MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[jimufctna24]

If it that had focused on someone like recent retiree Dan Severn as the subject, I suspect it would have given a much more positive and professional impression of MMA, but would have been a far more dull documentary as a whole (obviously bar the suplexes, 'tasche and high-waist-banded-budgie-smugglers that the Beast would bring to the table). I don't enjoy it as much as Like Water, just can't shake the impact, which I guess is why I think its a more affecting documentary despite its negative impact on the sport. I will most definitely be following your sound advice and not watching it when I need cheering up!

Very good points.

 

I can agree with it does have more of an impact than Like Water, as it tackles a much more serious issues. No one could call it dull and I can appreciate it, Kerr comes across as a troubled yet decent human being.

[deathrey]

You like MMA's Joe Pesci, deathrey? Have you seen him post-pasta?

 

Whilst not my type, he still not an ugly man! He's hardly in Big Foot Silva territory

 

There is a four letter word beginning with 'C' which often springs to mind when I see Mir, cute isn't it though.

 

I do actually agree with you, the other four letter word describes Mir well but it doesn't change the fact that he hasn't been tickled with ugly stick.

[deathrey]

 

And I thought you were okay deathrey

 

You love me really!

[jimufctna24]

I will let you of as you have Babulu as your profile pic

 

For Wand's viewing pleasure, and that pic is more than flattering for his mid 2006 erm prime.

 

Edited January 8, 2013 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

the 2012 version of Mir didn't look too far off his 2006 form.

[wandshogun09]

Mir looks about ready for a cesarean in that photo.

 

I do actually agree with you, the other four letter word describes Mir well but it doesn't change the fact that he hasn't been tickled with ugly stick.

 

I just asked my girlfriend if she thinks Mir's been tickled with the ugly stick or not. Her reply? Word for word;

 

"Well put it this way, I'd let him tickle me with HIS ugly stick"

 

Yeah, I think I'm calling this engagement shit off.

[deathrey]

Hahaha! Your girlfriend is a funny lady, and I told you

[jimufctna24]

Dana dictatorship

 

 

Before I start I can assure you this will not be a boring stats and PPV buys analysis.

 

Since 2007 some 6 years back MMA has had the UFC on top. Before I would say mid-2006 from a business standpoint every fighter in the sport had a viable option to turn down Dana and go to Japan, or the other way around.

 

It was in many ways a fighters market, this continued into 2006 as other talent got work on Strikeforce shows with the California MMA bill past. Other companies sadly mostly run by incompetent cowboys cropped up and fighters could make a decent buck. It was a good time to be a fighter and in many ways a fan. One thing during that period that myself and others said often was "would it not be great if we got all the fighters under one roof" it was at the time a pipe dream. I never thought I would get that wish and in many ways regret it.

 

As the years went on the cowboy promotions came and went, and sadly for the fighters the UFC was the only safe option. Only two promotions I felt were run well outside the UFC, being Strikeforce and the Zuffa owned WEC. Both are know sadly gone and I think in the case of both it is unnecessary and a shame.

 

Dana can not be blamed for other promotions faults. Affliction, WFA, IFL, Bodog and Elite XC were run by cowboys and money marks, they were not run as a business more of pastime in the case of Affliction and Elite XC, the other three my knowledge is sketchy of.

 

Scott Coker survived this, even with the Cali boom down, he managed to run a profitable promotion with local drawing cards Frank Shamrock and Cung Le. He did not get ideas above his station and tried new ideas like women's MMA and doing sensible catch-weight fights (Frank vs Diaz, Shields vs Lawler) he never really did anything stupid.

 

He picked the NBC Elite XC deal and for a while he did do well. Somewhere though the wheels must have fallen of with the parent company advising a sale in 2011, under Zuffa and Showtime as we know the promotion wilted and is now retiring on Saturday. There really has not been a alternative to the UFC in 2 years. Unless you count Bellator, which I do not as it does not have many big names to draw my interest in the way Strikeforce and Pride did.

 

It was Rampage Jackson on a train with Helwani who summed it up, stating that the UFC have oversaturated and overexposed itself. On paper the idea of growth and a tyranny of the fighters under one roof sounds great for fans, in practice not so much. This is where Dana is at fault.

 

Dana will point to NFL, Premier League Football and the NBA or whatever sport that has all the talent in that field, but they have off-seasons and are sports with a lot of different variables. MMA has no off-season and despite it being the best thing to ever happen to the sport, it comes with serious weaknesses.

 

The production, the commentary and the way MMA is presented will not be to everyone's taste. And the way Dana has expanded in the last few years has hurt the sport. Its like if you ate a cupcake once a week and its a treat, if you ate one a day the appeal would fade away, its a balance Dana has yet to grasp hurting his profit margins (he is a great business man though)

 

The FOX deal was good growth, putting on the amount of PPV's and employing the amount of fighters is not. People will argue at least the UFC is around to employ talent, but I would wager if Dana took only a certain amount of fighters there would be enough talent left for a new promotion to form, with a new TV deal and a new way of presenting MMA. Not to say that would not be run by cowboys, but we could hope. Bellator have taken mainly scraps thanks to the landscape despite their new TV deal.

 

Dana will never see this, but if he relaxed a bit it would help MMA and his company as a whole. Its the whole Pepsi/Coke thing, the product would have more quality if the competition was there. Dana had to claw to survive with Pride and although he works harder now, its only because he has expanded more than he should.

 

Another thing Dana will forget is how good he looks in comparison, it was not Coker's fault but remember the Strikeforce brawl? Dana and the UFC looked like saints after that. Elite XC bumbling with Kimbo? Dana looked like a honest man (he is to a certain degree if I am fair)

 

He could even keep the FOX deal, the fighters could bargain and would not be trapped, ideally everyone would win. I doubt this day will come though, Dana I can see will push and push for more and more. I admire his ambition, but I think he is going about it wrong.

 

If only Pride and the Yakuza had not been rumbled.

[jimufctna24]

The Changing Face Of MMA

 

I was reading the other day how the Olympics made the country that little bit more multi-cultural. It made me remember back in 2007 and 2008 that MMA was viewed as a sport mainly followed by white rednecks. The theory was that as it was a bloodsport (I hate that term) it appealed to the stereotypical southern hick, you know the "I love my guns" and "God bless America" types. I never really thought about it that way. This was a common assumption made on other MMA forums about their own fanbase. Bob Arum brought up this stereotype in 2009 deeming MMA fans "skinheads"

 

I think things have changed over the past few years. Watching TUF the other day despite the odd bad egg, it seems fighters are much more socially accepted. Jon Jones whatever is said about him is a well spoken man, he reminds me a lot of Michael Jordan for some reason and not just because they both have/had amazing talent. He fits his NIKE sponsorship perfectly with his immense talent and serious approach to the sport. GSP is another fighter who seems to come across more as a sports star rather than a "Cagefighter" This was a trend that I feel Frank Shamrock started to try and steer the image away from "barfighters" like Tank Abbott", Jones and GSP are perfecting this trend.

 

The Junie Browning types seem to be fading away and the fans I meet about are usually decent enough. It is not really a class thing, I am working class myself, its just certain interests attract certain audiences. The "just bleed" stereotype I think is a dying breed, I am not sure MMA will grow out of being a fringe sport but I think as it grows so will its audience.

 

The past few years the fighters have grown less gimmicky (its debatable if that is good or bad) and more like real sports stars. Jon Jones, GSP and Cain are all 3 men from different countries and different races and no one bats a eyelid, compare that to 2008 when Rashad Evans was showered with racist slurs when he knocked out Chuck Liddel. It was also debated that Rampage got a frosty reception when he beat Liddel partially due to his race.

 

I have written a lot how I long for previous days in MMA in this thread, but this is one change I welcome greatly.

 

Would enjoy any other thoughts on this subject.

Edited January 25, 2013 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

Two good posts there. I missed the Dana one first time around.

 

I've never even really thought about race in MMA. It's never really seemed like much of an issue at all. Good fighters are good fighters and I think most MMA fans feel the same. I might have been totally oblivious at the time but I always thought Rampage getting so many boos was more because Chuck was so popular and Rampage was relatively new to the US fanbase. Also might have been partly that the fight ended so quick after all the hype. I always thought Rashad getting boos were for similar reasons. KOing Chuck and being perceived as cocky.

 

I'm not saying there wasn't elements of racism, I just didn't pick up on it. I've never heard anything about Rashad getting racial slurs hurled at him after the Chuck KO. That's low if it's true.

Edited January 25, 2013 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

I'm not saying there wasn't elements of racism, I just didn't pick up on it. I've never heard anything about Rashad getting racial slurs hurled at him after the Chuck KO. That's low if it's true.

Neither did I until the Rashad fight.

 

It is sadly true, Sherdog reporters were cage side and said the atmosphere was dangerous after Rashad won, and alluded to fans using all sorts of bigoted language. The location of the fight (Atlanta) would have not helped. The Rampage thing was just a theory people through out, I think the reasons you said are the probable causes.

 

Like I said though, I honestly believe MMA's fanbase has changed a bit in recent times as its grown a bit more mainstream and into a sport. The sort of fans who were stereotyped to behave in such a way I think have faded away.

[wandshogun09]

I'd never heard that. Arseholes.

 

Racism is always fucked up. My long term ex was half Korean (still is as far as I know ) and it's amazing how people you think are sound can turn out to be cunts. I had 2 family members and a friend I haven't spoken to in about 7 years stemming from fucked up racist stuff they said about, and in one case directly to my ex. They later tried to say it was a joke but I cut all ties. I can't believe there's still these type of attitudes.

 

Back on topic, MMA is defo more mainstream and accepted. I think TUF 1 went a bit of a way helping in that regard. Of course there was drunken stupidity but you also had intelligent guys like Florian, Bonnar etc who went against the fighter stereotype. Plus Randy and Chuck as coaches, who were the perfect choice to represent the sport to a new audience. Of course since then the big sponsorships with Budweiser, Nike and the FOX deal show how far the sport has come.

 

From Tank Abbott to Jon Jones in 15 years is quite the evolution.

[jimufctna24]

I will give your neck of the woods its due Wand, when I went to Birmingham for UFC 138 the crowd there were very welcoming and friendly.

 

Totally in contrast to the crowds that used to turn up for certain MMA events over here in years back. There was meant to be loads of trouble at a Manchester show in 2006, the one where Tyson reffed and Overeem was on. I think Din Thomas was in some sort of tournament also.

 

The Cage Rage crowds I have some stories about also. Not just to do with racism, but in generally the audience has changed. I agree that TUF 1 did help no doubt with some of the fighters on there.

Edited January 25, 2013 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

I will give your neck of the woods its due Wand, when I went to Birmingham for UFC 138 the crowd there were very welcoming and friendly.

 

Yeah, I find MMA crowds in general, the times I've been anyway, to be quite friendly. 138 especially seemed to be full of really friendly people though. I think the criticism the card got going in meant that a lot more hardcore fans turned up on the night and a lot less Just Bleed knuckledraggers. Maybe that's something to do with it.

 

The first UFC I went to (80 in Newcastle) was possibly the most friendly crowd I've been in anywhere. I'm talking MMA, Boxing, Football, gigs etc. Just a really great atmosphere. We ended up next to some really sound Geordie blokes who were sitting by us and even ended up going on the piss with them after the show. Great night.

 

I didn't go to any in the early days though obviously so I can't compare. I imagine as it's gone from a sideshow to a sport, the crowd situation has got a lot better. There's a different kind of fan turning up to your average MMA event now on the whole I think.

Edited January 26, 2013 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

ive never seen any trouble at an MMA show, i attended a couple of Cage Rage's and they were fine, i've found boxing crowds more hostile than an MMA crowd, that tends to be because at the boxing shows ive been too (the smaller ones) the crowd is made up of several groups of fans who are there to see one specific fighter...ive never seen a fight break out though.