they left Haye un-protected, which is why one of the crowd members wrapped his arms around Haye's waist and lifted him up, it was crazy. I've never seen such a breach in security, and certainly not in a situation like that. They were lucky really, because this could've turned ugly as it only takes one person to start fighting in a crowd and it soon spreads. Anyway, there were no barriers separating Haye as he made his way to the ring, but there were barriers in place on Klitschko's route and much more security, so with this being a K2 promotion, it might've been a little skull-duggery, I'm not saying this effected the fight, but it was very dangerous and someone could've been hurt.

 

I will post my analysis of the fight later tonight or tomorrow, because for now I'm going to dig into my "Archive", as I call it, which is my spare room that I converted, which houses my fight footage collection, I have a few thousand VHS, about 400 DVD's, but my favourites are my film reel collection, it's not often that I get the projector out and take the reels out of their tins and run them, but I'm going to immerse myself in some of my favourite fights from the pre-war period, and try to remove the sour taste from my mouth that I received in Hamburg.

excellent post

 

too add a little positivity to the whole thing...i watched the fight in a bar in Milton Keynes in 3D, i was a bit sceptical beforehand but i had no choice as a i away for the weekend. It was f'n awesome! We had front row seats in the pub over 2 settee's directly infront of a 50" screen. The 3D element is forgotten after a while but it was still very cool, the sound in there was pumping too so when them wild ring entrances were taking place it was mindblowing, it was by far the best experience of watching a fight introduction ive ever seen, shivers down the spine stuff for me.

 

The actual fight couldn't have been worse from a casual boxing fan's perspective. To give you an example pretty much all my mates know im a boxing fan so they come to me when something actually takes their fancy (which is rare). I had at least 5 people text me letting me know how shit the whole thing was. That aint good i enjoyed it because i was so emotionally invested going in i just found it incredibly intense despite the poor content of the fight. When you consider that Matthew Macklin entered Germany a week prior and put in a performance the whole country could have been proud of yet 98% of the people that watched over the weekend never even knew that that fight happened you gotta know that something is seriously wrong and unfair.

[Big Jock Knew]

When you consider that Matthew Macklin entered Germany a week prior and put in a performance the whole country could have been proud of yet 98% of the people that watched over the weekend never even knew that that fight happened you gotta know that something is seriously wrong and unfair.

 

The difference is Macklin boxed superbly and was deserving of the win, probably only losing because of the judges being a mob of homers or the fact that Sturm had a good last round. Haye was an embarrassment in his pre-fight build up and performed admirably, but still way below par of what he promised or what was expected of him.

 

I also don't believe in this whole "you have to support your countryman" bullshit in boxing. I'm prepared to accept that I'll lean towards a home-grown boxer if I think he deserves it, but Haye isn't worthy of my support. He is a talented fighter but he is an insufferable knob. I'm still disappointed that Klitschko didn't knock him out.

[Egg Shen]

neither do i, but the media will always rally behind a home fighter.

[Egg Shen]

oh and we did get to see this...

 

 

 

[David]

oh and we did get to see this...

 

 

 

Fucking hell...

[cheetah69uk]

Ricky Hatton has announced his retirement

[CuckedByMenry]

.

[MMA_Dan]

.

 

Love that! After last weekend I've become a great fan of Wlad, he was very respectful of the British fans even after all the shit he got at the weigh in. . Haye however...wanker

[wandshogun09]

If anyones interested Primetime are showing the Bute/Mendy fight free to air Saturday from 7pm.