Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 What do you think the problem is with developing black football managers or coaches at the highest level? The law of averages suggests that there is a problem. Until recently there were no black managers in the 92 professional league clubs. With Chris Powell and Keith Curle scoring jobs recently, that's now 2/92. A little more than 2%. That's certainly nowhere near the percentage of players who are black, even if you go back 10-15 years. Â Is it racism? I don't think so personally. Perhaps a small amount but generally I don't think anyone is holding anyone back because they don't like black people. Â Is it because historically high profile black players haven't seemed interested in getting into management? Or of they have they haven't been public about it. Â Is it because guys like John Barnes and Paul Ince have had high profile problems managing? Â Interesting problem I think. What's the solution? The Rooney rule seems a sad option really. Is it the FA finding black ex-players and helping with whatever is stopping them taking their badges. Be it finance or perceived prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Did you hear this, Rick? John Amaechi 'debates' the issue with Dave Bassett. Scroll down and give it a listen, Â https://audioboom.com/channel/5livenewsspecials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm not in agreement with the Rooney rule at all. It screams of fighting discrimination with discrimination to me. Â I don't think the lack of black managers in English football is down to racism, but that could be me being naive and hoping that isn't the case more than anything. I'd be surprised that club owners/bosses would take race into consideration in this day and age but who knows. It's not just management either, there aren't even that many black coaches are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Maverick Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Before going for a Rooney Rule it'd be interesting to see how many black coaches are actually qualified and actively applying for positions at clubs. I don't imagine they are plethora of talented black managers out there being looked over for their race. If it were due to racist chairmen I don't think the RR would make much difference as they would just interview them and appoint someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bettencourt Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 The Rooney rule is definitely fighting discrimination with discrimination. You could be leaving one good majority raced candidate out of contention in favour of someone of a minority race who may not be as well equipped for the job. When in fact, race shouldn't be coming into these decisions and processes at all. Â I never hear of any black manager or coaches coming out and complaining that they don't get their chance though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieranjennings Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Before going for a Rooney Rule it'd be interesting to see how many black coaches are actually qualified and actively applying for positions at clubs. I don't imagine they are plethora of talented black managers out there being looked over for their race. If it were due to racist chairmen I don't think the RR would make much difference as they would just interview them and appoint someone else.  The Footballers Football Show touched on this two years ago and they mentioned that proportion of ex black pros with A &  Pro Licences was a lot less than white coaches so the top jobs immediately are unavailable.  The other issue is a lot of the high profile black players (as well as white players) dont want to drop down the divisions to get their first break. If Sol Campbell applied to be manager of Tranmere he may of got a chance but the likelihood that he would be interested in that job is minimal  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Maverick Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Former top players dropping down the leagues for a management job isn't anything that new, Robbie Fowlers been overlooked by Macclesfield and other League Two teams recently. In England it must be rare enough for former high profile players to walk into a massive job with no experience. Keane at Sunderland is the most recent one I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Football is such and old boys club, white old boys club at that. Look at the way the powers that be deal with racism and it's easy to see why people of colour want out when their playing days are over. As Amaechi said in that link I posted, the ones who benefit from a prejudicial system are seldom the voices admitting the privilege, regardless of the workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Former top players dropping down the leagues for a management job isn't anything that new, Robbie Fowlers been overlooked by Macclesfield and other League Two teams recently. In England it must be rare enough for former high profile players to walk into a massive job with no experience. Keane at Sunderland is the most recent one I can think of. Exactly. Look at Edgar Davids- a great of our generation. His first (and only, thus far) managerial appointment was Barnet in League 2. If Sol (using the same example) wanted to get into management, he knows he'd have to start low. Â Zola is another example that started his managerial career at a big club (West Ham). It doesn't usually happen in this country, but in other leagues (Italy, for example) you see it a lot more often- former players starting at a big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libertine Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The Rooney rule is definitely fighting discrimination with discrimination. You could be leaving one good majority raced candidate out of contention in favour of someone of a minority race who may not be as well equipped for the job. When in fact, race shouldn't be coming into these decisions and processes at all. Â I never hear of any black manager or coaches coming out and complaining that they don't get their chance though? John Barnes complained there was a lack of equality and that he was discriminated against for being black, however in this case i think hes just overlooked for being shit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libertine Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Â Former top players dropping down the leagues for a management job isn't anything that new, Robbie Fowlers been overlooked by Macclesfield and other League Two teams recently. In England it must be rare enough for former high profile players to walk into a massive job with no experience. Keane at Sunderland is the most recent one I can think of. Exactly. Look at Edgar Davids- a great of our generation. His first (and only, thus far) managerial appointment was Barnet in League 2. If Sol (using the same example) wanted to get into management, he knows he'd have to start low. Â Zola is another example that started his managerial career at a big club (West Ham). It doesn't usually happen in this country, but in other leagues (Italy, for example) you see it a lot more often- former players starting at a big club. Â It never used to be this way in Italy, at one time you had to have a certain number of years experience to manage a Serie A club, and coaches/managers would leave a promoted club as they were not experienced enough to coach in Serie A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Long gone are those days it seems. Milan alone have appointed Seedorf, Inzaghi, Tassotti and Leonardo in their first senior managerial roles. Ok, two of those were caretaker positions, but still. Juve appointed Ciro Ferrera as well for his first job in management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieranjennings Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Â Â Former top players dropping down the leagues for a management job isn't anything that new, Robbie Fowlers been overlooked by Macclesfield and other League Two teams recently. In England it must be rare enough for former high profile players to walk into a massive job with no experience. Keane at Sunderland is the most recent one I can think of. Exactly. Look at Edgar Davids- a great of our generation. His first (and only, thus far) managerial appointment was Barnet in League 2. If Sol (using the same example) wanted to get into management, he knows he'd have to start low. Â Zola is another example that started his managerial career at a big club (West Ham). It doesn't usually happen in this country, but in other leagues (Italy, for example) you see it a lot more often- former players starting at a big club. Â It never used to be this way in Italy, at one time you had to have a certain number of years experience to manage a Serie A club, and coaches/managers would leave a promoted club as they were not experienced enough to coach in Serie A Â Â In Holland you have to a certain number of years as a reserve team manager before you can move on to the top job. This is why other countries produce top coaches and we produce less. Coaching is a profession that needs to be worked on, over here we seem to give work to people because they were a good player. The two dont neccessarily match up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted October 22, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Even the Premier League's most successful managers over the past 20 years (Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho) have been poached from other leagues. Who has been the most successful manager in English football that has worked their way up over the past 20 years? King Kenny took over the best team in the country when he first walked into management. Â Has there ever been an English premier league-winning manager? Christ, there hasn't, has there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 22, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 Even the Premier League's most successful managers over the past 20 years (Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho) have been poached from other leagues. Who has been the most successful manager in English football that has worked their way up over the past 20 years? King Kenny took over the best team in the country when he first walked into management. Â Has there ever been an English premier league-winning manager? Christ, there hasn't, has there? Â I think Roy Evans is probably the most successful English manager of the PL era. Finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd between 95-98. I can't think of a better feat by an Englishman since. I guess Harry Redknapp would be next with this Tottenham finishes. Â Looking at the English England managers over the last 20 years, Venables, Hoddle, Keegan, McLaren and Hodgson have won next to nothing between them. Â In terms of managers who've climbed their way up to the top, I think you're talking about older managers. Redknapp again. Allardyce and Warnock I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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