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[Egg Shen]

But the X Factor is great

[Noah Southworth]

But the X Factor is great

It's certainly a kracker.

[Jonny Vegas]

The thing about Palhares for me as just a fan is that it's really disappointing because he's a bit of a freak talent. If he was mentally all there I think he could be a legit player. He'd always be at a disadvantage in some ways with his short frame but that actually benefits his grappling. It just seems like he's such a loose cannon mentally. He has these lapses where his brain seems to check out - the aforementioned Dan Miller fight where he jumped on the cage while the fight was still underway, the Marquardt fight where he started talking to the ref and got TKO'd, the holding onto leg locks. He's just not at the races sometimes.

 

I love watching him fight because, as much as I love the well-roundedness of the likes of a Jon Jones or Anthony Pettis, I've always had a soft spot for the 'specialists' like Palhares (leg locks), Rousey (armbars), Cro Cop (headkicks). The fighters with that one weapon that's so lethal that opponents know it's coming but can do very little to stop it. There's something really savage about Palhares' grappling style that I love. It's unlike any other MMA grappler's style in the sport because it's so physical and has that feeling it can end at any time. Palhares' leg lock is the grapplers equivalent of a Mike Tyson KO punch in that way. You're just waiting for something brutal to happen.

 

But he's continually treading that line with the holding on. It might only be a second or two he's holding on but that can be all it takes with a leg lock. Kneebars and heel hooks are maybe the most dangerous and potentially career-altering/ending submissions in the sport. And Palhares is so experienced with them that he knows when he's got it locked in. He'll have felt Fitch tapping like fuck for sure.

 

I actually don't think Palhares held on too long really against Fitch. It's not like he held on after the ref touched them or broke any rules. He doesn't have to let go before the ref intervenes. But come on, man. Michael Flatley taps less than Fitch tapped. At that point Palhares could've let go and there's no way Fitch was going to deny he tapped and carry on. There's no way the ref would've missed the tap either. Palhares knew full well Fitch was done. So I get the 'you have to wait for the ref to step in'. Totally. But with heel hooks and shit...damn, you'd like to see a fighter let go ASAP.

 

The Pierce case looked pretty bad at the time to me. As did the Tomasz Drwal one. They were the two worst from what I remember. Videos like the above are fine in hindsight but at the time you're making a split second judgement and it seemed like there was pretty much unanimous agreement that the Pierce sub was held a bit too long.

 

I do think some of this is just because, with Palhares' track record, he's more under the microscope. People are kind of going into his fights half expecting him to do it now. But I just think he could let go a bit quicker. Once you feel a guy tapping like that, and this wasn't some phantom tap, Fitch was rapid-fire spanking that arse - just let go. Refs need to all over it as well though. If you're a referee in a Palhares fight and you see him even touching the opponents leg, be alert as fuck, get in position and get ready to jump in of need be.

I agree with a lot of your points Wand and I agree that yes in an ideal world you would like to see fighters stop when they know someone is tapping heavily and the fight is over but I also stand by my comment that stuff like that is a courtesy not a rule...does it make him a bit of a twat for not being more sportsmanlike and letting go...possibly. Does it make him a rule breaker and make him deserving of his reputation or the termination of his contract? Absolutely not.

 

Only thing I will say regarding your comments is that things are almost always judged better in hindsight than at the time and in the heat of the moment. If people said to me that Palhares is intentionally trying to hurt people and holding on for far longer than is necessary and then watched that video and read up on comments from the fighters on the receiving end like Drwal and then said ''you know what, fair enough'', then I would see that as a much fairer evaluation of the facts than simply labelling as something that I feel there's plenty of evidence he is not.

 

Too many people ready to jump on the bandwagon and cry foul. How many of those people lambasting Palhares for holding on to a leg submission for 1 second after a referee intervenes made such a fuss about Dan Henderson's very late and strike on a clearly unconscious opponent in Michael Bisping, or when Henderson made the following quote on being asked about hitting Bisping once he knew he was unconscious...

 

''Normally, I’m not that way in fights. I know if a guy is out, and I tend to stop. I knew I [knocked] him out. I think that last one was just to shut him up a little bit.”

 

A leg submission is not going to kill somebody, a full force strike from a trainer fighter to an unconscious person who's head is touching the ground absolutely can.

[Egg Shen]

bit sad when it's New Year's Eve tomorrow and there's very little buzz for the shows going on there, makes me pine for the good old days where 3 massive shows would be going down on New Year's Eve featuring some of the best fights in MMA history as well as some the most insane freak show bouts imaginable.

 

Well anyway, Inoki's keeping the dream alive by hosting his annual Bom-Ba-Ye show. On paper's there's not much to get excited about other than the Crocop/Ishii fight, Aoki's on there but seems to be fighting a guy he'll whipe out in a minute or so. The freak show element is covered with Barnett/Suzukawa though, Barnett has been hyped for years, but he's too heavy to get any love in the States, and Suzukawa is a former sumo champ who's 1-2 in MMA, he's gonna get battered...Japanese matchmaking, best in the world.

 

Pretty sure there'd be some weird stories behind the other fights going down, but info is sparse. I'll avoid spoilers though and try catch the few fights that interest me, for old times sake

 

The other show going down is in DEEP.

 

 

IGF Championship Match
Mirko Filipovic (234.79) vs. Satoshi Ishii (236.77)

Chris Barnett (334.66) vs. Shinichi Suzukawa (220.9)
Shinya Aoki (154.65) vs. Yuki Yamamoto (154.98)
Yusuke Kawaguchi (n/a) vs. Justin Willis (289.79)
Kiuma Kunioku (152.44) vs. Ramazan Esenbaev (154.98)

Road to Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2014 Challenge Tournament Semifinals
Tsuyoshi Kurihara (203.81) vs. Ryo Sakai (235.78)
Takaaki Oban (254.96) vs. Yusuke Masuda (222.66)

Road to Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2014 Challenge Tournament Reserve Match
Shuji Morikawa (243.5) vs. Katsuyoshi Sasaki (193.45)

[Egg Shen]

well annoyingly i saw the results early on New Year's Day but i still saw the highlights of the main fights...here's Crocop/Ishii 2 (spoilers below the vid)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPFHr5gH140

 

 

 

Crocop via headkick!!!! from what i can gather that's the first time he's effectively ended a fight via high kick since 2006! it was becoming a bit of a myth at this point.

 

oh, and Shinya Aoki finished his fight with a twister

[Noah Southworth]

I really wanted to see Ishii in the UFC but if you're losing to Cro Crop, then staying away is for the best.

[wandshogun09]

Aoki flipped him the middle fingers after as well.

 

Only ended up watching the Cro Cop and Aoki fights in the end because I also saw spoilers. Seeing Cro Cop bust out the headkick finish again was sweet. It still wasn't the same though. That headkick has lost so much of its snap. That's why he hadn't had a headkick stoppage since 2006. It's not because he hasn't tried, he's thrown it in most of his fights over the last few years, it's just nowhere near as effective as it used to be. Probably a combination of him not having as much speed on it, plus all the knee injuries. Even this stoppage, it started with the headkick but it wasn't a real headkick KO. He landed it, Ishii stumbled but didn't even drop, then Mirko pounced with punches to finish him.

 

Still, always happy to see Cro Cop win. Looks like he's on/back on the juice as well. He looked more shredded than I've seen him in years. His back looked massive as well.

[Noah Southworth]

I think what killed Cro Cop’s head kicks was the Gonzaga fight. Not the loss itself but how badly his right ankle twisted at the end; that was a nasty looking thing. The injury, and also the tentativeness when coming back, took everything out of those kicks. Cro Cop was never the same after his biggest weapons were effectively taken away from him. Not to mention the move to a drug test environment, which greatly affected a lot of PRIDE fighters.

[Egg Shen]

when i first saw it my thoughts were that Crocop is probably back on the gas, he looks in tremendous shape.

 

Post-UFC he's done alright for himself though. Crocop has dropped down a level and it's kept him semi-relevant, he'll always have the name value so if he's picking fights carefully there's no reason why he can't still make some nice cheddar. There was a rumor going around that he's in conversation with a major MMA promotion, and i wouldn't be surprised if Bellator went in for him.

 

Still, it was pretty sweet to see him land the headkick.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah he was gun-shy as fuck post-Gonzaga. I think that mentally ruined him and then over the next couple of years he had a bunch of injuries that added to the problem.

 

I always wondered about the way his ankle folded under him when Gonzaga knocked him out. It looked horrible and I was sure he must've completely fucked his ankle up. But he walked out of the cage as I remember and was it ever reported what the extent of the damage was to his ankle? He was back in the cage that September fighting Cheick Kongo so maybe it wasn't as bad as it looked. That was only five months after the Gonzaga fight in the April. So he was probably back in a full camp by around June. Looking at how badly the ankle was twisted, that doesn't seem possible does it. Either it was nowhere near as bad as it looked, or Cro Cop just gutted through and went into another camp with a fucked ankle. I'm thinking probably the latter unfortunately.

[Noah Southworth]

He underwent surgery but I don’t remember the extent of it. Regardless, he came back too soon, which couldn’t have helped.

[Egg Shen]

You think Crocop was one someone who probably spent the majority of his Japanese career on the gas?

 

I remember all the theories popping up when the Pride guys pretty much all bombed when they first entered the UFC, few of them looked the same. Over time guys adjusted but Crocop (despite a few good wins) never really looked the same in the UFC. I know most people put it down to the Gonzaga defeat, but is there a chance that he simply wasnt the same guy from the start? I know he won his debut, but lets be honest, Eddie Sanchez was petrified.

[JNLister]

Team Fighting Championship is going on (taped, on-demand) PPV in the US. Think I've posted it here before, but it's done in Eastern Europe away from any regulation and is two teams of five all fighting at the same time, with elimination rules but no tagging. And yes, that does mean getting to the point of 3 or 4 people against one, which doesn't usually last long.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46BwqiXtMaU

Edited January 3, 2015 by JNLister

[Noah Southworth]

You think Crocop was one someone who probably spent the majority of his Japanese career on the gas?

 

I remember all the theories popping up when the Pride guys pretty much all bombed when they first entered the UFC, few of them looked the same. Over time guys adjusted but Crocop (despite a few good wins) never really looked the same in the UFC. I know most people put it down to the Gonzaga defeat, but is there a chance that he simply wasnt the same guy from the start? I know he won his debut, but lets be honest, Eddie Sanchez was petrified.

Considering PRIDE didn’t test for steroids or almost anything at all, it’s a fair bet that most if not all the PRIDE guys were on something. Why shouldn’t they have been where there was nothing to stop them and the odds were good that the guy across the ring was going to be taking something as well? The only PRIDE guy who didn’t look like a completely different fighter, both cosmetically and otherwise, upon competing in a drug tested environment was Quinton Jackson, and that alone is a good indication of just how much drug use was rampant in PRIDE and what kind of difference it made.

[Egg Shen]

yeh it's likely, but no one ever talks about that with regards to Crocop, the downfall always seems to be blamed on the Gonzaga loss, maybe it wasn't is what im saying...though it surely didnt help.