Paid Members seph Posted April 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) You don't see F1 fans letterbombing Fernando Alonso  We did, one year, see the Spanish fans dressed as gorillas claiming to be Lewis Hamilton's family. While he and Alonso were team-mates, IIRC. Edited April 20, 2011 by seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Yoghurt - so basically, Lennon brings it on himself by being a Tim? Or am I misunderstanding you? Â Chris - yeah, almost certainly a lone nutter. As for your point about Muslims, I actually disagree that Muslims are "made into hate figures." Some individual Muslims are made into hate figures - Abu Hamza and the like probably got more abuse than they actually deserved, and they deserved a good deal. As a rule though, any time there is any sort of badness committed in the name of Allah, the media trip over themselves to get talking heads in to proclaim Islam as a religion of peace, perverted by lunatics. I think if this was a Muslim sending letterbombs to politicians and their lawyers, you'd get a bit of foaming at the mouth from the Sun and the Daily Mail, the majority of people would say it was terrible and wrong but most Muslims aren't like that and the perpetrator would be hunted down. You wouldn't under any circumstances get anyone saying that both sides are as bad as each other, or that the victims bring it on themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) What the fuck are you talking about you sour dough headed dimwit. I am quite clearly saying that the religious sectarianism prevalent in Scottish football is given a wide berth because of religious grounds, given the enormous and unwarranted religious bias in this and many other nations. Â I know nothing of Lennon or what he has done, I do know that a footballer shouldn't have bombs sent to him. Frankly nobody ever should, ever. Religion is the cause, the cure is pushing it to the fringes of society where it belongs. Edited April 20, 2011 by Yoghurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I think it's very hard to say religion's the cause here, hating protestants isn't a pre requisite, or even tolerated by the leaders and preachers of the protestant faith, and the same goes the other way. It comes down to irish settling in scotland, and the bad blood that that immigration caused, or in ireland the bad blood caused by the english invading and starving the people. Call it tribalism, old rivalries, football, whatever, I don't think the catholic v protestant thing can really be traced back to their religion, cos there religions nigh on identical and preaches understanding and forgiveness on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Wasn't Martin O'Neill a Northern Irish Catholic though? He managed Celtic and didn't get anything like the treatment Lennon is getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted April 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 20, 2011 Wasn't Martin O'Neill a Northern Irish Catholic though? He managed Celtic and didn't get anything like the treatment Lennon is getting. I suspect that the distinguishing feature is their characters. O'Neill's a soft-spoken, likeable chap who merits respect. Lennon really doesn't come across like that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm also not too sure posing for pictures such as this has done Lennon's reputation any good either; Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Scott Malbranque Posted April 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Wasn't Martin O'Neill a Northern Irish Catholic though? He managed Celtic and didn't get anything like the treatment Lennon is getting. I suspect that the distinguishing feature is their characters. O'Neill's a soft-spoken, likeable chap who merits respect. Lennon really doesn't come across like that at all. Â I'm Irish Catholic and I can't stand Celtic, but I liked O'Neill. Was just speaking to a Celtic fan in me job here at lunch about this funnily enough. I think Lennon brings it all on himself, as he's mouthy and arrogant, or 'passionate' as some people would say. But in fairness, nobody deserves what he's been through. It makes me sick that football, religion and politics all cross paths with lethal consequences on a regular basis... On the other side of the coin, wasn't that Alan Smith young lad getting threats from the Irish/Celtic extremists, when he signed for Rangers? And he's only a boy. It's just ridiculous... Edited April 20, 2011 by Scott Malbranque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shep Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I actually disagree that Muslims are "made into hate figures."... Â Some individual Muslims are made into hate figures - Abu Hamza and the like probably got more abuse than they actually deserved, and they deserved a good deal. As a rule though, any time there is any sort of badness committed in the name of Allah, the media trip over themselves to get talking heads in to proclaim Islam as a religion of peace, perverted by lunatics.... Â ...you'd get a bit of foaming at the mouth from the Sun and the Daily Mail... Â While the BBC really do trip over themselves to be balanced, even to the extent of giving homeopaths, anti-vaxers and other woo merchants the same right to reply as the medical profession, I would say the media in general are not remotely balanced on their stoking of Islamophobia. To mention the Sun and the Daily Mail/MoS as if they represent a small splinter group is grossly inaccurate, they have the biggest circulation of any newspapers in this country. Add in the reporting in the rest of the Murdoch press and Desmond's grubby little rags and the print media is overwhelmingly progating all manner of right wing myths and horror stories to undermine multi cultural society in this country. Â [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Quagmire Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Wasn't Martin O'Neill a Northern Irish Catholic though? He managed Celtic and didn't get anything like the treatment Lennon is getting. I suspect that the distinguishing feature is their characters. O'Neill's a soft-spoken, likeable chap who merits respect. Lennon really doesn't come across like that at all. Well he is from Lurgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted April 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 20, 2011 The reason why I wonder about whether it's really a sectarian thing, rather than sectarianism being used as a pretext to continue an inexplicably venomous rivalry in football, is because of the Edinburgh clubs. Â As I understand it, Hibs are Catholic and Hearts are Protestant, right? Can someone in the know elucidate as to why the Edinburgh rivalry doesn't seem to be anywhere near as hateful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bashar Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The reason why I wonder about whether it's really a sectarian thing, rather than sectarianism being used as a pretext to continue an inexplicably venomous rivalry in football, is because of the Edinburgh clubs. As I understand it, Hibs are Catholic and Hearts are Protestant, right? Can someone in the know elucidate as to why the Edinburgh rivalry doesn't seem to be anywhere near as hateful?  Celtic and Rangers are usually competing over the prizes? Anyone who's read some Irvine Welsh knows there is definitely tension there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Outside the football bubble, it just seems like madness, the sort of nonsense that has more or less disappeared from the English game at least. Perhaps relative poverty levels play a part too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted April 20, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) The reason why I wonder about whether it's really a sectarian thing, rather than sectarianism being used as a pretext to continue an inexplicably venomous rivalry in football, is because of the Edinburgh clubs. As I understand it, Hibs are Catholic and Hearts are Protestant, right? Can someone in the know elucidate as to why the Edinburgh rivalry doesn't seem to be anywhere near as hateful?  Celtic and Rangers are usually competing over the prizes? Anyone who's read some Irvine Welsh knows there is definitely tension there.  But surely that further validates my point? If it were truly about sectarianism, wouldn't the Edinburgh rivalry be equally vicious, regardless of whether or not they're challenging for the silverware?  Outside the football bubble, it just seems like madness, the sort of nonsense that has more or less disappeared from the English game at least. Perhaps relative poverty levels play a part too?  Was it ever really there? I know in Manchester, United were supposedly Catholic and City were Protestant, and the same in Liverpool for Everton and LFC respectively, but even back in the old days, surely it never played much of a factor in the rivalries? I can't remember any British rivalries being particularly nasty on such a long-term basis, outside Millwall and anyone else they're feuding with. Edited April 20, 2011 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The reason why I wonder about whether it's really a sectarian thing, rather than sectarianism being used as a pretext to continue an inexplicably venomous rivalry in football, is because of the Edinburgh clubs. As I understand it, Hibs are Catholic and Hearts are Protestant, right? Can someone in the know elucidate as to why the Edinburgh rivalry doesn't seem to be anywhere near as hateful?  Celtic and Rangers are usually competing over the prizes? Anyone who's read some Irvine Welsh knows there is definitely tension there.  But surely that further validates my point? If it were truly about sectarianism, wouldn't the Edinburgh rivalry be equally vicious, regardless of whether or not they're challenging for the silverware?  Not really. If Man City were the only realistic challengers to Man Utd and the league had been fairly evenly split between them for 100 years, don't you think the rivalry there would be pretty vicious too?  Also, to my knowledge, Hearts never had an explicitly anti-Catholic signing policy that still rankles with the other side. Also, Hibs made a decision pretty early on in their existence to distance the club from its Irish Catholic roots specifically because they felt they needed to be less conspicuous in order to get ahead.Catholic club they actually had difficulty getting other clubs to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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