Impact wrestling thread - It's a Don West tribute thread now!

[Professor Paul's Bin]

I didn't mind the ending of Impact. Styles has improved on the stick for sure but Dixie isn't strong enough to pull off an angle like this. I like the idea though. I'd rather them put out Dixie as an authority figure for a while, sack Hogan and free up some cash. I thought the promo mentioned the wrong X-Divison guys, I'd have preferred to hear Alex Shelley, Low-Ki, Samoa Joe, Daniels, Petey, Eric Young, Doug Williams and then him to mention the likes of Monty Brown, Lance Hoyt, Magnus and other homegrown stars. I assume this may have been problematic to who is actually in the good books with TNA which is no doubt a small amount of ex-wrestlers. Vice versa to.

 

Another problem is the crowd weren't too good for the angle, I could imagine they were worn out from the 4 hour taping and were burnt out from some of the shite they'd have to endure earlier on. Also I'd like to think alot of the fans who pay to see TNA don't really know about the history of TNA and probably don't give a shit.

[Slapnut]

I'd have preferred to hear Alex Shelley, Low-Ki, Samoa Joe, Daniels, Petey, Eric Young, Doug Williams and then him to mention the likes of Monty Brown, Lance Hoyt, Magnus and other homegrown stars. I assume this may have been problematic to who is actually in the good books with TNA which is no doubt a small amount of ex-wrestlers. Vice versa to.

 

Why would he have mentioned current TNA stars when the promo was specifically about wrestlers being fired?

Edited September 20, 2013 by Slapnut

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I didn't mind the ending of Impact. Styles has improved on the stick for sure but Dixie isn't strong enough to pull off an angle like this. I like the idea though.

The idea is what makes the angle so abysmal. There is zero upside to this angle. No interest will be created, no new star will be created, the angle wont draw money, we've seen the same angle done a million times before. Two idiot hicks arguing the reasons why the company is terrible is the most counter productive angle you can do. Why would anyone care about this? Why would any person watching TNA give a single shit about the story behind this? Why would the fans in the arena care? Fans dont care if Petey Williams is on the street eating out of wheelie bins, so why should they care about his name being dropped in a main event promo. It was a poor rip off of CM Punk's 2011 stuff. Except Punk name dropped Mick Foley and Chris Jericho. AJ name dropped Petey Williams and Low Ki.

 

Also there is zero truth to this "shoot promo". AJ crying that Dixie Carter "ruined the chemistry" is pathetic TV to watch. "Ruined the chemistry" of those Nikita Koloff run ins from the Fairgrounds in Nashville. Its this bullshit spin they try and put on TNA in real life. Everything I hate about wrestling was in this promo. Its the same shit I used to watch back in 2000. I dont want to watch old WCW 2000 re-runs anymore.

Edited September 20, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Socrates]

The promo itself was rather good for what it was I thought . Styles and Dixie had their best promos in a while (not that that's difficult) and as a one off I quite enjoyed it.

 

But the problem lies in what Ian is saying. It goes nowhere after this and will end up counter-productive. It's hard to make an angle like that work anyway, and when it comes to TNA they've got almost zero chance of making something positive out of it.

 

The only way they could make something positive out of it would be to actually bring back some of the guys Styles was talking about. But we all know that can't and won't happen.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Yeah for an angle like this, you need people who can really turn chicken shit into a chicken sarnie. I thought Dixie (for her limited experience and lack of instincts) did as good as she could possibly do in the position she was put it. She was stuttery as fuck and Linda McMahon-esque at times, but standards are at rock bottom when she picks the microphone up at the best of times, that you just accepted it was going to be like that. You weren't going to get any better from her, but you could certainly get a lot worse. So she wasn't as disastrous as I imagined. I didn't think AJ brought it at all. He always seems like such a whiny little bitch everytime he opens his mouth. There's always this resentment towards AJ from a lot of fans (including me) when he spouts his "I've built this company" bollocks. He's been nowhere in wrestling. He's never took a single risk. He stayed in his comfort zone for 11 years and will have little value if TNA died tomorrow. He's been on a paid vacation since 2002. Him blaming anyone for jumping ship, when he never had the balls to jump to WWE comes across as cringe inducing twattery. Daniel Bryan took the risk in going to WWE. CM Punk took the risk in going to WWE. He never did. Samoa Joe never did, but Joe was as big of a star as you can get outside WWE for a large period. So arguably he was best suited for TNA in his prime. AJ was fantastic and looked great. He could have been where Bryan and Punk are now. And I'm sure he's bitter about not taking the jump. CM Punk even wrote "Envy is a sin" on twitter in regards to why AJ bitches about him whenever he gets the chance.

 

But if you did the same shockingly horrendous idea with two great promos, you'd be more inclined to believe they could drag logic out out for. For example, if they'd have given Punk and Heyman the same storyline, they'd have tried to force logic out of it. They would have hit key lines and expanded on them. Not AJ and Dixie, though. They just assume everyone knows the far end of a fart and speak in one sentence bullet points. Just the idea of this pair carrying a feud is mind boggling.

Edited September 20, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Socrates]

Yeah for an angle like this, you need people who can really turn chicken shit into a chicken sarnie. I thought Dixie (for her limited experience and lack of instincts) did as good as she could possibly do in the position she was put it. You weren't going to get any better from her, but you could certainly get a lot worse. I didn't think AJ brought it at all. He always seems like such a whiny little bitch everytime he opens his mouth. But if you did the same shockingly horrendous idea with two great promos, you'd be more inclined to believe they could drag logic out out for. For example, if they'd have given Punk and Heyman the same storyline, they'd have tried to force logic out of it. They would have hit key lines and expanded on them. Not AJ and Dixie, though. They just assume everyone knows the far end of a fart and speak in one sentence bullet points. Just the idea of this pair carrying a feud is mind boggling.

 

Agreed. I enjoyed it, despite their limitations, but am absolutely 100% sure it'll just get worse and worse from here and fast.

 

AJ's thing about leaving one of the band of brothers standing wasn't good, as you know Samoe Joe, Daniels etc were part of that band, but weren't relevant to the topic, so conveniently forgotten in this instance. The thing about the two year paid vacation wasn't good either, as he could have made some real examples, but didn't hit on the key points. Also the bit about not working with a contract "despite what the internet says" was stupid. I assume they're gonna go with a "AJ must win at Bound For Glory or he's gone" angle. Which all that does is make the likelihood that he wins the title at BFG go from 95% to 100%.

[diamond_dust]

I don't think the whole angle is as bad as people are making it out to be. AJ didn't really say the company is shit, more that they just dropped the ball with talented wrestlers to make room for ones with name value. While it could be taken as a real life shot at people like Kevin Nash & Christian there has always been story lines in wrestling where the big names feud against the homegrown talent who either want to prove they are ready for the spot or feel they have been pushed out of the spot so the only difference here is instead of feuding with the wrestler AJ is going after the one who brought them in.

 

Dixie isn't a TV character and did OK for the angle but at the moment there isn't anyone else you can put in the role so its the best of a bad situation.

 

Ian said about AJ never taking a risk but I have to give the guy credit for that. He turned down a developmental deal in 2001 because he could take better care of his family with what he earned on the indies. It doesn't matter how long you've been in TNA if you jump to WWE today they still only offer you a developmental deal and if he was earning more for the odd indy show back then you have to believe that he's earning a hell of a lot more for being a big fish in TNA. Of course if that is just an excuse and it was all an ego issue then everything Ian said is true but with AJ he seems the type who'll come out and bitch to everyone who will listen that he's too good for development.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Ian said about AJ never taking a risk but I have to give the guy credit for that. He turned down a developmental deal in 2001 because he could take better care of his family with what he earned on the indies. It doesn't matter how long you've been in TNA if you jump to WWE today they still only offer you a developmental deal and if he was earning more for the odd indy show back then you have to believe that he's earning a hell of a lot more for being a big fish in TNA.

And now he finds himself in a position late on his career where he has to sign a three month extension because the company cant afford his low six figure deal, and has no negotiating power. When he was on TV, Tyson Kidd will have made more money from an international tour and action figure money than AJ Styles makes. AJ Styles rakes in a downside guarantee and that is all. The likes of Punk and Bryan are set for life. And AJ had as much potential as both of them when he was in his 20s. Styles wasn't a Lance Hoyt or a Sonjay Dutt. He was a dynamic performer who blew everyone away at one stage. The way they have treated him over his contract negotiations is shocking. Its sad that all the work he has put in and at age 36 his standing in the business is pretty fucked, and TNA can use his loyalty as a means to not even sign him to a long term deal. It comes to that question of why is he even in the business? TNA's a good gig, but its never going to last forever. If he didn't want to do the WWE schedule, then pinning your hopes on TNA continuing to pay you decent money just isn't a smart move. So many people in WCW had the same attitude and you never saw them again.

Edited September 20, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[diamond_dust]

Ian said about AJ never taking a risk but I have to give the guy credit for that. He turned down a developmental deal in 2001 because he could take better care of his family with what he earned on the indies. It doesn't matter how long you've been in TNA if you jump to WWE today they still only offer you a developmental deal and if he was earning more for the odd indy show back then you have to believe that he's earning a hell of a lot more for being a big fish in TNA.

And now he finds himself in a position late on his career where he has to sign a three month extension because the company cant afford his low six figure deal, and has no negotiating power. When he was on TV, Tyson Kidd will have made more money from an international tour and action figure money than AJ Styles makes. AJ Styles rakes in a downside guarantee and that is all. The likes of Punk and Bryan are set for life. And AJ had as much potential as both of them when he was in his 20s. Styles wasn't a Lance Hoyt or a Sonjay Dutt. He was a dynamic performer who blew everyone away at one stage. The way they have treated him over his contract negotiations is shocking. Its sad that all the work he has put in and at age 36 his standing in the business is pretty fucked, and TNA can use his loyalty as a means to not even sign him to a long term deal. It comes to that question of why is he even in the business? TNA's a good gig, but its never going to last forever. If he didn't want to do the WWE schedule, then pinning your hopes on TNA continuing to pay you decent money just isn't a smart move. So many people in WCW had the same attitude and you never saw them again.

 

The question wasn't where he is now was it? Your comment was about him not taking risks in the past and for the last few years it would've been whats best for him and his family. He couldn't have expected things to fuck up so badly because with all the tools TNA have had handed to them at various points it took something really special to put them where they are now. Add to that when he was offered the deal AJ was a kid who would've been lost in the shuffle of WCW rejects down in development and would probably have been released along with Kaz Hayashi or called up for the roles Shannon Moore had at best. It's OK saying how Punk/Bryan turned out but both have much better promo skills and waited much longer than AJ would've done if he'd signed the contract back then.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

The question wasn't where he is now was it? Your comment was about him not taking risks in the past and for the last few years it would've been whats best for him and his family. He couldn't have expected things to fuck up so badly because with all the tools TNA have had handed to them at various points it took something really special to put them where they are now. Add to that when he was offered the deal AJ was a kid who would've been lost in the shuffle of WCW rejects down in development and would probably have been released along with Kaz Hayashi or called up for the roles Shannon Moore had at best. It's OK saying how Punk/Bryan turned out but both have much better promo skills and waited much longer than AJ would've done if he'd signed the contract back then.

What are you talking about? I've tried to write a reply to this several times and deleted it, because I have no idea what your point is. I never mentioned a specific time. And the timeline I mentioned certainly didn't include the time he was offered $500 to join the HWA when WCW went under. His reputation grew as a wrestler following the offer of a developmental contract. And because he had a place to work in TNA, if WWE wanted him (which they did several times, 2004 especially), his negotiation power would have been higher than most in TNA. AJ Styles is as good a promo as Dolph Ziggler is and a far better worker. So your point about his microphone skills isn't valid. And if he went to developmental, he may have developed into a more well-rounded character, instead of picking up the bad habits of working for TNA for 11 years. You seem to be under the impression that developmental contracts are for low ball offers. That only applies if you haven't got anywhere else to work. Alberto Del Rio certainly never worked for a few hundred when he was in FCW and neither would AJ Styles.

 

And my original point was, Styles shouldn't publicly bash anyone for jumping to TNA or leaving to go to WWE when he's never did and therefor got messed about because of it.

He couldn't have expected things to fuck up so badly because with all the tools TNA have had handed to them at various points it took something really special to put them where they are now.

What? TNA have been close to going under several times during his tenure. And the fact everyone leaves TNA, should tell someone with a brain its probably best to keep your options open. Which he hasn't.

Edited September 20, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[diamond_dust]

Well first of all you said he "never took risks" which implied you're talking about over his career which is why I said about the past.

 

In 2004 he probably felt his position in TNA wasn't worth throwing away to take the chance of starting from scratch in WWE but thats just my guess. You'd have to ask him what his reasons were. At any later opportunities he might have felt at risk of being the next Braden Walker.

 

Alberto Del Rio is a different case. He was a star in Mexico. If CMLL were pissed with him for leaving and his WWE run bombed then he could go to AAA with his name value & family value. If AJ jumps and TNA decide to black ball him his options aren't as good.

 

Ability is subjective. For me in 2004 his promo's weren't consistent enough and that hasn't changed yet. He does come off at times like he's whining but there are times when he is a great talker too. Maybe it's just because he's jaded but there are a few examples of his promo's not being up to WWE standard. I still say if he had signed back then he wouldn't have made it, but again it's only a guess there's no way anyone can say that for certain.

 

& finally, yes TNA have come close to going under but in theory they have been presented a blank cheque book with Panda, a highly supportive network in Spike & had the biggest name in wrestling sign up bringing with him a man who should have learnt from his mistakes made with WCW. When each of those things were announced backstage it would be easy for someone to think "this could be the turning point for us now" and if someone at the top thinks that the company is going to bet stronger and his wage is going to get bigger why would he leave that when he's in on the ground floor?

 

All I'm saying is I can see why he never left when he's stated that he turned down WWE to provide for his family and he's doing that and become a star as well. If his priority was to get the Austin level of fame then he would've tried that back in 2001. As for bashing people who have been to WWE I think he can have some right to do that since in the context he's trying to portray loyalty to a company he built. As you've said WWE wanted him numerous times and he has stayed loyal so it's not like he hasn't had the chance to WWE and is just ranting against people because he's bitter. That's besides the fact he's bashing them because he was told to in a kayfabe promo so it's not like he's been blasting them in a shoot either.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

So what you are saying is he should have been happy where he was, regardless of the opportunities he could have been presented with, of which he had many to advance his own career many times over and provide a living for his family for the rest of his life. As opposed to waiting until the Spike money runs out? Well forgive me for thinking someone of his talent (which is unquestionable, regardless of how you want to spin it) should have higher aspirations in the business. Its funny how CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Nigel McGuinness, Antonio Cesaro, Ron Killings and even the likes of Monty Brown either never signed or never re-signed with TNA and left, yet AJ stuck around. You are talking as if TNA was some money train that nobody saw coming off the tracks. That was never the case. TNA has been filled with lawsuits regarding ill-use of talent, firing people to make room for ex-WWE wrestlers and a total disregard for promoting what they have. The money was never there for home grown talent. Hence the reason they have tied this into the current storylines.

 

The fact is, he never took risks. He stayed in the comfort zone and now he's paying for it by not having any leverage in his negotiations for a new contract. TNA are in a position now, where there is a good chance that 2014 will see TNA be taping large chucks of TV in a 4 week period to fill months of TV. TNA may still be around, but financially they may not be able to keep the low six figure workers. And if that is the case (and only signing until after the new year), then he isn't in the best position. Tommy Dreamer and Carlito earns more money on the indies than AJ Styles and Bobby Roode, based off runs on TV years ago. If Bobby Roode and AJ Styles left TNA tomorrow, they aren't making the money Dreamer and Carlito are. They have no significant name value. And it would soon run out. Adding to the fact, AJ Styles is known throughout the business as the biggest mark in wrestling. If you think he doesn't want to be a famous pro wrestler, you're thinking of the wrong bloke. He's got his little action figures on his wall, and he's waxing lyrical about how he's desperate to play as himself in another Xbox game. He's got a Bret Hart size ego in a Bruce Hart style promotion.

 

That's besides the fact he's bashing them because he was told to in a kayfabe promo so it's not like he's been blasting them in a shoot either.

Which I wasn't referring to, hence my example of CM Punk's tweet. Any AJ Styles promo is laced with knocks at WWE and its wrestlers who have been far more successful than him.

 

On a positive note from last night, I thought Sting looked fantastic for his age. He's still got the t-shirt on, but he seems to have lost weight and that hair is coming on lovely. Like he's getting in shape for some big match next year or something.

Edited September 20, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[diamond_dust]

So what you are saying is he should have been happy where he was, regardless of the opportunities he could have been presented with, of which he had many to advance his own career many times over and provide a living for his family for the rest of his life.

 

No. I'm just saying you can't blame the guy for staying if he was able to provide for his family and his spot was secure. He had a nice contract with TNA and was one of their bigger names. In WWE he could work his way up yet would always be expendable, with TNA they're always more likely to want to keep him as they don't have the big names or the ease of creating them that WWE do. I never said he shouldn't have taken the opportunities when they came up, just that it's understandable why he didn't.

[Kyle]

It's almost as if WWE is sticking it back to the TNA originals. Now doubt a number of the TNA originals have had WWE offers throughout their TNA careers. When WWE wanted them most they always turned down WWE to stay loyal to TNA. Now TNA is having problems and this where these guys need WWE either for another option or to help with TNA negotiations. Yet, it has been made clear that WWE has no interest in anybody with the TNA label. They would rather focus on grooming who they have down in NXT putting these TNA originals in a bad spot.

 

On another note, I see there's been mention made of AJ Styles always making these WWE references. I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice this. It's like he has this insecurity or chip on his shoulder when it comes to WWE.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Kyle

[I Bent My Wookie]

I imagine I'm way off the mark, but could them wrestling in their T-Shirts be a way of marketing the merch to an audience to a different level to just wearing it in entrances and stuff? I only ask as I remember AJ was wearing his for a while during matches and he really isn't that out of shape either.