Official ROH Discussion Thread

[edgecrusher]

I am of the opinion that ROH DESPERATELY needs a third title. Or maybe even a fourth. SO MANY matches in the promotion currently have no point whatsoever, because just looking at the wrestlers we know they're never going to hold the World Title, and the tag division by definition has a limited number of people who can go for it.

Edited September 16, 2006 by edgecrusher

[HBAndy]

I am of the opinion that ROH DESPERATELY needs a third title. SO MANY matches in the promotion currently have no point whatsoever, because just looking at the wrestlers we know they're never going to hold the World Title, and the tag division by definition has a limited number of people who can go for it.

I agree. I hate the pointless matches, like the millions of Matt Sydal vs. Christopher Daniels matches and the random boring matches they seem to have in the first 2 or 3 matches on each show. They're pointless and I feel like an idiot for watching them and why am I watching them wrestle each other for no reason.

[Adam G]

Do they still do the top five rankings? Surely that gives reason to each match?

[HBAndy]

Do they still do the top five rankings? Surely that gives reason to each match?

They've stopped the top 5 rankings. That was all boohockey anyway. They had the crappy contender's ring too and the petition thing, and they've tried in the past with the Field of Honor tournament (which I quite enjoyed), maybe they should bring that back.

[GIB]

Are they still doing those pointless 4-way matches? I'm still way back at Dissension, when I catch up I don't want any of those matches on my screen again. Ever.

[edgecrusher]

Do they still do the top five rankings? Surely that gives reason to each match?

Basically, they were doing it, then they started doing stuff like giving Delirious title matches after about four wins total in the company, and someone obviously realised that this made absolutely no sense whatsoever.Essentially, Gabe's intent to book ridiculously long title reigns this year completely killed all credibility for the rankings system, because they had to keep putting up bowling pins for the champs to knock down (Danielson and GenNEXT in particular).

[gadge]

Results from last night in the Grand Ballroom of the Manhattan Center in new York City, from PWinsider.com

 

Click to Show/Hide

We are live at the Ring of Honor Manhattan Center debut in New York City.

 

Pre-Show Notes;

 

The line to get into the venue runs all the way around the corner, past former ROH venue the New Yorker.

 

ROH will return here 12/23 for Final Battle 2006.

 

Keith Elliot Greenberg, who co-wrote Ric Flair's book and former referee Billy Caputo, who now works for the New York State Athletic Commission are at the show.

 

The NYC fire marshal had ROH rearrange some of the seating before the venue was opened to the crowd.

 

The ROH ring crew are pretty much exhausted as they spent the better part of last night and early morning breaking down last night's outdoor show in CT and got little sleep before traveling to NYC for the set up today.

They delayed the start of the show for 25 minutes to allow everyone a chance to get into the venue.

 

They acknowledged the NOAH stars in attendance.

 

Davey Richards defeated Jack Evans via submission in a hot opener. The story was Evans using his quickness and fast aerial moves to try and outclass Richards. Richards nailed Evans with a powerbomb and locked on a submission for the win.

 

The entire ROH roster came to ringside for a special ceremony honoring Bruno Sammartino. Fans chanted Sammartino and gave him a standing ovation. Bruno joked most of the fans here weren't even born when he retired. Sammartino said he was 71 years old and said he wrestled for 23 years around the world, noting 20 tours of Japan. He said he loved wrestling but when a new promotion took over the sport, he didn't like the way the sport turned and expressed his feelings to dear ears. He said that recently he watched some of the ROH DVDs and he said he was impressed by some of the talent in the company. The crowd chanted ROH. He said that he believes that the dedication of these young wrestlers and the talent assembled he sees the type of matches he used to have in his day. He said ROH is going to grow and he wishes them the best because he'd love to see what he considers wrestling to come back to the forefront. He said there are a lot more to enjoy tonight and thanked the fans for appreciating legitimately good talent.

 

As everyone left, Samoa Joe and NOAH's Takeshi Morishima bumped each other and ended up in a pull apart brawl inside the ring. That looks to be a match here for ROH's December return, but I'm just guessing.

 

Adam Pearce pinned Delirious with a piledriver after Shane Hagadorn tripped Delirious while he was on the top rope. Crowd was into Delirious' wackiness. Pearce announced Hagadorn was now his official man servant. They hugged.

 

Jimmy Jacobs defeated Christopher Daniels and Colt Cabana in a Three-Way. The story was Jacob's manager Lacey wanted him to work with Cabana, who she's sleeping with. After a bunch of spots that saw Jacobs get the worst of it, he ended up pinning Colt. Lacey was furious. The idea is Jacobs is the sap who's in love with Lacey and will do anything for her even though she obviously doesn't care about his feelings and is only out for herself.

 

ROH Commissioner Jim Cornette and the Briscoes came to the ring. He said that he's had issues with Homicide but he thought everything was settled when he explained his point of view. Cornette said that he wasn't going to let someone who was in the business for 15 minutes disrespect him. Cornette said he loves ROH, the wrestlers and the fans except Homicide and anyone who stands with him against Cornette.

 

Cornette said he came out with the Briscoes in case Homicide tries to attack him like a coward. He said he had an announcement and wanted to know who was on his side. Most of the crowd sided with Homicide. Cornette thanked the fans who sided with him. He then went off on NYC as a place to live and the fans, saying New York was a microcosm of everything that was wrong with the world.

 

Cornette said that he promised Homicide a shot at the ROH title. He said that since everyone loves Homicide, he'll get a ROH title shot here when ROH returns in December...if he wins tonight. Cornette said that if he doesn't win, Homicide will have to wait for next year to get a title shot. He pointed out Homicide promised that if he didn't win a ROH title by the end of the year, he'd leave ROH and we'll see him slink out the back door, so he better win tonight.

 

Cornette then told the Briscoes they better take care of Homicide tonight.

 

Homicide and Samoa Joe defeated The Brisoces in an awesome match when Homicide pinned Jay Briscoe with a CopKilla. Jim Cornette came out and said he'll get his title shot in December, but he promises it'll be a long time to get there, implying he'll try to have Homicide taken out before that show.

 

The Kings of Wrestling, Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli defeated Austin Aries and Roderick Strong to win the ROH Tag Team championships.

 

Pro Wrestling NOAH Global Honored Crown champion Naomichi Marufuji pinned Nigel McGuinness in an off the charts match, the first GHC title bout held in the United States.

 

ROH champion Bryan Danielson forced KENTA to tap out to Cattle Mutilation in a great match.

 

Danielson has now been ROH World Champion for 1 year.

[gadge]

FIP IMPACT OF HONOR - Orlando, Fl, June 10th 2006

 

I picked this up in a 25% off sale after much shilling from ROH. It's far from the 'ROH style' show they billed it as, though.

 

The crowd is about 150-200, of which about 90% are opposite the hard camera, with two rows on one neighbouring side, the FIP mobile studio opposite them and just the cameraman on the camera side. That said, lighting is good, and having a visible crowd of more than about 25 people makes the show a lot more watchable than the couple of times I've tried FIP shows from early 2005 (one had Punk vs Danielson 2/3 falls, which would have been great with a crowd...) or, say, the match put on the ROH In Your Face DVD from the show the night before called 'Chasing the Dragon'.

 

Sal Rinauro vs Canadian Cougar

 

I read recently that Canadian Cougar is Tony Kozina in a mask. This is a reasonable indy opener with no clear heel or face, the main story of the match is that Sal used to be FIP Tag Team Champions with Spanky, and repeatedly goes for Sliced Bread #2 until he finally hits it for the win. Not bad at all.

 

There's then a promo segment (everything is done in front of the live crowd in FIP, that's what the mobile studio is for) with the head of DP Associates, Dave Prazak, and ROH World Champion and FIP Heavyweight Champion Bryan Danielson. As Danielson is defending the ROH Title here and not conducting FIP business, he gives Prazak the night off (which means he commentates with Jerrod David in a heel colour commentator role rather than head play-by-play as he is in ROH). Prazak then cuts a promo on former FIP champion Homicide before he leaves. Prazak's OTT music is cool in an awful way.

 

Alex Pourteau vs Seth Delay

 

Pourteau is an old school type guy by the looks of it, though I've not seen him before, and Delay is a skinny indy kid. They match together surprisingly well though. Delay pays for two big crash and burn spots by being pinned off a really good looking powerbomb. Short match, fun while it lasted.

 

Four Way Fray: Kory Chavis vs Chasyn Rance vs Kenny King vs Ryan Drago

 

Rance is the only one of these guys I've heard of before, as he does jobs for TNA and I saw him in IPW:UK once (plus he's been in FIP since the start). Four Way Fray is elimination style, all men in the ring at once, and usually much shorter than ROH Four Corner matches.

 

The young and generic looking Drago is the first eliminated after a distraction by Chavis' manager So Cal Val, he goes after her only for Rance to make the save for no clear reason, then Chavis gets a cobra/camel clutch variation for the submission. There's then a couple of minutes of good action in the three way portion until Chavis eliminates King with a vertical suplex into a front slam, which gets a nice round of boos. A minute or two after that Rance reverses the same move into an inside cradle for the overall victory. Rance looked better here than I've seen before and gets a very nice babyface pop for the finish. Val then throws a fit at Chavis for not getting the job done despite getting two eliminations. I enjoyed this overall.

 

Davey Richards vs Shingo Takagi

 

Ooh, names. This is billed as FIP/ROH vs Dragon Gate. I was kind of disappointed overall, as they have an athletic style match but nothing really left an impression on me. Not bad, but not worth buying the DVD for or anything. Takagi wins with the bloodfall, the first time I've seen Richards take a pinfall under Gabe's booking so far.

 

Steve Madison vs Erick Stevens

 

This is a 'Grudge Match', as they apparently used to be tag team partners under the cool name of The Miracle and Violence Connection. Last time I saw FIP, I thnk I remember Madison being built up as running James Gibson out of the promotion (pending a Gibson comeback) so obviously it wasn't a feud that transported him up the card. Stevens rushes the ring at the start and unloads with a flurry of punches, which grabs my attention. Intensity, that's nice.

 

As the match unfolds, Madison takes control more by wrestling, while Stevens does fiery brawling comebacks. It's a good combination that kept me interested in a match between two guys I really don't know. There's a ref bump near the end, and Stevens has the visual pinfall with a Doctor Bomb, then Chasyn Rance comes out to seemingly help revive the referee but turns heel and aligns himself with Madison, who scores the pin with a piledriver. A surprising turn that one, the sort of thing that makes me wonder if I want to see where things go next.

 

The Heartbreak Express with So Cal Val vs Masked Fipper #13 and Super FIP machine

 

Ugh, ugh, ugh. The Heartbreak Express gimmick and matches do absolutely nothing for me, and most of this is promo time. Skip...

 

ROH World Title Match: Bryan Danielson vs Colt Cabana

 

Do not go into this one expecting an ROH style match. However, as an interesting aside to the ROH matches, this is pretty fun. It's very old school British style, with a lot of the first half of the match being World of Sport comedy stuff, and Danielson and Cabana are very good at it. Danielson in particular does some bumbling fool spots he'd never do in ROH. In the end, Danielson finally gets a control segment and does some of his ROH routine, with Prazak willing him on in the commentary which adds something. Prazak even gets in a line about "a paying crowd in Orlando" which made me chuckle.

 

The finish comes when Cabana hits a lariat for a three count, but the referee sees a split second afterwards that Danielson got to the ropes at 2 and three quarters and decides the match must continue. Danielson then gets a three count of his own from a roaring elbow, and while Cabana had his foot on the ropes, Danielson removes it after the three count and the decision stands. The crowd doesn't like that, and while a second referee comes from backstage it's only a tease. Cabana throws a post-match "can't believe i lost like that" fit reminiscent of the 100th show, which ties everything together nicely. Do I want to see their FIP Heavyweight Title match at the next FIP show now...?

 

ROH Tag Team Title Match: Austin Aries and Roderick Strong vs Jay Fury and Jerelle Clark

 

The iMPACT jobber team are collectively known as 'Fast and the Furious' in FIP, and Aries and Strong have just dropped the 'Generation Next' name in ROH. This is the only match on the show that would properly fit into an ROH show. It's actually an above average Aries and Strong defense, probably better than the first two Briscoes ones, if you're prepared to buy into Fury and Clark. Aries and Strong come out to the Depeche Mode version of 'Personal Jesus' instead of the Marilyn Manson one, which is awesome.

 

This is full of fun double teams and even results in some instant replays being busted out by the production. Fury and Clark kick out of plenty of Aries and Strong's trademark stuff and get some close nearfalls of their own, but Aries and Strong don't have to go as far as the half nelson backbreakers/450 splash combo, instead retaining the titles with the missile dropkick/powerbomb combo.

 

Good match.

 

Overall, the show runs just 2 hours, 19 minutes, so it's a lot shorter than ROH DVD releases, but it is cheaper at $15. It doesn't live up to the 'ROH style' billing, but it's kinda fun, and as I bought it in a sale I didn't feel offended at spending money on it.

Edited September 17, 2006 by gadgetboy

[Adam G]

As everyone left, Samoa Joe and NOAH's Takeshi Morishima bumped each other and ended up in a pull apart brawl inside the ring. That looks to be a match here for ROH's December return, but I'm just guessing.

Ooohh, that'll be a good'en.

[Oliver]

FIP comes across as a poor man's ROH spirnkled with some TNA jobbers (which isn't all bad because I think guys like Jay Fury and Jerelle Clark are talented) and The Heratbreak Express which is a very very bad thing. The show reviewed above sounds OK and if I could turn back time, I would have included it on one of my ROH orders. Maybe I'll check out FIP in the future, they're 2 releases following this one don't tempt me in the slightest, but its a good start that they're now releasing their shows more up to date.

[Flash]

Anyone heard in what condition danielson was b4 and after the show.What kind of reception did hero and claudio get from winning the belts.

[rattol]

Its not Fair, Aries and Strong lost the Tag Titles. Whats even more unfair is that The Briscoes dont have them now

[edgecrusher]

Anyone heard in what condition danielson was b4 and after the show.What kind of reception did hero and claudio get from winning the belts.

What show did that happen in?I would imagine Hero and Claudio got booed to hell and back. Deservedly, for both the right and the wrong reasons.

[TildeGuy~!]

Anyone heard in what condition danielson was b4 and after the show.What kind of reception did hero and claudio get from winning the belts.

What show did that happen in?I would imagine Hero and Claudio got booed to hell and back. Deservedly, for both the right and the wrong reasons.

At Saturdays Show. Which Headline Brian Danielson Vs KENTA

[steamroller]

They got a pretty big pop i hear. Claudio is very over anyway.