Van Dammer Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Jack Wilshere should have gone, hes not a senior regular yet and needs the experience and England need his experience. Â He is a senior regular. I'ld say he's now one of the first names on the team sheet. No other U-21 player can say that. He's had a wealth of experience already, not least in the Champions League. Experience of 'tournaments' is a pretty poor excuse in my mind. The fact is he's head and shoulders above a lot of england young players because he's been taught that way from a very early age. Lansbury also looked a lot more creative, and both have come from the same youth set up. I can't see what Jack would have got out of going to this for. Â He's played, what, 2 competitive games for England? Hes no regular, I remember when Micah Richards was an England regular at 18/19 and now rarely ever features unless there's injuries, not to mention the upteen other England youth 'superstars' who make a break into the senior squad and then fall off the face of the earth. Im not saying that's going to happen but a kid his age needs as much experience as he can get and to turn his nose up to it (or be told hes not going by his club) is daft. He should have been there. He wasnt too tired to play in Arsenals pointless end of season run in and he wont be too tired to fly off to Arsenals pointless tour of Malaysia this summer. And if players are pulling out of tournaments because they are too tired then they need to consult the players on a winter break and atleast try it over a four year period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSybianRider Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 When Peter Taylor could be considered better than you, isn't it time to quit football? If the FA thought putting Pearce with Capello was a decent way of grooming him for the top job, they have been sorely mistaken. Shit overseas tactics has bred shit overseas tactics.  When will the FA learn that England play best with good old fashioned English tactics, harassing the middle of the park and feeding it to wingers, lest hitting the odd long ball that a burly striker can manufacture into something?  Christ, that exact tactic worked for Germany against us in the last world cup.  We are never a team of skill or technique, we will always, no matter the age of the side, be a team of passion and heart for the game. That has been lost since Sven took over, McClaren emulated him. Fabio is no better with Italian tactics of harsh defence and playing from that, Pearce has now had that bred into him.  I can't believe I'm saying this, but Redknapp may be the way forward for a successful English team.   What a laughably shit opinion you walking stereotype. No wonder you're police.   "Wenger's a cunt. He's bad for the English game, bad for English players. Can't be argued"   Do you think? It's not his fault he's had to bring in foreigners to play his desired brand of football. What was he meant to do, swerve Fabregas and stick with Steve Sidwell? And - with Wilshere, Lansbury, etc. - if he manages to engender (or at least be part of) a change in how England approach the game, he'll have done more than most for "the English game". Also worth pointing out that it's not his job to give a fuck about any international side, but you already know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denzel_maggiore Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing? Â Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also. Â England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilgore Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Wenger's a cunt. He's bad for the English game, bad for English players. Can't be argued  The ignorance is astounding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing? Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also.  England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wenger's a cunt. He's bad for the English game, bad for English players. Can't be argued  The ignorance is astounding  Explain to me how I'm wrong. My club's in the Second Division now and we've developed more players for the England team than Mr Packet of Sweets and a Cheeky Smile. If we can get players from Islington and Romford and Peckham, why the fuck can't he? If I'm ignorant, explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing? Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also.  England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 "Wenger's a cunt. He's bad for the English game, bad for English players. Can't be argued"Â Â Do you think? It's not his fault he's had to bring in foreigners to play his desired brand of football. What was he meant to do, swerve Fabregas and stick with Steve Sidwell? And - with Wilshere, Lansbury, etc. - if he manages to engender (or at least be part of) a change in how England approach the game, he'll have done more than most for "the English game". Also worth pointing out that it's not his job to give a fuck about any international side, but you already know that. Â Thing is, the FA allow the clubs to develop players unhindered. As such, they owe a duty of care to the FA to develop players for the England side. You're the Liverpool fan, aren't you lot just a bunch of commies? Surely you can see that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilgore Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Sergio Busquets could have played for Spain. Why didn't he? Because he played more than 40 matches at a high level and is already established in the national team. The EXACT same thing is true for Wilshere. Furthermore it wasn't Wenger's decision, he simply showed Jack the scientific evidence which suggested he was susceptible to injury and wasn't running at the level he had been earlier in the season. The EXACT same thing happened with Theo Walcott 2 years ago. He went though, played shit because he was nackered and Pearce is a moron. Got slagged off for it then proceded to start picking up niggling injuries that significantly stalled his development. Â The idea that other nations 'take these tournaments seriously' by playing their established players is bollocks. They take them seriously by installing coaches that know what they're doing and try to develop young players. I'm pretty sure Mesut Ozil is still young enough to qualify for this tournament. You really think he would have played if Germany were in it? Â It's also a very good point that Pearce ignored Wilshere throughout qualifying. If he isn't good enough at his job to pick a talent like that over Muamba or Mancienne than he should be fired for that alone. Â The idea that Arsene Wenger in any way harms English football is ignorant at best and bigoted at worst. Even if his sole contribution to English football were developing Ashley Cole Jack Wilshere then he's still achieved more than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I'm not convinced. Give me evidence. Ashley Cole was on his way out, saved by an injury to Sylvinho and his subsequent passport issues. He took the fucking shirt. And Jack Wilshere... Two players in fifteen years? Are you taking the piss? There's more Sheffield United-bred players than Arsenal in the England squad. FACT. Â And would that be Mesut Ozil of the 2009 Euro U-21 winning team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denzel_maggiore Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing? Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also.  England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilgore Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I'm not convinced. Give me evidence. Ashley Cole was on his way out, saved by an injury to Sylvinho and his subsequent passport issues. He took the fucking shirt. And Jack Wilshere... Two players in fifteen years? Are you taking the piss? There's more Sheffield United-bred players than Arsenal in the England squad. FACT. And would that be Mesut Ozil of the 2009 Euro U-21 winning team?  Are you actually dumb? Ozil played in the U21 team, impressed, then was promoted to the senior team. That's how it works.  2 out of the 11 current starters for England isn't bad. There are of course dozens and dozens of English footballers who have had very good careers and owe a lot to Arsene Wenger. The man absolutely loves English football. His primary concern is the football club he manages but please, I beg you, explain how he 'hurts' English football. Doing it without spouting nonsensical media cliches would be preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted June 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2011 I don't believe that Wenger or Arsenal, or any League club has a 'duty of care' to the international team. But, Wilshire and Carroll should have gone for one simple reason, and this is true especially in Wilshire's case, that the only reason they didn't was because of some behind the scenes club/PL shite going down that we aren't privy to. When Jacko was selected in the preliminary squad, Wenger was right away moaning himself greyer (as he does) and then, when the final squad was announced, surprise no fucking surprise...Jacko wasn't included. As far as I am aware, there was no public moaning from Kenny/LFC but it wouldn't surprise me if 'words were had.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing? Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also.  England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denzel_maggiore Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing? Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also.  England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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