The Pavel Florin Supporters Club and Cricket Thread

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

Prior has done ok with the gloves, but he looks like a good test quality batsman. If he was allowed to just bat in a test he could blossom into a top class test quality batsman and he could potentially win the match for as as a batsman. While he has to split his time between 2 roles it hampers his batting. Look at Alec Stewart, he averaged just over 34 as a 'keeper which is meh, but nearly 47 a just a batsman which is top test class. Prior may not be that good yet, but he should be given the chance to be, and with KP out injured this is the best chance to try him.

[Devon Malcolm]

Prior has done ok with the gloves, but he looks like a good test quality batsman. If he was allowed to just bat in a test he could blossom into a top class test quality batsman and he could potentially win the match for as as a batsman. While he has to split his time between 2 roles it hampers his batting. Look at Alec Stewart, he averaged just over 34 as a 'keeper which is meh, but nearly 47 a just a batsman which is top test class. Prior may not be that good yet, but he should be given the chance to be, and with KP out injured this is the best chance to try him.

 

You're wrong about Stewart's 'meh' average. I think Gilchrist's amazing feats as a keeper-batsman and his 50+ average has distorted people's views as to what to expect from a keeper. Outside of him, you will struggle to find that many regular test keepers who average over 35, so Stewart's average as a keeper was actually very good indeed.

 

Prior's current average is outstanding and I don't see any reason to go tampering with one of the very few settled positions in the team in the off chance that he might score a few extra runs - even more so in a test match that England have to win, and thus tying up a place that could easily be filled by a proper batsman or bowler who could win us the test match.

[jonny_rage]

on a slightly happier note than the current England drama is Twenty20 finals day which takes place tomorrow at Edgbaston. Im going but as i don't support any of the teams involved it will be a day where i can just relax and watch the cricket.

 

does anyone have teams involved? and how do you think they will fair?

[Baz Windham]

Yep i'll be there too tomorrow. Forecast looks decent which is good.

 

My team, Worcester, aren't involved so like you i'm just looking forward to a bumper day of Twenty20 with plenty of food/drink and of course the Mascot Derby!!! The winner of Kent/Somerset looks the best bet but you never know with Twenty20

[The Icon]

Well, the debates rage on, and Bell and Trott have done nothing but further muddy the waters with their county performance, but I'm still of the opinion that the team needs Key and Ramps in, older heads will prevail.

 

Money where mouth is time:

 

Strauss

Cook

Key

Ramprakash

Collingwood

Prior

Flintoff

Swann

Broad

Anderson

Onions

 

Oh, and Frankie, stay out of my head, I drempt Graeme Hick won us the Ashes the other day... creepy.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Tricky 'Red Hot' Rikki

[jonny_rage]

Yep i'll be there too tomorrow. Forecast looks decent which is good.

 

My team, Worcester, aren't involved so like you i'm just looking forward to a bumper day of Twenty20 with plenty of food/drink and of course the Mascot Derby!!! The winner of Kent/Somerset looks the best bet but you never know with Twenty20

 

i too am a Worcester fan, no suprise we are not there due to the unrest going on at new road. i think Kent will win they always seem to do well at twenty20s

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

Prior has done ok with the gloves, but he looks like a good test quality batsman. If he was allowed to just bat in a test he could blossom into a top class test quality batsman and he could potentially win the match for as as a batsman. While he has to split his time between 2 roles it hampers his batting. Look at Alec Stewart, he averaged just over 34 as a 'keeper which is meh, but nearly 47 a just a batsman which is top test class. Prior may not be that good yet, but he should be given the chance to be, and with KP out injured this is the best chance to try him.

 

You're wrong about Stewart's 'meh' average. I think Gilchrist's amazing feats as a keeper-batsman and his 50+ average has distorted people's views as to what to expect from a keeper. Outside of him, you will struggle to find that many regular test keepers who average over 35, so Stewart's average as a keeper was actually very good indeed.

 

Prior's current average is outstanding and I don't see any reason to go tampering with one of the very few settled positions in the team in the off chance that he might score a few extra runs - even more so in a test match that England have to win, and thus tying up a place that could easily be filled by a proper batsman or bowler who could win us the test match.

 

Your probably right about the whole Gilchrist/Stewart thing. I just think Prior could be in KP's league as a batsman given the chance, and I don't think he will get that chance while he is keeping, or if KP is in the team. That leaves a narrow window to try him out and critical test match or not that time is now.

 

The other thing is I don't think any other proper batsman or bowler they could pick will significantly increase our chance of winning. I think we are lucky to be in this position. We could easily be behind in the series at this point, the Aussies have all the momentum going in to this test.

[Devon Malcolm]

Your probably right about the whole Gilchrist/Stewart thing. I just think Prior could be in KP's league as a batsman given the chance, and I don't think he will get that chance while he is keeping, or if KP is in the team. That leaves a narrow window to try him out and critical test match or not that time is now.

 

The other thing is I don't think any other proper batsman or bowler they could pick will significantly increase our chance of winning. I think we are lucky to be in this position. We could easily be behind in the series at this point, the Aussies have all the momentum going in to this test.

 

You seem to be presuming that if Prior dropped the gloves that he would instantly become a better batsman. Gilchrist was asked last year during the IPL if he had felt that playing as a specialist batsman might have led to him posting better figures. He said no because he batted down at 6 and 7 where he felt the pressure was off him and that he could be more freely expressive. He actually suggested that if he moved up to 4 or 5 as a specialist that he would have fared worse.

 

I'm not suggesting that would be the case with Prior, but the carefree and aggressive way he plays at 6 or 7 would have to be reigned in if he moved up the order and played as a specialist batsman at 4 or 5. I really am surprised that you think a match of such magnitude is the time and place to start experimenting with players in this regard, and after the time and investment that England have made in trying to get Prior to improve his keeping skills (which appears to be working, I cannot remember an error from him in the whole series) that you are advocating chucking that all down the pan.

 

As for Foster, I'm afraid the days are gone when a wicket-keeper is picked first for his keeping and then for his batting, and I am of that school of thinking. Foster would be down the list behind Davies, Ambrose and even Geraint Jones for me.

[PowerButchi]

Oh, and Frankie, stay out of my head, I drempt Graeme Hick won us the Ashes the other day... creepy.

 

If you build it, they will come.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

Your probably right about the whole Gilchrist/Stewart thing. I just think Prior could be in KP's league as a batsman given the chance, and I don't think he will get that chance while he is keeping, or if KP is in the team. That leaves a narrow window to try him out and critical test match or not that time is now.

 

The other thing is I don't think any other proper batsman or bowler they could pick will significantly increase our chance of winning. I think we are lucky to be in this position. We could easily be behind in the series at this point, the Aussies have all the momentum going in to this test.

 

You seem to be presuming that if Prior dropped the gloves that he would instantly become a better batsman. Gilchrist was asked last year during the IPL if he had felt that playing as a specialist batsman might have led to him posting better figures. He said no because he batted down at 6 and 7 where he felt the pressure was off him and that he could be more freely expressive. He actually suggested that if he moved up to 4 or 5 as a specialist that he would have fared worse.

 

I'm not suggesting that would be the case with Prior, but the carefree and aggressive way he plays at 6 or 7 would have to be reigned in if he moved up the order and played as a specialist batsman at 4 or 5. I really am surprised that you think a match of such magnitude is the time and place to start experimenting with players in this regard, and after the time and investment that England have made in trying to get Prior to improve his keeping skills (which appears to be working, I cannot remember an error from him in the whole series) that you are advocating chucking that all down the pan.

 

As for Foster, I'm afraid the days are gone when a wicket-keeper is picked first for his keeping and then for his batting, and I am of that school of thinking. Foster would be down the list behind Davies, Ambrose and even Geraint Jones for me.

 

If Foster is so far down the pecking order in batting terms then why did England pick him for the T20 world cup? They must have some confidence in his ability as a batsman.

 

I also don't think Prior would instantly become better, just like I said the potential to be a lot better is. As for Gilchrist, there is a difference for him as he only plays T20 now and is hardly a fair comparison.

 

I know we are never going to agree and you are right, they will never experiment to such an extent in such an important test, but thinking in traditional terms is what has got us into the position we are in now with Australia dominant and with all the momentum. I just think that a left field choice could easily throw their plans into disarray.

[Devon Malcolm]

Your probably right about the whole Gilchrist/Stewart thing. I just think Prior could be in KP's league as a batsman given the chance, and I don't think he will get that chance while he is keeping, or if KP is in the team. That leaves a narrow window to try him out and critical test match or not that time is now.

 

The other thing is I don't think any other proper batsman or bowler they could pick will significantly increase our chance of winning. I think we are lucky to be in this position. We could easily be behind in the series at this point, the Aussies have all the momentum going in to this test.

 

You seem to be presuming that if Prior dropped the gloves that he would instantly become a better batsman. Gilchrist was asked last year during the IPL if he had felt that playing as a specialist batsman might have led to him posting better figures. He said no because he batted down at 6 and 7 where he felt the pressure was off him and that he could be more freely expressive. He actually suggested that if he moved up to 4 or 5 as a specialist that he would have fared worse.

 

I'm not suggesting that would be the case with Prior, but the carefree and aggressive way he plays at 6 or 7 would have to be reigned in if he moved up the order and played as a specialist batsman at 4 or 5. I really am surprised that you think a match of such magnitude is the time and place to start experimenting with players in this regard, and after the time and investment that England have made in trying to get Prior to improve his keeping skills (which appears to be working, I cannot remember an error from him in the whole series) that you are advocating chucking that all down the pan.

 

As for Foster, I'm afraid the days are gone when a wicket-keeper is picked first for his keeping and then for his batting, and I am of that school of thinking. Foster would be down the list behind Davies, Ambrose and even Geraint Jones for me.

 

If Foster is so far down the pecking order in batting terms then why did England pick him for the T20 world cup? They must have some confidence in his ability as a batsman.

 

I also don't think Prior would instantly become better, just like I said the potential to be a lot better is. As for Gilchrist, there is a difference for him as he only plays T20 now and is hardly a fair comparison.

 

I know we are never going to agree and you are right, they will never experiment to such an extent in such an important test, but thinking in traditional terms is what has got us into the position we are in now with Australia dominant and with all the momentum. I just think that a left field choice could easily throw their plans into disarray.

 

Geoff Miller clearly stated before the T20 World Cup that Foster had been picked for his wicket-keeping as he felt he could effect vital dismissals. In fairness, he did pull off one good stumping but his batting really did nothing.

 

I don't really know why you think Gilchrist isn't a good comparison, I wasn't talking about his T20 work, I was talking about his test match play and that is what he was referring too. I think you may have misunderstood me here.

 

Plus, I don't think the selectors have been thinking in traditional terms and I think THAT is what got them in trouble at Headingley. We shouldn't have needed 5 specialist bowlers there - history and tradition tells us that 4 is usually enough there, and an extra batsman might have made the difference.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

The trouble with Headingley was Prior's back spasm and the trouble that caused. Every single Yorkshireman was telling anyone who would listen to bowl first as the overhead conditions were right for swing and that the wicket would get better to bat on for days 2 and 3. I genuinely think that had Prior not had his back injury then we would have bowled. They decided to bat to give Prior more time for his back to heal. That backfired spectacularly and that is why we are in the trouble we are now.

[Harvey Dent]

the 14 man squad was announced this morning, only change is Ravi out and Monty in. So with that in mind I reckon they'll go with the team I predicted.

[Devon Malcolm]

What does Rashid have to do to get picked? He just scored a century and picked up a 5 wicket haul in the same match and yet Panesar, who has done nothing all season, walks back in. Utter bollocks.

[PowerButchi]

Sentimental reasons, I'd say. Look at Harmy.