MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[KingOfMetal]

I've read McCarthy's book. Its a good read up until he leaves the UFC and then he pretty much ends it suddenly, but its well worth checking out

[The Cum Doctor]

Should have a review of WEC 7 done for tomorrow. Not gonna say anything about the fights so far, but the venue is outdoors, and pure reminds me of the CZW Tourney of Death shows. Except people have actually come along to watch this.

[jimufctna24]

I've never been a big fan of Frank but I have to admit, I enjoyed the shit out of that 1 minute 48 seconds. Frank did 'cocky bastard' better than maybe anyone in MMA. The cigar just added to it.

 

I'd love to have seen Dana vs Coker.

That is what I mean by selling yourself as a fighter.

 

Frank was not OTT like Chael has been accused of being at times. He was cocky, but he was always serious/real enough to not divulge into making his fights seem too WWE, and that is why his fights sold so well on Showtime and in San Jose. Tom Lawlor for example is harmless and makes people laugh, but he does not really promote himself and the fight he is going into. There was always a productive point with Frank.

 

Like his friend BJ Penn, he just knows how to promote himself. Love or hate Frank you always had a opinion and every fight of his Strikeforce career people cared. MMA needs more characters like him.

 

I will give my opinion of him as a fighter and a human being when I review his book. You can probably tell with my man-crush on him, it will be mainly positive.

Edited February 6, 2013 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

It doesnt seem like Dana's hatred towards him will ever lift though based on his comments regarding Frank last weekend.

 

Shamrock's getting involved with Spike MMA and Bellator Jim so the man-crush can continue.

[jimufctna24]

Yeah I heard, mark me down for watching Bellator's reality show. As much as I am enjoying TUF, MMA needed a new take on reality TV.

 

Frank deserves his place in the UFC Hall Of Fame, but as stated I doubt Dana will ever let him in. I am just reaching the point of Frank's book where he is going to talk about Dana and the Strikeforce merge. Should be a entertaining read.

[Groovee]

I've been enjoying the DVD set of TUF Live - Team Faber vs Team Cruz. Didn't see it first time around, there's bloody good scraps on it! Nice surprise in the post

Edited February 6, 2013 by Groovee

[wandshogun09]

Welcome Groovee one.

 

Speaking of DVDs, my girlfriend got me UFC Best of 2011 and I've been watching it the last few days. It really was, for me, the best year in UFC to date. The FOX deal, the Strikeforce buyout, WEC guys coming in, attendance records shattered with the Toronto show, hugely successful return to Brazil, the rise of Jones, Diaz and Hendo returning.

 

That's before we even get to the fights. Which were fucking awesome. Right on the very first day of 2011 you had the incredible Edgar vs Maynard 2 war, and that set the tone. I doubt there's been another year with so many amazing fights. From Aldo vs Hominick to Cruz vs Faber 2 to Nick Diaz vs Penn to Nate Diaz vs Cowboy to Edgar vs Maynard 2 and 3 to Hendo vs Shogun. I could rattle off 20 more.

 

The DVD could have easily been a 5 disc set with no filler. So obviously there are some omissions but they have a fantastic selection of fights. The main feature is cool as well, going through weight class by weight class.

 

Well worth getting.

[jimufctna24]

 

Finally finished Frank's book.

 

If it is not better than BJ Penn's book, it is on par with it. It is my favorite MMA autobiography to date.

 

Frank childhood and family issues are almost as interesting to me as his fighting career. His childhood is a complete mess and he pulls no punches on himself. There were many times I was shocked with what I read. The dots are joined with the Shamrock family and Frank tells his side of the story about why him, Ken and Bob went their separate ways. It is at times a bit murky and lacks detail, but he can only tell you what actually happened or what he recalls. He does piss on Ken more than Bob, with Ken you get the feeling he respects him in some ways, but does not really like him. His personal life is also told well, he usually sees himself in the right but there are instances were he admits he is wrong, like the split from AKA.

 

The Pancrase fights are covered well, he does skim over his last two fights there, but other than it is told really well. From there he tells you about his UFC career and his evolution into the best fighter of the 90's. There is a real science to everything he did back then it seems, he is a bright guy and is not afraid to express it. Frank at this point was the most complete fighter in the sport and beat the best of his time. He also recognized the aspect of cardio more rationally than anyone in MMA before, for me that trumps Mark Coleman's GnP as a revalutionary of the sport as it must have required more intellect and thought to evolve cardio.

 

He does leave little bits out, like a fight he had in Japan before fighting Tito and makes a few mistakes like saying he beat Elvis when it was called a draw, but these are minor flaws you can overlook. He also covers his ill fated attempt at acting, but never concludes "I was not good enough"

 

He gives a excellent background to his feud with Phil Baroni and pulls no punches with Jared Shaw and Josh Thomson. The fights in Strikeforce are the highlight of the book, he covers them with detail and from his own personal view. He always has a method for his madness. People will accuse him of making excuses as he always sees himself as losing the fight, not the guy beating him. The Renzo fight shines through with his take on that. He does tend to have a few snarky comments about most people he fought, even if he likes them personally.

 

The Strikeforce merger maybe effected him more than anyone, he is honest about a rumor I heard years back about his pot smoking. His battle with the booze is told candidly. His feud with the UFC he paints it as a battle about how to present MMA, Frank has his views and Dana has his. His view of Dana being a bully is taken down a bit from the video I posted the previous page. He does not clarify if he did that after Dana said something about him or not. Dana is painted as a knucklehead boxing guy who Frank underestimated from a business stand-point.

 

All in all, I highly recommend this to anyone on here, if you love him or hate him, you will find something to entertain you.

Edited February 7, 2013 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

I think I'll get that this week and Big John's book.

 

Like I said, I've never been a huge fan of Frank but there's very few successful MMA fighters whose book I wouldn't buy. Especially the pioneers. I bought Tito's book and I'm less of a fan of him.

 

I've always said Frank deserves a spot in the UFC HOF. He won't get it and I'm not even sure he wants it but he deserves a place. Not only was he a great fighter and charismatic personality, he was way ahead of his time when it came to intelligently training for MMA. He was one of the first to seriously cross-train and one of the first to emphasise the importance of proper cardio training.

 

The biggest regret I have with Frank is him walking away in his prime when he did. After the Tito fight he was the man. I always wished he'd stuck around to fight Dan Henderson and Vitor Belfort inthe UFC. And of course, the big dream fight with Sakuraba. If that had happened between 97-99 I think we'd have had an all-time classic which people would be still talking about.

[The Natural]

Welcome Groovee one.

 

Speaking of DVDs, my girlfriend got me UFC Best of 2011 and I've been watching it the last few days. It really was, for me, the best year in UFC to date. The FOX deal, the Strikeforce buyout, WEC guys coming in, attendance records shattered with the Toronto show, hugely successful return to Brazil, the rise of Jones, Diaz and Hendo returning.

 

That's before we even get to the fights. Which were fucking awesome. Right on the very first day of 2011 you had the incredible Edgar vs Maynard 2 war, and that set the tone. I doubt there's been another year with so many amazing fights. From Aldo vs Hominick to Cruz vs Faber 2 to Nick Diaz vs Penn to Nate Diaz vs Cowboy to Edgar vs Maynard 2 and 3 to Hendo vs Shogun. I could rattle off 20 more.

 

The DVD could have easily been a 5 disc set with no filler. So obviously there are some omissions but they have a fantastic selection of fights. The main feature is cool as well, going through weight class by weight class.

 

Well worth getting.

 

Real shame the Best of 2011 dropped the 2009-2010 format which was much better. On those you had short pieces on key moments in the year and more full fights. It's an added shame because 2011 was the UFC's best ever year.

 

I'm going to re-read the posts on MMA autobiographies. Only one I've read was Randy Couture's first autobiography, a great read. I had a flick through Chuck Liddell's at Waterstones the other day but didn't buy it as I have a lot of books still to read. Didn't know Frank had one out.

Edited February 7, 2013 by The Natural

[wandshogun09]

Yeah I have to say I preferred the old Best Of format. I've only got Best Of 2007 and 2011 (probably my 2 favourite years in the UFC personally) so I wondered when they dropped the old format. Still an enjoyable watch though.

 

I do think the Best Ofs should be at least 3 discs though. I understand their fight selections but it would be nice to get some deserving fights with 'lesser names' on these comps.

 

For 2011 for example, a fight like Rousimar Palhares vs Dan Miller from UFC 134 or Renan Barao vs Brad Pickett from 138. Even Diego Sanchez vs Martin Kampmann didn't make it. And none of these 3 fights were even touched on in clipped form in the main feature.

 

So I get why they put the bigger fights on there but it would be nice to see some lesser hyped ones. A 3rd disc would allow for that.

[The Natural]

Yeah I have to say I preferred the old Best Of format. I've only got Best Of 2007 and 2011 (probably my 2 favourite years in the UFC personally) so I wondered when they dropped the old format. Still an enjoyable watch though.

 

I own 2009-2011. I've a feeling the format change might be to stop people waiting for this and buy the event DVD's. UFC really fucked up with the change for 2011 as it was a vintage year. Hope the outcry will mean they go back to the original format. No chance of it happening but a 2011 redo would be welcome.

Edited February 7, 2013 by The Natural

[jimufctna24]

The biggest regret I have with Frank is him walking away in his prime when he did. After the Tito fight he was the man. I always wished he'd stuck around to fight Dan Henderson and Vitor Belfort inthe UFC. And of course, the big dream fight with Sakuraba. If that had happened between 97-99 I think we'd have had an all-time classic which people would be still talking about.

I think most would agree on that. Pride would have been up his street with their presentation and he loved Japanese culture. I know they low-balled him on a offer, but he still should have gone there eventually.

 

I always felt if he would have stayed in the UFC he should have gone to 185lbs, as much as he beat Tito in 1999, it is a bit like Brandon Vera beating UFC heavies in 2005/2006, the division was not going to evolve beyond his skill level, but size wise it was about to. As soon as Tito became more seasoned and Liddel and Couture turned up he would have been overmatched size wise and his skill level would not be enough. He even admits this himself.

 

In many ways I think he was perfect for his time in the UFC, and even more perfect as a special attraction in Strikeforce.

[Carbomb]

Just read jimufctna's post on Genki. Great read, thanks for the recommendation.

[wandshogun09]

For sure he'd have had to drop down. The Hendo fight could still have happened though at 185. Hendo was lighter back then and won the 185lb UFC tournament the year before Frank beat Tito. I can't recall what Vitor was doing/weighing around then.

 

Frank did have a grappling match with Hendo around this time for a show called The Contenders or something. Frank won with a heel hook. I think it's on Youtube.

 

Ideally if I had my way (and a time machine) we'd have got Frank vs Sakuraba in 97/98 on the early Pride shows. Frank vs Hendo and Vitor in 98ish in the UFC after Hendo's tournament win and Vitor smashed Wand.

 

Frank vs Hendo could have happened in Pride as well actually from 99 onwards. Frank vs Wandy could have been awesome around that time as well.