The King Of Swing Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Councils now threatening to evict people found to have been taking part in the riots, not much point really considering they will just be housed on some other sink estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted August 10, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I don't wish to discuss the sociological/political side of this any further to be honest, because as bobbins said, although there are some on here who can engage in constructive discussion there are also a number who fail to be able to. I will stand by the fact that to ignore the factors leading up to this situation is incredibly short-sighted and will only do more harm than good in the long term. Also, I think that most of you are aware of where I am coming from on this issue - even if you don't agree with me. As far as short-term solutions, which I have been asked about several times, I did post more than one suggestion. My main suggestion was to increase police numbers, which was done in London last night (not directly from my personal recommendation, I should add) and seemed to significantly quell the trouble there. Unfortunately other cities also experienced trouble - including Nottingham, where I live, where I witnessed hostility and vandalism from a number of youths. Again I will stress that I do not condone violence towards others or damage to others property and I was personally very angry at what I saw, and such blatant disregard for the safety of others. I understand that others are extremely angry also and that this anger will manifest in different ways and there will be many suggested solutions to quelling the trouble.  I also mentioned water cannons, however given the changing nature of the riots and the fact that few fires were set in London last night (which can be the dual purpose of a water cannon), and the fact that these are not large groups of people confined to one area, I now believe that this would not be of any help. I also strongly disagree with the use of baton rounds which can cause great injury and even fatalities, especially considering the young age of those involved.   I think you have spoken more sense than the majority on here, i'm not saying what your opposition said was always wrong, but i think that your points are completely valid and have struggled to disagree with the vast of your comments. Your underlined comment is 100% correct, its the next question the government must fully tackle (i think the answer is fairly obvious, and generally ignored), to understand how to avoid this happening again. Problem is, when the cuts start to really take hold, the pondering of reasons could be too little too late. Edited August 10, 2011 by Kaz Hayashi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maffew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thinking about other solutions what could help with the younger ones anyway. What about having victims of crime come into school to give a talk about how crime ruined their life plus maybe even school trip to a prison and have some of the prisoners talk to them and show them their future if they decide to take up a life of crime even if it only discourages a small percentage of the ones who may of been heading that way it would be worth it.  I had that at school. Worked for me, I didn't want a urine-covered knife thrust into me.  Nowadays I feel the lack of fear about prison/jail/police contributes in a small way to things like this. I have no basis for this other than speaking with some ex-school friends recently on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeg_&_The_Heads Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Councils now threatening to evict people found to have been taking part in the riots, not much point really considering they will just be housed on some other sink estate. Â How would that work the whole family or just the person doing it as it's hardily say a mothers or other family members fault if her 20 odd year old son/daughter went out looting if they were say under 16-18 they could be kept in but you can hardily confine a 20 year old to their room. Â Plus will they give them other housing or just make them homeless as that will hardly help the area with a few 100 more homeless people walking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted August 10, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 10, 2011 Councils now threatening to evict people found to have been taking part in the riots, not much point really considering they will just be housed on some other sink estate. Â Â How is this going to help anything? Â "Lets kick them on the street, that will anger them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Whiskey do you not think half the problem you have faced in this thread is you waded in straight away with the politics whilst Tottenham was still burning? That's not a dig by the way just a theory.  Most of the early posts were politicised one way or the other mate, it's not like people were talking solely of short-term to stop the riot. I just happened to come from a different angle that a lot of people disagreed with, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 How is this going to help anything? "Lets kick them on the street, that will anger them"  Oh I agree it's a frankly daft and counter productive threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeg_&_The_Heads Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Oh I agree it's a frankly daft and counter productive threat. Â Plus then they will really have nothing to lose and even the threat of prison won't matter as at least if they get sent down they will have a roof over their heads and a bed to sleep in so prison will be a step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 10, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 10, 2011 I will stand by the fact that to ignore the factors leading up to this situation is incredibly short-sighted and will only do more harm than good in the long term. I can't believe that there is anyone (sane) who wouldn't agree with that. As long as it isn't used to excuse behaviour or to excuse proper punishment. The solution short term, IMO, is to ensure tough punishments for those who are guilty to ensure that this sort of thing never looks like an easy option and to ensure they get support when they come out of prison. The ones who are desperate anyway. Fuck the people who had a decent life and threw it away for greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 And like I posted in most cases they will simply be dumped on another community/sink estate solving nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I will stand by the fact that to ignore the factors leading up to this situation is incredibly short-sighted and will only do more harm than good in the long term.  A point literally nobody has made. You're fighting yourself in this argument!  Bobbins:  You asked me a question in this thread before all the rioting kicked off again but understandably missed the response:  Seriously though, how can you post that and disagree with anything Whiskey or I have said, or accuse us of defending the rioters. That post is the core of my argument, and that's been clear from the first post to the last. You're too smart to buy PITCOS' strawman bollocks.  I'll try to explain, because you're a good lad who's just got really wound up here.  I disagree with statements like this  People only behave like scum when they're treated like scum (your words) but still talk about social ills because I'm trying to see this subject in a balanced way rather than black and white.  I don't believe either strictly in nature OR strictly in nurture. I know that how and where you grow up hugely informs your character, and yet I also know that there are plenty of young teenagers from Tottenham who WEREN'T rioting on Saturday night. Same background, but "not scum" to put it in the language of tabloids. I know people who came from rubbish inner-city schools and now leverage huge salaries and work at the highest levels of business whilst their school chums smoke cracks and go to jail.  Regardless of your circumstances, I believe every individual is personally responsible to society and that there is an unspoken (though possibly it should be codified) charter of social responsibility that parallels your human rights as it were. Things that you owe others as opposed to things that others owe you. And not burning down people's businesses would definitely be one of those responsibilities.  There's no excuse for what happened on Saturday. Perhaps a few of them were just caught up and followed the herd. But most of them weren't just rioting because they'd got a bum deal in life, they were rioting because they are absolute twats, and they deserve whatever punishment is meted out to them (within the parameters of the law, obviously). It's their schoolmates who didn't riot, and who have to continue to live in those areas that I reserve my sympathies for.  So, that's my philosophy. You might not like it, but I live my life by it and judge others by it. For the record, I've been pretty critical of the Lib Dems since they've been in power, without actually trying to present them as the second coming of Satan. Their policies in goverment don't represent by beliefs; however I voted for them so I have to accept the consequences of that. It's called democracy. Edited August 10, 2011 by Loki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) A point literally nobody has made. You're fighting yourself in this argument! Â I disagree with that. In fact, to say 'literally nobody' is just completely false. The number of times I read 'mindless violence', which infers that there is no reason or cause behind any of it as if it is just a completely random, unexpected outburst of violence. I'm not going into it again though, because I've already discussed it at great length. Edited August 10, 2011 by Whiskey1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Mike Castle Posted August 10, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 10, 2011 Plus will they give them other housing or just make them homeless as that will hardly help the area with a few 100 more homeless people walking around. Not if they give that housing to the current homeless who don't have criminal records for rioting. Â Was just discussing this with a friend, and considering I'm currently looking at being made homeless because my twat of a landlord decided paying the mortgage wasn't important, and has instead pissed off to America, and the council are just shrugging their shoulders at it because I have no physical disability, I've no issue with people who have committed a crime like that being kicked out so the house can go to someone much more worth, namely someone who hasn't tried destroying everything around them. Â Of course, logistics are harder when it comes to parents who have a 20 year old kid who was out doing the rioting, but in general, and in principal, I approve of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeg_&_The_Heads Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) I disagree with that. In fact, to say 'literally nobody' is just completely false. The number of times I read 'mindless violence', which infers that there is no reason or cause behind any of it as if it is just a completely random, unexpected outburst of violence. I'm not going into it again though, because I've already discussed it at great length. Â OK then for this point take out the people who have been hard done by would you agree the more privileged people involved (The Teacher the Uni Graduate ect ) who had very good lives committed mindless violence ect as they had no need to be angry about anything. Edited August 10, 2011 by Smeg_&_The_Heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThumpSquids Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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