iPumaPants

How soon after the show finishes will it be available on NJPWWorld?

Looking to start watching this evening, 6-7pm. 

The idea of JR getting busy in the sheets has ruined my Christmas.

18 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Did this actually happen?

I don't know, I don't watch EastEnders.

23 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

I think Kat is having a fine day trolling you all and you're haplessly falling for the bait.

I don't spend a lot of time of this forum, but it does seem to be somewhat of a hobby for Kat 

Wrestling without storytelling is like Eastenders having Dot Cotton's funeral without telling us she died, or Kat Slater having Ian Beale's baby without telling us they've hooked up. You'd lose interest in the crap really quickly. 

Clearly that's happening with AEW.

Just now, UK Kat Von D said:

I don’t think many casual fans are going to complain they don’t know who someone is, because they will be aware they don’t know who anyone is. Unless The Undertaker and Kane show up they will probably be clueless for most of the show. They’ll recognise Jericho and just say “oh, as if he is still about.”

 

And how do you get to know who someone is? Through being told about them. 

Obviously, people couldn't Google 'The Undertaker' when he debuted, but he was made to look incredible, and the story told by commentary was that he was mysterious and huge, and his look was fascinating enough at the time to grab interest. Nothing interesting about just another guy in tights.Kane debuts. We're told he's The Undertaker's brother. He debuts in a way that makes sense, and creates an immediate buzz, with Paul Bearer, who we're already aware of, because of his Undertaker history. It's easy. We don't need more than that. When AJ Styles came to WWE, we were told he's the hottest free agent on the market, and a former IWGP Champion in Japan. And after that, he's telling us how he took his time to get to WWE, and it made sense. At the very least, we had some story.

We have none of that with any of the AEW guys.

9 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

My point is the only people who will actually complain that things haven’t been properly explained are the ones already spending a lot of time on the internet. Casual fans will be used to being told “this guy is the best” and just going with it.

The drop off in ratings is down to a few things, but I don’t think lack of explaining what Omega and Young Bucks did on the indies or in Japan is one of them.  

Yes, probably because the casual who has tuned in doesn't care enough to complain on the internet, but may have quietly said to themselves, "Who the fuck is this guy? I don't care" and switched off. More than possible, seeing as they've lost 100,000 viewers in the last few weeks. 

Not knowing enough about a wrestler, combined with a lack of intrigue, is definitely a reason for decline. Not the reason, but a reason. I haven't heard a lot be told about Mox's background, but he's intriguing enough with his debut, his entrance, and his showings so far. Kenny Omega is just another dude, and if I didn't know about him before, I wouldn't care. Just like I don't care about half the roster, and I'm really trying to like AEW. 

Just now, UK Kat Von D said:

He was agreeing with you.

I know. I'm just pointing out the decline because some people might not realise it was a comment made in agreement.

Episode 1 - 1.4m

Episode 13 - 683,000.

Point made?

1 minute ago, UK Kat Von D said:

The time you spend complaining about not knowing backstories could be spent learning the backstories...

Sorry for the double post, but the complaining is because the backstories should be explained. There shouldn't be any research necessary. Tell me who Kenny Omega is. Tell me why the Young Bucks are the best. Tell me why it's a big deal for Private Party to beat them. 

So easy, and yet for some reason, not done.

The Kenny Omega build should have been so much better. I was so fascinated by Omega when I discovered his NJPW stuff, because he truly is one of the best in-ring storytellers. And for me, the build is obvious. 

A well polished video, quick snippets of his bigger moves (Terminator Dive, Snapdragon Suplex, V-Trigger, One Winged Angel), little flashes of text between clips ("PWI #1 in the World 2018", "7*! Best Match Ever! - Dave Meltzer, Wrestling Observer", "Three best rated matches ever!", "Former IWGP Heavyweight Champion"), ending with a flashy graphic (I dunno, "Kenny Omega arrives....NOW!" or something), and then his AEW Dynamite debut. By the time they started airing weekly TV, they already had a few shows worth of footage, plus All In footage. I assume they wouldn't be allowed to use NJPW stuff. Even if you don't explain what IWGP is, it still tells you he's a former world champion. He's big time. Explain whilst he's walking to the ring that he spent years in Japan, having arguably the best matches ever seen. Explain his alliance with Hangman Page and the Bucks. 

A little goes a long way. 

That's not edited, is it? I don't pay much attention to the little banners, but that's ridiculous, if it's legit.

Whilst it wasn't the big end-of-year show I hoped for, nothing was particularly offensive, other than the continued lack of match planning around other matches, repetitive suicide dives, and JR being dreadful. 

3 hours ago, WyattSheepMask said:

They’re not, but it’s the kind of thing that WWE get absolutely paggered for on social media, but AEW get away with it for some reason.

They're a new brand and finding their feet still. They've drawn well at PPV events, but not at TV. But if 4500 is their current standard, you'd hope the only way was up.

WWE had the base of thousands for a Raw and Smackdown, so when they're pulling in 5000 or so, it looks like they've gone downhill. 

The All Out figure was based on demand for tickets for the event, no? Their current ticket sales don't necessarily reflect on how many they'd have sold for All Out.

It is a bit shocking though. 4500 at last week's TV. WWE aren't doing a ton better at filling arenas, are they? 

3 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Certainly keeping it vague. So we'll probably end up with Britt Baker doing a dentist surgery signing tour.

Is she a dentist?

25 minutes ago, boytoy said:

I find it weird that the singles roster is so small but then guys like Hager and Wardlow aren't really wrestling either.

At this point, I really want to see them wrestle. I want Dustin vs Hagar and maybe even Cody vs Wardlow. 

And that's how it's supposed to work, no? Make you want to see them?

I don't think I've ever wanted to see a Jake Hagar/Swagger match before.

It was a big thing for Cody and the Bucks when AEW was first announced, making sure people got insured through AEW. 

Hopefully they followed through on that.

Still doesn't justify paying Jimmy Havoc 6 figures.

1 hour ago, The King of Old School said:

Agreed.

How on earth are we meant to believe that he is a threat to anyone.

He looks about 50x more threatening than Havoc. Not saying much, but it's something.

Janela's appeal/threat is in his do-anything-to-win, daredevil style, no? I quite enjoy his work, but he's not the best, that's for sure.

I don't know about that. When he first starting off in NXT, with his spotlight entrance, squash matches etc, he was cool. The fans counting to see how long his opponent lasted. 

The coolest he ever was.

4 hours ago, wordsfromlee said:

I didn't mind it too much when NXT were having their finishers finishing the match during squash matches on TV rather than random moves/small packages. 

Back when Baron Corbin was cool.

Just to be clear, Rusev is subject to a restraining order but has to put Lashley through a table?

4 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Oh me too, but either they are saying these things and they are falling on deaf ears or they are just keeping quiet and collecting a hefty pay cheque.
I have a feeling there is a little bit of a 'well we know better, Grandad' attitude within AEW - I have no particular basis for this it's just a feeling - and that the lack of having anyone to answer to combined with earning more money than any of them will have made in their entire lives [Jimmy fucking Havoc is apparently on a 6 figure deal!! Six fucking figures!!! Jimmy Havoc!!!) is bringing out the worst in some people.
AEW needs to find a balance between being the apparent authoritarian dictatorship that WWE appears to be in regards to controlling what talent does, and the totally free reign 'Do what you want, guys!' attitude they seem to have at the moment. 

I've befriended a few UK wrestlers, and even they've said, backstage at independant shows people try to not do the same spots, repeat different moves etc. A company the size of AEW, regardless of what they're getting paid (although someone got robbed paying Havoc that much - he's absolute shit), should be able to get the message across that 4 over the top rope dives in the first match can't be followed by 2 in the 2nd, 3 in the 4th and 1 in the main event. It's not rocket science. 

IF the penny does drop, and Tony Khan realises that it's all being shit on online (because he's clearly as much a message board fan as we are), then these agents who have sat by and let it all happen could lose their jobs, and then what? If they aren't being listened to, they need some level of authority to reprimand the guys and girls for the shit they pull. 

I completely agree with your last statement. That balance, I think, is easy to find. Moxley has freedom, as does Jericho. They're over as fuck. Leave them to it until something isn't feeling right. But have a say in what happens. Don't destroy the impact of a 450 splash finish by having someone kick out of a 630 earlier in the night. How can anyone buy Penta's piledriver as a finish when people are kicking out of springboard Canadian Destroyers? It's just soul crushingly baffling.

1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

'I had to put my ego aside and do what was right for my career and the company. I had to stop doing all the things I could do' - The Undertaker [paraphrased].

Can you imagine if peak-1991 Undertaker was doing leapfrogs and dives out of the ring just because he could?
 

This is exactly it. But I refuse to believe that Billy Gunn, Dean Malenko or Arn Anderson (he's an agent for AEW, right?) don't understand wrestling somewhere near to how UT does. 

I was talking to some friends about this recently, and it ties in with the commentary being absolutely shocking at times (mostly because of JR). If this is a result of people being given completely free rein to do as they want, say as they want, etc, it doesn't work and Cody or Tony Khan or someone needs to realise soon. The commentators don't know the rules for the AEW tag matches, the referees don't know what's going on, and the matches are now just looking like carbon copies of the one before it, because no-one is telling anyone anything. 

I love AEW, as a product, but it's those things that I see as little, easy to fix things, that are becoming big things and putting me off the whole thing. 

7 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Yup. Agreed. Hate this too. Sadly, thats modern wrestling.

It's the worst thing about modern wrestling. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. Unbelievable that Malenko and Billy Gunn aren't all over this, telling people not to do 45 dives per show, or telling the heels to cut it out. Especially Malenko. You'd expect more respect for psychology from him.

The only exception, I'd say, is PAC. The Black Arrow into the submission is a great move, and his dives are one a match, or so. But he gets away with it because he looks like he should do it. Unlike the Butcher and the Blade.