General politics discussion thread

[patiirc]

What do people think of this? I've always thought that English regional assemblies/parliaments covering areas with similar populations to Wales and Scotland would make more sense than an English parliament.

 

 

A Northwest Parliament was mooted for ages ( I cant find any links apart from this sorry) well before this when Labour were in devolvement central.

 

 

Too expensive and completely impractical. Good to See ole' Davey B, trying to get policy that has already been scrapped because was a complete waste, once started again.

 

Where is the cash going to come from? Whats the point of having as many Mp's if everything is devolved. How would this work in terms of implementing EU diktats, what it one area refused or stuck out.. Independence vote for Cornwall ( It has been mooted) thus instead of a nation, become a conglomeration of smaller states each micro managed in a way that would negate the point of a UK Parliament?

[David]

There was a time when wannabe politicians, pseud's, political activist's and those trying to prove a point would, actually quantify their arguments or at least back them up with facts or other sources rather than just taking an opposing view, presenting 'blogs and opinion peices as fact', and not justifying what they've said or not bother to read around it to see if what they are being fed is 'truth', 'bollocks' or some where in between.

I'm thinking you may be referring to me there, and i'd just like to clear that up for you, Patdfb.

 

I haven't provided any blogs under the impression that they are fact. I provide such material because I think it's interesting to read what various opinions on certain matters are.

 

These 'blind faithers', believe without question seemingly and promote their views as if its still the overwhelming hegemonic stance. You cant disagree with their view point because they are too stupid, stubborn, brainwashed(delete as appropriate) to even countenance that an other view is possible without the need to defend to the death 'their masters whim' or realise that there is the possibility of a different political polemic, without compromising their core values

 

Come back to us when you have learned how to back up or indeed comment on your assertions, without the need to go ' Its true cos I read it somewhere' expecting people to believe it and failure to quote your sources. It would appear that these orators have ever checked anything else and thus believe what thy are spoon fed. Change all that and then perhaps we can have a more informed discussion.

As far as the cuts go, we have such people as Joseph Stiglitz, a university Professor at Columbia University and a Nobel laureate in Economics warning of the dangers of deficit reduction.

 

There are others, such as Paul Krugman, who writes about the situation in question, and Robert Skidelsky who wrote this article.

 

There are others out there of similar standing who say the same.

[patiirc]

I'm thinking you may be referring to me there, and i'd just like to clear that up for you, Patdfb.

 

I haven't provided any blogs under the impression that they are fact. I provide such material because I think it's interesting to read what various opinions on certain matters are.

 

I wasnt, it was a 'general' discussion.

 

However, since you've answered. You but various things up but no discussions or sources, why is that? Doesnt take long to add more than 'should be interesting' or some other inane comments to contextualise it? Too much?

 

There are others, such as Paul Krugman, who writes about the situation in question, and Robert Skidelsky who wrote this article.

 

There are others out there of similar standing who say the same.

 

Okay, Ill get a boat load of supposedly Keynesian economists, most of whom champion or consider influential on each others work ( check variety of places its common knowledge afaik) to big up that deficit spending is the way forward.

 

Chuck in a Nobel Prize Winner( doesnt count for much Iam sure for example when Obama won the peace prize it showed how little it meant in some circles on here anyway). which doesnt carry much weight anymore nor does it mean 'quality' (Transposing Nobel prizes Literature for example Toni Morrison Nobel prize for literature winner, who's novels are depressing and shit. If you want a 'happy' time read The Bluest Eye. Steinbeck, Tim Gautreaux and others can do the Mid/Deep South and poverty so much better and thats just off the top of me head) I digress

 

...

 

 

Keynes advocated deficit spending as an intergral part of his ideas. So its hardly likely a bunch of Keynesian theorists are going to go against that are they? The ideas are based on a 1930's models which have been adapted as WASP/ASP countries mainstay since then. Alot has happened in 80 years and even though the Charalists who also think that Deficit Spending is necessary full stop. Also see Okuns and Verdoorns Laws iirc Nothing has altered since then seemingly such is the fear of another Wall Street Crash.

 

All of your links ( not Wiki ones) Pay much to the 'global' scene or rather those developed countries that are traditional 'giants'. Even Stiglitz (your link) only says that were werent worse than the US because of no Human resource wastage. He doesnt comment directly on anything else regarding it being a better model nor does he mention what's shit about it either

 

he United Kingdom, for example, has had a harder time than other countries for an obvious reason: it had a real-estate bubble (though of less consequence than in Spain), and finance, which was at the epicenter of the crisis, played a more important role in its economy than it does in other countries.

 

The UK

Edited October 27, 2010 by patdfb

[David]

I was going to reply to yet another one of your headscratchingly confusing posts, Patdfb, but I don't think i'll even try and put it as well as Bobbins did a few pages back;

 

Your current situation must have been a drastic shock to your worldview. Rather than developing empathy with your fellow humans in similar situations, you seem to have pushed against the evidence with all your psyche, to the point where you have become utterly deluded and sought any means to confirm your existing worldview, no matter how counter-intuitive. As a result, your views have become even more extreme, unpleasant and unsympathetic.

 

Even if you were pushed onto the streets or to a point of permanent disability by this drastic attack on the welfare state, you'd be railing against the "scroungers" in the same boat as you, daring to claim the benefits that they are fully entitled to thanks to our living in a civilised society.

[patiirc]

I was going to reply to yet another one of your headscratchingly confusing posts, Patdfb, but I don't think i'll even try and put it as well as Bobbins did a few pages back;

 

Cant be bothered it is then!. Nice one Cyril

 

These posts are confusing how exactly? You post, I respond. You cant be bothered and then walk off, again

 

Oh and back to the insults.. deep joy, makes a change

[David]

Cant be bothered it is then!. Nice one Cyril

[mikey]

Personally, I'm for deficit reduction. My issue is where ringfencing is taking place. New Labour massively and secretly expanded the public sector and the Conservatives are very publicly cutting it. Then again, I personally think that New Labour didn't have a clue what government should and shouldn't be involved in.

[David]

I have to admit, the cover from the latest edition of Private Eye magazine got a laugh from me;

 

[The King Of Swing]

The fact that Osbourne and the rest of the Government are acting so smug about things certainly isn't helping matters thats for sure but then again why would they be sad I mean what are they sacrificing?

[Van Dammer]

The fact that Osbourne and the rest of the Government are acting so smug about things certainly isn't helping matters thats for sure but then again why would they be sad I mean what are they sacrificing?

 

I think this will be a real defining factor for them. I think everyone, regardless how Labour loyal they are know these cuts are essential, they arnt beneficial for anyone, but essential they are. BUT Osborne in particular but also Cameron and Clegg are coming across very badly with their laughing in the commons during PMQ's and the Spending review and their general body language doesnt read somebdoy with regret but actually, worryingly, somebody very smug and very unapologetic. I really think it will ruin them.

 

No PM should ever smirk when being asked a question by the opposition about 500,000 people losing jobs, regardless of where the blame lies.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Van Dammer

[David]

[i think everyone, regardless how Labour loyal they are know these cuts are essential, they arnt beneficial for anyone, but essential they are.

I'm neither loyal to Labour, nor do I view these cuts as essential.

 

As for Osbourne and Cameron laughing their way through this, why shouldn't they?

 

They're doing exactly what they wanted to. Decimating the welfare state.

 

EDIT: Just seen

video about the London firefighters who went on strike after they all had their contracts terminated so that their contract terms & conditions could be changed. Edited October 28, 2010 by David

[Van Dammer]

[i think everyone, regardless how Labour loyal they are know these cuts are essential, they arnt beneficial for anyone, but essential they are.

I'm neither loyal to Labour, nor do I view these cuts as essential.

 

As for Osbourne and Cameron laughing their way through this, why shouldn't they?

 

They're doing exactly what they wanted to. Decimating the welfare state.

 

EDIT: Just seen

video about the London firefighters who went on strike after they all had their contracts terminated so that their contract terms & conditions could be changed.

 

You might not be Labour loyal but most of your views are very pro Labour from what ive read on here.

 

Why wouldnt they laugh? Because they want to be re-elected?

Edited October 28, 2010 by Van Dammer

[David]

You might not be Labour loyal but most of your views are very pro Labour from what ive read on here.

That's possibly the most insulting thing anyone on this forum has ever said to me

[mikey]

Labour aren't left wing though.....

[Ronnie]

You might not be Labour loyal but most of your views are very pro Labour from what ive read on here.

That's possibly the most insulting thing anyone on this forum has ever said to me

I think you could probably prefix what Van Dammer meant with "Old", in which case he's right, isn't he? I would think that that was his intention anyway.