UEFA U21 Championship Thread

[mikey]

Pre-season starts at the end of June nowadays. Championship sides will start next Monday. One of the Palace players told me he starts on the 27th. To continue the Arsenal/Wilshere angle, Arsenal's first pre-season friendly is in Malaysia on the 13th July. Last year, they started on the 6th July.

 

Look, I don't know why people continually ignore this. Stuart Pearce has been the most successful England under-21 coach since Dave Sexton's first crack at it. He went to one final and one semi-final and in each case, many felt that player-for-player, we were far less talented than our opponents. What he did have, especially in 2007, was graft. I don't look at this team and see graft. Had we had Carroll up front providing a platform and Wilshere's invention in midfield, it could have been different but this has not been a settled squad this time around. He had a shit tournament, the last two were decent. We've qualified for three in a row after the shit we put up with in the 90s. He's done well considering a) we don't give him the support he should have, b) all his best players are usually snatched up by the seniors and c) he doesn't have the luxury of picking large numbers of young players who play regularly in the Premier League.

 

Look, last year's under-17s are going to be the next lot to come through. Then we're going to start seeing whether the FA have truly done good work improving young players. Until we regularly provide the under-21 manager with hang-your-hat-on attacking talents, we're not going to excite. Until those players get regular top level football, we're not going to win it.

 

Are you actually dumb? Ozil played in the U21 team, impressed, then was promoted to the senior team. That's how it works.

 

2 out of the 11 current starters for England isn't bad. There are of course dozens and dozens of English footballers who have had very good careers and owe a lot to Arsene Wenger. The man absolutely loves English football. His primary concern is the football club he manages but please, I beg you, explain how he 'hurts' English football. Doing it without spouting nonsensical media cliches would be preferable.

 

Two years ago, the Germans realised they had a good bunch of players and went out to win it. They didn't qualify in 2007, they didn't qualify this time. They are now shifting focus to competing for Euro 2012 and the World Cup in 2014. We don't have those sorts of long-term views. However, even in this shit tournament, we've given a view of what could be a large chunk of our defence in the next European Championship, if Capello had even a shred of vision. If the Germans were there, they'd be creating another spine to their team. That's what they do. We don't.

 

Let's not be naive. Wenger brings in foreign players on cheap fees not because they're better but because they're cheaper. Now the foreign market is going sky high as the TV money abroad catches up to what it is here. As such, we've seen Mr Cheeky Smile is waning. You can't buy a Vieira for 3.5m or the equivalent now. When he goes out and signs Denilson or Nicklas Bendtner, I think these are the latest hate targets, he's taking spots away from players in the youth academy. He only cares about his club, sure, but the way things have gone, it's getting cheaper to get local English players in than to import these expensive failures from under-19 tournaments. It's in his interest to use local players. But he doesn't and it's because he looks for the worst all the time.

 

I don't believe that Wenger or Arsenal, or any League club has a 'duty of care' to the international team. But, Wilshire and Carroll should have gone for one simple reason, and this is true especially in Wilshire's case, that the only reason they didn't was because of some behind the scenes club/PL shite going down that we aren't privy to. When Jacko was selected in the preliminary squad, Wenger was right away moaning himself greyer (as he does) and then, when the final squad was announced, surprise no fucking surprise...Jacko wasn't included. As far as I am aware, there was no public moaning from Kenny/LFC but it wouldn't surprise me if 'words were had.'

 

Other countries take youth development seriously and every club takes it on as a personal goal to develop these players. I think the real problem is money. There's always got to be one single cash rich league where all the foreigners end up. Currently, it's our turn and with the Sky and foreign TV deals, it's going from strength-to-strength. Italy and Germany both had issues with their national teams when the leagues were overflowing with cash. This is why the model we're copying is Spain. They have shitloads of cash but all the top clubs still rely heavily on youth development.

[Van Dammer]

Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing?

 

Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also.

 

England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about

[denzel_maggiore]

You can say that about Wenger in regards to English players (and you make some good points) but when you weigh things from the other side then you got the likes of Man City & Chelsea snapping up English players to stop other clubs signing them and then wasting them anyway thus making them damaged goods.

 

Another thing that needs to be answered is the role of Trevor Brooking, what does he actually do?

[denzel_maggiore]

Mikey have you got a clue what your even typing?

 

Why should Wilshere be in the Under 21's? He is in the senior squad now so he either sticks with one or the other, the fact that he is even being mentioned for both shows how poor England are in both the seniors and the Under 21's in that they want to use the same player in both (of which he didn't even play many Under 21's games to begin with), which again Pearce is at fault at for not even recognising his talent when most in english football did way before he reached the arsenal first team. Same applies to Carroll too in that he is now seen as a senior player so why play him in the Under 21's also.

 

England lost because Stuart Pearce is an inept manager, with this group of players (the defence was worth about

[mikey]

You can say that about Wenger in regards to English players (and you make some good points) but when you weigh things from the other side then you got the likes of Man City & Chelsea snapping up English players to stop other clubs signing them and then wasting them anyway thus making them damaged goods.

 

Another thing that needs to be answered is the role of Trevor Brooking, what does he actually do?

 

Double-edged sword, for sure. And the FA have been running away from things like financial fairplay, which would force Chelsea and Man City to stop spending.

 

Trevor Brooking has spent years trying to put an infrastructure in place to improve the basic skills of future English players. He has been fighting a losing battle but, according to some, he has made significant gains by focusing on young children, with the idea that better basic skills in younger kids is why the continentals have always had better technique than us. Under him, international results have improved at all the age groups except at senior level, which is not his purview.

 

He reckons we have something in a few years. He rated the team that won the Euro U-17s tournament last year but he's always said we need a wider pool of players who can all be comfortable on the ball.

 

EDIT: Sir Trev recently said the following:

Earlier this year Brooking and the FA general secretary, Alex Horne, released a 25-point plan for producing better young players. Those proposals were a reaction to England's drab showing at the 2010 World Cup and were aimed at complementing the Future Game plan that the FA published last year.

 

Brooking, however, claims that such grand plans are being hampered by a lack of resources and cooperation. Until those are forthcoming, suggests Brooking, English successes, such as the triumph at last year's European Under-17 Championship, will remain few and far between. "We're all set to go, we just need the funding. It's a long-term issue that needs long-term investment, which is what happened in Germany 10 years ago. We're in that boat and have been talking about it for four years but we've got to get the buy-in from clubs and the funding."

[Teedy Kay]

When Peter Taylor could be considered better than you, isn't it time to quit football?

 

If the FA thought putting Pearce with Capello was a decent way of grooming him for the top job, they have been sorely mistaken. Shit overseas tactics has bred shit overseas tactics.

 

When will the FA learn that England play best with good old fashioned English tactics, harassing the middle of the park and feeding it to wingers, lest hitting the odd long ball that a burly striker can manufacture into something?

 

Christ, that exact tactic worked for Germany against us in the last world cup.

 

We are never a team of skill or technique, we will always, no matter the age of the side, be a team of passion and heart for the game. That has been lost since Sven took over, McClaren emulated him. Fabio is no better with Italian tactics of harsh defence and playing from that, Pearce has now had that bred into him.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Redknapp may be the way forward for a successful English team.

 

 

What a laughably shit opinion you walking stereotype. No wonder you're police.

 

Fergusson plays good honest British football and gets results in Europe, England at any level can do the same.

 

It's not steretypical, I accept differing forms of tactic have their pros and cons, but the English game is about pace, drive and passion. Something our national team has lacked since the reign of Sven.

 

And my ideals on football have nothing to do with my profession.

[kilgore]

Let's not be naive. Wenger brings in foreign players on cheap fees not because they're better but because they're cheaper. Now the foreign market is going sky high as the TV money abroad catches up to what it is here. As such, we've seen Mr Cheeky Smile is waning. You can't buy a Vieira for 3.5m or the equivalent now. When he goes out and signs Denilson or Nicklas Bendtner, I think these are the latest hate targets, he's taking spots away from players in the youth academy. He only cares about his club, sure, but the way things have gone, it's getting cheaper to get local English players in than to import these expensive failures from under-19 tournaments. It's in his interest to use local players. But he doesn't and it's because he looks for the worst all the time.

 

You honestly come across retarded here. Can't even begin to imagine the point you're trying to make. He looks for the worst all the time?

 

If an English player coming through our academy is good enough, they'll play for us. If not they can still go on to have a very good career having been developed at a first class academy. Not seeing the problem at all.

 

EDIT: The bit about Vieira is almost a valid point. It is much harder to get a gem for cheap as everyone now has extensive scouting networks. That said our 3 starting midfielders cost us less than 3.5 mil in transfer fees so Arsene is doing something right. Obviously we don't have anyone AS good as Vieira but, neither does anyone else. City have spent millions and even bought the actual Patrick Vieira but still don't have anyone as good as him in midfield.

[bobbins]

Arsenal's record at producing English players over the last five years is better than West Ham's, and it's probably going to continue that way.

[mikey]

Arsenal's record at producing English players over the last five years is better than West Ham's, and it's probably going to continue that way.

 

It's not about West Ham vs. Arsenal, it's about how over fifteen years in charge at Arsenal and despite having some decent youngsters at his disposal in that time, Wenger has talked down English players for both playing and personal reasons, sometimes in quite bogus fashion. As I said about not being able to sign a Vieira, we're now competing with and getting outbid by other teams in London for young players. We were ahead of the curve, now everybody else has caught up. It doesn't help that the demographics of our main catchment area - East London and Essex - have changed and the quality of the players coming into the academy hasn't been as good. Our great England hopes were Tomkins and Spence and while the former played for the under-21s, very well in 2009 tbh, he hasn't kicked on in the way we've hoped.