Official ROH Discussion Thread

[King of my World]

I agree with the Blood Generation vs Do Fixer match not being a match of the year contender. Fun is the best way to describe it, alot of nice moves, but I didnt really care who won and I dont feel compelled to check out more Dragon Gate because of it. I quite liked Danielson vs Strong III, but feel their match at 'This Means War' is their best match. I thought Danielson's match with Lance Storm was incredibly boring for some reason though, and I thought I would enjoy that much more than his match with Strong on the show before. I think that Danielson should drop the title soon because I think he has defended it too many times and is running through the same challengers. I ordered 'Ring of Homicide', 'Destiny', 'Chi-Town Struggle' and 'In Your Face' earlier today. Also definitely going to order Death Before Dishonor IV as soon as its available. I will post my thoughts on the shows once I have watched them.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Have to agree the This Means War match was easily the best Dragon/Strong.It's no coincidence it was the shortest either. Their matches have got progressively worse since then.Going to watch the Storm match tomorrow so I'll see if I like it.

[edgecrusher]

I could see Danielson dropping A title in the near future, probably back to Nigel McGuinness, but the problem is there aren't that many legit title contenders in ROH, as in people who can carry the company. Danielson, regardless of estimations of his overall talent, does at least have a complete package. Barring Austin Aries, who is likely to be holding the tag titles well into the next century at this rate (I can't think of ANY team barring the Briscoes who could take the belts of them, and they've beaten the Briscoes three times already. Or is it four?), and Nigel McGuinness, I can't think of anyone who would work.If they have KENTA for a decent length of time, a short KENTA title reign would probably go over well. Although, if you ask me, they're grooming Davey Richards to be the next true contender. I've already commented that ROH's title situation is beginning to stagnate, in that HHH title-damaging manner rather than building. However, there's been one title change this year. There could be another before the end. I reckon Gabe's going to have either GenNEXT or Bryan Danielson hold their titles all year long, but not both. Time will tell. The Briscoes either need to win the titles soon or lose their heat. You can only lose so many times, competitively or otherwise, before the fans see you as a loser.

[King of my World]

I could see Danielson dropping A title in the near future, probably back to Nigel McGuinness, but the problem is there aren't that many legit title contenders in ROH, as in people who can carry the company. Danielson, regardless of estimations of his overall talent, does at least have a complete package. Barring Austin Aries, who is likely to be holding the tag titles well into the next century at this rate (I can't think of ANY team barring the Briscoes who could take the belts of them, and they've beaten the Briscoes three times already. Or is it four?), and Nigel McGuinness, I can't think of anyone who would work.If they have KENTA for a decent length of time, a short KENTA title reign would probably go over well. Although, if you ask me, they're grooming Davey Richards to be the next true contender. I've already commented that ROH's title situation is beginning to stagnate, in that HHH title-damaging manner rather than building. However, there's been one title change this year. There could be another before the end. I reckon Gabe's going to have either GenNEXT or Bryan Danielson hold their titles all year long, but not both. Time will tell. The Briscoes either need to win the titles soon or lose their heat. You can only lose so many times, competitively or otherwise, before the fans see you as a loser.

I agree with all of this. It seems like they are padding out the title defences by giving them a load of challengers who you no will not win the title. It seems like RoH are determined to book long term champs just for the sake of it. And The Briscoes are starting to look a joke, they also lost three times in their feud with AJ Styles & Amazing Red, and three times against the Second City Saints. They also lost numerous times to Samoa Joe in their feud with him (Although to be fair they did defeat him in a couple of tag title defences)I thinka Kenta reign would work, would bring something different into the main event mix and an air of unpredictability. Edited August 20, 2006 by King of my World

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Danielson, regardless of estimations of his overall talent, does at least have a complete package.

I diagree, he's a good worker, but some of his heel act looks, well, just an act. A lot of his character work isn't believable- hus 'aggression' in the third Strong match just looked so fake. When I watch Steve Austin I believe he's a violent bastard, with Dragon it's the opposite. His look doesn't help him, as he really doesn't look all that threatening.Plus, he needs to start carving out a style of his own. When he wrestles Strong, he wrestles as the cocky heel against the hungry upstart. Yet when he wrestles Rave he wrestles as the face against the dastardly heel. When he wrestles Romero, he starts wrestling a semi-shooty type sort of match, going for things that he's never gone for. He needs to get his own match style. And he needs to sort out his match content- some of his heel stuff works for a while, but 'I have until 5' quickly gets boring if I hear it every match.He's a very good worker, but I'm not sure if he'll ever get to the next level.

I can't think of ANY team barring the Briscoes who could take the belts of them,

I think the Kings Of Wrestling will be champions in a month or so.

Although, if you ask me, they're grooming Davey Richards to be the next true contender.

It's pretty likely, but I think the guy needs todevelop a character first, as he really isn't all that interesting to me. Look what a decent character has done for someone like Jimmy Jacobs, or Jimmy Rave.I think with the ROH Title situation, Gabe's done most of the matches too quickly. Every show Dragon is defending against some undercard guy, problem is he'll give a Steve Corino or Chris Sabin as much as a AJ Styles or Austin Aries. There doesn't appear to be that much of a hierachy- the Top 5 is meaningless, since everybody seems to get a shot at the world title regardless.The Briscoes really aren't that good, so I wouldn't complain should they lose the belts.

[edgecrusher]

I diagree, he's a good worker, but some of his heel act looks, well, just an act. A lot of his character work isn't believable- hus 'aggression' in the third Strong match just looked so fake. When I watch Steve Austin I believe he's a violent bastard, with Dragon it's the opposite. His look doesn't help him, as he really doesn't look all that threatening.

Well, I disagree, but at least he HAS an act, which is more than can be said for a lot of his theoretical contenders.

Plus, he needs to start carving out a style of his own. When he wrestles Strong, he wrestles as the cocky heel against the hungry upstart. Yet when he wrestles Rave he wrestles as the face against the dastardly heel.

Not quite. Against Rave he plays tweener, playing up the cheeky bastard side. There's no way he plays face, though. He still cheats with impunity, he just gets cheered for it because ANYONE would get cheered against Rave.

I think the Kings Of Wrestling will be champions in a month or so.

You think? I can't see it. I've seen nothing from Claudio or Chris Hero to suggest they'd have a CHANCE against Aries/Wodewick. Without proper build up a sudden title change would get shat on by the ROH faithful. The Briscoes have the heat from the crowd, they really do think the Briscoes could do it (for now, though how long that lasts is anyone's guess). The Kings would be mega-heat champions, though, no doubt.

It's pretty likely, but I think the guy needs todevelop a character first, as he really isn't all that interesting to me. Look what a decent character has done for someone like Jimmy Jacobs, or Jimmy Rave.

Meh. Wodewick's gone without one and he's part of GenNEXT's title reign. I'd prefer it, but I think Gabe's more interested in what happens between the ropes than out of it, although his recent booking suggests he wants to have people with all the tools at the top. You might not like what Danielson does, but at least he's COMPETENT in all areas. Most members of the ROH locker room couldn't cut a promo if their lives depended on it.

I think with the ROH Title situation, Gabe's done most of the matches too quickly. Every show Dragon is defending against some undercard guy, problem is he'll give a Steve Corino or Chris Sabin as much as a AJ Styles or Austin Aries. There doesn't appear to be that much of a hierachy- the Top 5 is meaningless, since everybody seems to get a shot at the world title regardless.

They've stopped doing the Top 5 videos, I think for this reason exactly. It became obvious it was meaningless and there was no logic to the positioning. I've said it before, they could do with booking one or two LEGITIMATE squashes for the champs, to properly gradiate their locker room. The fans already know who is and isn't a contender, so it's not like it's going to hurt anyone, but it WOULD build the champs up. That, or go a few shows without title defenses, and have the wrestlers visibly do something to earn a title shot.

The Briscoes really aren't that good, so I wouldn't complain should they lose the belts.

That's not the point. The Briscoes are over, beloved by the crowd, and pretty much GenNEXT's only legitimate challengers at this point. Irish Airborne seem to be getting built up to have a go, but apparently the reaction to them eliminating the Briscoes in the last scramble tag was pretty negative, so that's not going to work yet. Plus they've got history, and I think the fans are ready for a change. It's a pity they lost Shelley, because The Embassy would and by all rights should have been the ones to dethrone GenNEXT. Wonder if he got sick of essentially going nowhere in the company? Edited August 20, 2006 by edgecrusher

[edgecrusher]

We move on, now, to Throwdown, a rather reliable but perhaps slightly disappointing show. A couple of matches looked better on paper than they turned out. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Sodom and Gomora, the DVD program isn’t being a fool at me. And like Mr. T, I pity the foolish DVD player, that doesn’t play DVDs. What?Okay. Recap-o-thon. Prediction: Nothing new barring a recap of the brutality of KENTA getting killed last show. Oh no, I’m wrong. Shot of Jimmy Jacobs getting murdered by BJ Whitmer. Little advert that Whitmer and Jacobs will both get a shot at Daniels, with a plug wonder of how far they’ll go in the main event. Sure enough, recaps of the happenings last show, tag title match and World Title match. Good video package. Nicely cut together. Points out that there hasn’t been a single title change in 2006 so far. Then it moves onto a highlight of the three champs in ROH. So, I’m wrong. Entirely new stuff.Finally, we have a promo with Colt Cabana cutting a promo about how he’s climbed his way up from the bottom and he beat the best ROH has to offer. Um.... when? I seem to remember him beating hardly anyone in a bunch of comedy matches, then getting beaten by GenNEXT. Hardly a sterling rise to the top of the pack, and what does it say about ROH’s talent depth if it really takes just over a month to go from the bottom to the top? Good promo, but Cabana the performer isn’t even remotely worthy to hold a title in ROH. They then advertise that the next recap is going to be all about Homicide. Seems they are going to do stuff with these recaps. This promo builds the match well, but the whole theory of Colt working his way up from the bottom is laughable since it was just six shows ago (or seven depending on how you count it) that he got beaten by Danielson.Anyway, we’re into the actual show now. And Shane Hagadorn has a promo with the other students standing around behind him looking... erm... crap. Thankfully, Shane sends the three losers off. Okay. He’s not a brilliant talker but at least he’s unlikeable and doesn’t stumble.FIRST MATCH: Shane Hagadorn/Keith Walker Vs. Irish AirborneWheeeeeee, the Airborne are back. This is definitely going to be a high energy opener to the show, which is pretty much what you want to get the crowd all pumped up. Hagadorn’s got a good thing going with the ref taking off his entrance shirt. Irish Airborne are all spunky and energetic. It’s the Airborne, what else is to be expected? I hear they’re getting pushed pretty heavily of late, I don’t think that’s a good idea, although they are definitely well over with the crowd. There’s a sort-of handshake from all concerned, and we’re off. Apparently Keith Walker is called ‘The Human Massacre’. Errr... okay. Apparently he’s been touring with NOAH, so he can’t be that bad.Lots of wristlock play to open with. Not very athletic or flippy, either, just back and forth technical stuff between Dave and Haggie. Not long before Dave’s pulling out all sorts of springboardy arm draggy stuff, as well as an absolutely beautiful quebrada from Dave Christ. Really high and hitting nicely. Keith, hee hee, he’s called Keith, gets tagged in and he does the power monster thing with a spinebuster and corner to corner belly to belly. Keith continues the massacre, battering Jake with lots of aggro power offence, very different to the usual ROH fare, which is a good thing of course. To be honest it’s the same thing Hagadorn has to offer. He’s got NOTHING that’s ‘beautiful’ or even ‘pretty’, just a lot of basic heelish offence, and it works. He’s got a way to go but Hagadorn could well end up with a permanent position on the undercard. Anyway, this short opener ends with Hagadorn’s death via jumping kick/DVD onto knees. Hagadorn bitches amusingly afterwards. “He pulled my tights. He pulled my hair.” Funny, especially since Hagadorn has hardly any hair in the first place.*1/2Embassy promo, Rave is still pissed about Richards, and he’s going to go for him in the four corners match it appears. Haze is there, too, which is excellent. Gotta love the Haze. If they can’t have the Shell maester they gotta have Daizee.SECOND MATCH: Nigel McGuinness Vs. Conrad Kennedy IIIMcGuinness looks a bit rough here. Think Strong might have blacked his eye on that running kick from the previous show. I vaguely know Kennedy, but not well enough to think of him as more than a bowling pin for Nigel to knock over. Obviously the fans know him better, though, from the heavy ‘CKIII’ chant that starts. This is answered by a louder ‘LET’S GO NIGEL’ chant, which is rendered amusing by CK3 walking past the camera really close, looking out of the ring (at a fan, I assume) and saying simply “I hate you”. Well, I liked it. I mark for all kinds of random stuff. The dreaded duelling chants get going about a minute in, but it’s like the fans are on speed or something, as they just BARREL through these duelling chants. Hell, at least they’re doing it with energy. I do like Nigel’s hammerlock front face take down. Lots of the usual McGuinness technical stuff, playing around with headscissors, hammerlocks oh my and other stuff. He gets some heat for stealing Danielson’s ‘I have ‘til five’ shout. CK3 takes the early lead by forcing rope break number 1 off a sharpshooter. McGuinness nails the back kick/forearm to chest headstand counter again, seems he’s settled on that as his favourite in ROH, it definitely gets the best reaction and it’s my favourite, so I’m not going to complain. CK3 hits a frickin’ weird hammerlock and crossface double knees backbreaker thingy. The first ‘well I haven’t seen that before’ move of the night for me. Nigel’s bounce lariat is countered for the first time that I’ve seen, into Kennedy’s other weird hammerlock neckbreaker thingy for a near fall. As you may have noticed, CK3 has various ‘thingies’. Nigel finally nails the bounce lariat and gets a very close near fall on it. The fans definitely buy it as a legitimate finisher. Nigel goes for his headstand counter, but it’s countered, CK3 goes up, gets cut off, Tower of London ends the match.Good stuff. Felt a bit short, though I don’t know the actual runtime. Action packed, never a dull moment. Very entertaining and a good second match on the card. **1/2THIRD MATCH: Briscoes Vs. Colt Cabana and Ace SteelHmm. Kinda random. I’m told that Cabana and Steel used to be part of the same group a ways back (thanks LL). Should be good. I like three of the four guys, at least. Introduced as representing the Second City Saints, and Ace does look completely insane tonight. I mean he really does look like he’s fucking lost it. Scary ass eyes. The Briscoes are as aggro-scuzz as ever, all punkish and pissed. They’ve lost the slogans on their tights and are just wearing nice black shorts now. Oh, match is on.Cabana/Steel jump the Briscoes off the handshake and hammer them. Steel pulls a springboard missile dropkick. Holy shit. Had no idea he could do a move like that. Doesn’t seem the athletic type. Saints get some nice tag moves off, I guess they’re from the old playbook though of course I have no idea if this is so. Jay Briscoe has a good run off a hot tag before the SCS take over again. Blind tag gets Mark in charge for his offence. I agree with the commentators that the Briscoes look better than ever. Having watched the ‘Tag Team Excellence’ DVD, the improvements in image and ring work are pretty obvious. Cabana wrestles this one almost entirely serious. The slingshot double stomp always gets a good wince out of me. Eventually Ace Steel gets the hot tag for the patented ROH double dive spot. Okay it’s not patented but it’s something that ALWAYS happens in ROH tags. This time it’s a body press and suicide dive. Steel’s feeling athletic today, with diving knees and twisting sentons ahoy-hoy. Mark finally cracks his skull open with the saito suplex/exploder/uranage/whatever random name the commentators want to call it this week. The Briscoes oopsie and miss the springboard doomsday device, but Steel covers well, leading to hot tag and Colt hitting his flying assholes and swinging fisherman’s suplex for a near fall. Ace goes to powerbomb Jay, but he fights free, hits the Jay Driller, Colt breaks it up, gets dumped to the outside, and Steel gets wiped out by the spiked Jay Driller, which is probably the best tag finisher in the company for ease of use and immediate impact. Good stuff. Pretty fast paced, mostly move based wrestling, helped by a hot crowd.**1/2Briscoes cut a promo about their general intent to be tag team champions. The time is coming, they say, for them to be tag champions again. Well, statistical probability suggests if they keep on trying they’ll win in the end. I’m really not sure how ROH can book them in such a way that they won’t seem like transitional champs until the rematch, though. Aries and Stwong have already beaten them twice, after all, and in successive nights, too.FOURTH MATCH: Rave Vs. Richards Vs. Joe Vs. DeliriousRave is out first, complete with toilet shower. Nana gets the mic and cuts a promo... and I’ve really got no idea what he’s going on about. Never mind. Richards is out second. His eye looks a bit better here. Out comes Delirious and he’s running around with toilet roll in his mouth and Rave is freaked out by him and Davey Richards doesn’t seem to know what to make of him. Then out comes Joe, and it’s like there’s no-one else in the ring. Of course, Joe’s status in TNA probably helps him out a fair bit here. Joe has fun handshaking with Delirious, Davey Richards doesn’t seem sure of what to do with him. Rave’s used to him by now so just shakes his fingers and walks off. Opening bell goes and Delious crazies out, including grabbing someone’s hat and chucking it in the ring. It’s always great watching how the wrestlers react to Delirious’ antics. Richards wants Joe, but he starts out with Delirious. Richards knocks Delirious over on a shoulder block and Delirious just lies there on his back pedalling his legs in the air, which gets a bewildered frown from super-serious Richards. Joe tags himself in, and just as they’re getting hot for Joe vs. Richards Rave tags himself in and the fans rip him a new one. So Rave goes at Richards again... and promptly gets his head kicked in. Delirious tags back in, and Joe tags himself in at Richards’ expense. Oh, man, I fucking love Delirious. He’s especially golden here. When they finally do get going, Joe shreds him. Joe shakes the ropes when Delirious goes up top, but he doesn’t fall, and Joe says to him “you’re supposed to fall”, but Delirious shakes his head and isn’t having any of it. Yay. I wish I had a pet Delirious to go mad in one corner of my room. Richards and Joe finally face off against each other, and Joe comes out on top, since Richards’ big thing is strikes and Joe can just hit him harder. And does. They do some of the nu-Japanese action that Joe often does with strike heavy opponents, and it works nicely. A full one on one between Joe and Richards would be fucking brutal, of that there’s no doubt. Basic flow is as follows: Richards wants Joe, Rave wants Richards, Delirious doesn’t know where he is let alone who he wants, and Joe’s just after a fight, like usual. There’s some good pacing and interplay here. Joe fucking KILLS Richards with a barrage of right hand jabs, and Richards just collapses, then gets his head stood on and face washed. Talk about an ROH initiation. The fans call ‘ONE MORE TIME’, and Joe does indeed kick Richards’ face off one more time. One or two short dead periods, but the majority is very entertaining, and it isn’t the usual not selling anything fest that these matches often devolve into. It’s long and there’s plenty of time taken for them to sell things properly. Delirious gets some great offense on Joe in the endgame, countering the STJoe and soccer kicking him in the face and stuff. Rave nearly pins Delirious on spear/gutbuster/DDT, but Richards breaks it up and takes Rave out with his handspring reverse kick, Joe comes for him but Richards nails the missile dropkick to handspring power up, then nails Joe with the big elbow and suicide dive’s Rave into oblivion. Richards kills Rave with kicks back in the ring, including a Tajiri-esque kick to the back of the head, but Delirious breaks it up before Joe comes in to attack Richards. They exchange a bunch of strikes before Delirious saves Joe from a german, then Delirious takes out Richards and himself with a crossbody to the floor. Nana then gets death kicked by Joe, he goes to choke Rave, then Delirious nails Joe with his Shadows Over Hell back splash and locks the Cobra Stretch on Jimmy Rave for the tapout! DELIRIOUS WINS! Never saw that coming. Seems that Daizee fucked that one up, and she makes a sharp exit. Rave was gonna lose either way, though.Joe is pissed about the outcome, but shakes Delirious’ hand nonetheless. I loved this. I might be slightly too kind on the star rating, but hey, I loved the match. Lots of great action, mostly brilliant pacing, nice storyline development and teasing for future single matches. Yes, it had a PURPOSE!**** Briscoes have something to say in intermission, but I’m not sure what. I imagine they’re going to attack Wodewick in the main event. Claudio Castagnoli and Necro Butcher ramraid at intermission. Claudio cuts a promo on... well, everything and everyone. Adam Pearce then charges the ring, and it’s Pearce vs. Necro Falls Count anywhere. FIFTH MATCH: Pearce Vs. NecroPearce pulls a fucking nuts tope that nearly goes right over Necro’s head and threatens to send him sailing into the front rows. Fortunately, I guess, Necro’s head breaks his forward momentum. Necro sentons Pearce over the guard rail, the throws chairs at him and hits his signature chair-assisted bodyslam. Necro applies a figure four leglock, of all things, out on the concrete, which remains until Pearce gets ahold of a chair and cracks Necro with it. Out in the entrance ramp, Pearce fights back by blocking a chair shot and punching it back into Necro’s face. Niiiiice. Pearce piledriver is blocked and he gets body dropped on the concrete. Necro them collars Pearce with a chair and rams him into the ringpost, while Claudio Castagnoli stands around looking pleased and pompous. Pearce tosses Necro over the rail into a bunch of chairs, then drags him back over and throws him on the concrete. A couple of chairs get set up, and one or other is taking a sick bump onto them. It’s not Pearce, as Necro hits a belly to back suplex to get control. A big ‘NECRO BUTCHER’ chant starts off. Necro sets the chairs back to back, then tries to put Pearce onto them, only to be shot into the ropes, then sidewalk slammed onto both chairs. OW. That looked fucking SICK. In the manner of ‘not walking for a while’ sick. Pearce has a win on Necro, which results in CC running in to break up the count, resulting in a DQ. Bit of beatdown, then the lights die and Homicide’s music hits. DYING TIME.SIXTH MATCH: Homicide Vs. Claudio CastagnoliOut he comes and he already looks pissed. It’s all Homicide as they open up, until CC ducks a baseball slide and slams Homicide into the guard rail a couple of times to get his first offense in. Homicide brings the hardcore first with a chair shot to the face. He rips off one of the ROH guard rail coverings, positions it against another rail and whips CC into it, sending him flying into the crowd. Smart. The fans grab it and use it as a makeshift banner. CC keeps getting the odd move in, but every time Homicide fires back and overwhelms him. The fans are getting a lot better at doing Homicide’s signature tongue trill. CC counters a throw into the ropes with a flip into the ropes (that looked weird) goes for a monkey flip but Homicide flips out. CC ducks a clothesline and rolls out, Homicide then rolls over him with the tope con hilo. Homicide gets mega pissed when a cross body only gets two, and nearly goes for the referee with a chair. Claudio gets the better of a spot in the turnbuckle with a reverse calf branding, then hits a seated tornado european uppercut and takes control. CC is a lot less spectacular and energetic than Homicide, as you might well expect, hitting him with a lot of technical moves and grounded offence. A sleeper spot leads to a brief counter from Homicide and a pair of sleepers, before CC goes for a flapjack and Homicide thinks its a backdrop, leading to him VERY nearly landing flat on his head. I think he got scared on that one, from the way he acts immediately afterwards. Homicide gets a proper move in with a top rope hurracanrana, then lays in the right hands and a much cleaner back drop. The fans seem to lose it, though, and just go very quiet. No idea why. They come back to life for a top rope DDT from Homicide, but it only gets a two count. Claudio gets back in with an enziguri while Homicide’s on the top, and an iconoclasm for a near fall of his own. Claudio hits the Asterbury Water Slide, which must be the LEAST effective finisher in the company, for a two count, then tries a crossed arms powerbomb. Homicide hits the 3 Amigos suplexes for a brief ‘EDDIE’ chant, then gets a near fall off a frog splash. Fortunately there’s no more ‘EDDIE’ chants, so I don’t get that unpleasant ‘cashing in on his heat’ feel that’s stained WWE TV for so long. CC batters Homicide with european uppercuts, Homicide hits the death lariat and it’s over. He is the CZW killer. Weird match. Feels like it should have been better than it was, but a combination of slightly weird heat from the crowd and a couple of dead spots lessen its shine a bit, in my opinion.***SEVENTH MATCH: Danielson Vs. Jimmy Jacobs Vs. BJ WhitmerJimmy Jacobs is out and I mark like a bitch. Motherfucker. I know he’s got no chance of winning but damn I want him to. Of course, it can be said that this is a bad thing, as Jacobs is still nominally a heel. Unlike Whitmer, who is definitely a face. I’m not sure, to be honest. I like Jacobs, so who cares? Finally, out comes Danielson, he’s got a lot of fans in the crowd here. You can here someone loudly proclaiming ‘DIE, DIE, DIE’ over the music, which is fun. Danielson’s in a really bad mood today. He rips up someone’s sign, no idea what it was saying. Probably insulting him for being pale. Like Danielson’s entrance. Really simple, nice and effective.Apparently, Danielson is ‘Surely the most heterosexual man in this ring’ tonight. What the hell? That was totally bizarro, if kinda funny. Coming in, Whitmer’s been pushed heavily, but he’s barely won a match in ages. Jacobs has been booked as a perennial loser for the most part. Odds are distinctly against Danielson losing here, but there is the wonder of how far the challengers will go to get the title. Can they possibly top the powerbomb into the crowd? This is an elimination match, we’re told. A rolling technical sequence to start, with a rather slick 3-way submission applied in the first minute or so. Lots of takedowns and chain wrestling, inevitably interrupted for more of the same from the spare wheel. Jacobs and Whitmer go face to face, and a couple of slaps lead to hard forearms, until Whitmer knocks Jacobs flat. Jacobs goes for his super fucking headscissors of DOOM, but Danielson blocks it before he can flip, then lifts him into a fireman’s carry spin, until Whitmer interrupts with a dropkick. Of course, Danielson lost his last match, getting his head smashed in by KENTA. For those keeping count, KENTA has now pinned the World Champ twice. When Danielson applies the surfboard to Whitmer, Jacobs runs in to repeatedly chop him on the chest, then hit a short sharp dropkick to the back of the head on the mat. Whitmer rolls out, and Jacobs goes on to attacking Danielson. Jacobs gets some decent offense before Danielson takes over, but on a corner spot Jacobs gets the edge and hits a lovely front missile dropkick. Lacey receives the lovely ‘SHE’S GOT HERPES’ chant. In the ring, Whitmer and Jacobs end up in the ring together, while results in a combination german suplex on Whitmer and Exploder on Jacobs. Danielson eventually ends up with Cattle Mutilation on Danielson, who then takes a top rope senton from Jacobs. Jacobs manages to hit a death valley driver on Whitmer, and he can’t believe that it doesn’t result in Whitmer getting pinned. Lacey’s going nuclear at ringside trying to get him to destroy Whitmer, but Danielson cuts Whitmer off and tries a big belly to back. Danielson goes on Whitmer’s shoulders, and Jacobs hits a hurracanrana out of the doomsday device position for a close near fall when both pin him. Apparently it was their old tag finisher, which is a nice touch. They can’t believe it. Whitmer hits a sick lariat and gets a near fall. Fans start chanting ‘PLEASE DON’T DIE’ as he goes up in the corner of doom. He goes to powerbomb Jacobs over the guard rail again, but gets cut off. Jacobs tries the super Contra Code, but it gets blocked and Whitmer goes for the bomb again, but Danielson cuts him off gets him in a powerbomb, allowing Jacobs to hit a Contra Code off Danielson’s shoulders, and then Whitmer gets double pinned out of the match. Cool! I thought Jacobs would take the first fall. Apparently Jacobs is in front of his home fans. Danielson doesn’t want to continue, even offers to double high five Jacobs. They do indeed, then handshake, and Danielson blindsides him with a kick to the gut and goes aggro all over his face. Jacobs gets massacred for an extended period, while Lacey becomes increasingly disgusted with her charge’s performance, or lack thereof. Jacobs eventually escapes Cattly Mutilation and hits a spear, then a series of forearms and elbows into an enziguri and sideways fisherman neckbreaker into cradle for a near fall. Danielson tries to come back with a double axe handle, but gets speared out of the air for a near fall. He tries Contra Code, but gets slapped across the face and taken down. Jacobs blocks a couple of Danielson’s major finishers, then Danielson blocks a super Contra Code, before Jacobs herts a near fall after sitting down on a top rope sunset flip. The fans are major into this, at least. Jacobs finally hits the Contra Code, but Danielson kicks out, and Lacey goes apeshit at ringside. The fans start chanting ‘BULLSHIT’. It was a pretty clear kickout, in all fairness. Jacobs uses Cattle Mutilation, for lack of his own options, but its a mistake as Danielson rolls out, then drives him back into the turnbuckles three times, arm drags him out of the turnbuckle and knocks him out with the roaring elbow into USB elbows and crossface chickenwing for the submission victory. Of course, Lacey is sickened by Jacobs. Great stuff as always, but kept below the level it could have been due to Jacobs having no believable chance of winning. He looked strong in defeat, at least. Not one, or maybe two, of Danielson’s best defences, but three ways are always awkward territory.***EIGHTH MATCH: KENTA Vs. Wodewick StwongHm. I’m not sure how good this will be. Since my first encounter with Wodewick at Supercard of Honour he’s dropped FAR down in my estimation. We’ll see. He gets right in KENTA’s face, because he’s hard, and that’s what all hard men do. KENTA couldn’t give a toss. How prickish will he be, though, that’s the question? Jesus Strong’s bland.Open with a ‘BREAK HIS BACK’ chant, which KENTA’s not overly impressed by. They shake hands, though, and finally the bell rings. They dick each other about a little, before KENTA takes over with a little leg work and then a stiff kick to the chest. They start trading kicks and chops, an exchange Wodewick wins. Well, if anyone can get away with chops beating kicks, it’s Wodewick. KENTA quite blatantly steals one of Samoa Joe’s spots by countering a leap frog with a powerslam, then goes into some more ground control. Wodewick gets off another chop, and KENTA collapses. So far the chops are being sold well over the kicks. On the outside, after narrowly winning a strike rally, KENTA chucks Wodewick into the barricade so frickin’ hard that he visibly knocks it back about a foot. KENTA’s slinging prick kick gets the usual big response, before he applies a camel clutch, butch Wodewick breaks out of it. He fires back all hot and energetic, gets a near fall off a high and hard dropkick. Wodewick looks like he can keep KENTA down, but on a corner spot he ends up taking a big Ace Crusher. He then knocks him out with a big running boot to the face while he’s tied up in the turnbuckle, and dropkicks him RIGHT in the face (good angle on that one!). Double slingshot springboard missile dropkick hits, and Wodewick immediately powers up with a double underhook backbreaker through the ropes, then the uranage backbreaker and gibson driver for a near fall. The trademark move blitz stops with KENTA avoiding the fireman’s carry gutbuster, and they go into beating the living shit out of each other, which Wodewick wins again, only for them to both no-sell a big move in true Japanese style before knocking themselves out on a double clothesline collision. Half nelson backbreaker is converted into german suplex, and KENTA tries for the Busaiku, then dodges the gutbuster and counters into texas cloverleaf. Wodewick hits a frickin’ belly to back suplex right on the ring apron, which looks totally brutal. He goes for the cover but only gets a two, then hits a few miscellaneous moves including a superplex. Bad timing, I think. The fans were in the mood for a Stronghold attempt, I think. But he goes for it a minute later, and of course KENTA makes the ropes. Strong sits KENTA on the rop rope and chops him, then goes for the super gutbuster, but KENTA gets free. Wodewick blocks the leap up to falcon arrow and hits a flying knee for a near fall. Wodewick finally hits the super gutbuster, but KENTA kicks out yet again, much to his frustration. Stronghold yet again, KENTA gets the rollup that beat Wodewick against Danielson, then hits the abe crusher, kick combo and Busaiku Knee Kick, then Go To Sleep for the victory. Well, it beat fucking Bryan Danielson twice in a row, so it’s going to beat Wodewick, isn’t it?Again, good match, but not great. Wodewick’s got very little fire, no matter how much energy he has. The exchanges just didn’t feel very heated. Pity, but not unexpected. KENTA Vs. Joe, and KENTA Vs. Danielson are the money matches (so to speak). Both should be incredible. Tomorrow: Aries is on the hit list, and that match should be great, because Aries is better than Wodewick in almost every conceivable way. Hell, his haircut’s even better. ***1/2Briscoes charge the ring and beat the crap out of Wodewick, but KENTA doesn’t like that so he attacks the Briscoes and chases them off instead of, you know, getting his head kicked in since they’re fresh and a tag team while he’s fucking exhausted. Well that didn’t make them look like pansies at all, did it? What the hell was the point of that?Cabana promos. He’s got a title match.

[alexander]

ROH

[edgecrusher]

NOt sure what you were referring to on the 'baseball' spot.

[alexander]

Not sure what you were referring to on the 'baseball' spot.

Aries hit Shelley with an overhand chop in the corner as if he were throwing a baseball, ran round the ring tagging the turnbuckles as if they were bases then slid into 'home' with a low dropkick to his nuts. Then Strong got in the ring and called the SAFE! to general hilarity. Great spot.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Watched ROH Better Than Our Best.The 6-Man opener (Evans/Sydal/Crist/Crist/Steele/Jacobs) was pretty fun actually. Some good interaction between the various participants, I can't say I care for Steele or the Crist's a lot, but on the whole this was nicely watchable. *1/2Reyes/Delirious was decent, if a little plodding. Reyes looked rather poor on offence, and he doesn't seem to have a lot of motivation since his push is seemingly over, but the crowd love Delirious and they really got into the match. OK. *1/2The Embassy + Yoshino v Do Fixer tag is probably the match of the milestone series. Great heel work, strictured well, and combined it all with the awesome finishing stretch that the DG guys usually provide. Do Fixer are all great at sympathy selling, even if their long term selling is a little dubious, so the Embassy's control segment works well. It has some problems, but with great role playing, a believable and over face/heel dynamic and some great action, I loved this match. ***1/2Joe/Styles/Daniels/Yang was good. I've seen about enough of Joe/Styles/Daniels to last a lifetime, and I hate Yang, so I was in fact suprised at how decent this match was. Joe was of course brilliant, the others were pretty much there. As you would expect, the finishing sequence stands out as being great. **1/2The Aries/Strong v CIMA/Doi tag was the 3rd best match of the milestone series, and another top draw tag. It was going OK until Aries busted his nose, and then it picked up a whole lot. Blood Generation were awesome dick heels working him over, and they built fantastically to the hot tag. Thing was, everyone knew their role in the match, and with another awesome final run this is up there with any tag in the series and miles better than the more spot orientated 6 Man the night before. Aries selling towards the end could have been better, and if I never see a delayed vertical suplex again it won't be a moment too soon, bot overall this was another insanely fun tag. ***1/2Dragon/Storm was like Lance Storm in a lot of ways. In that it was good all round, and very good technically, but did little to grip or excite you. They did some fair work around the veteran/youngster story, the action was perfectly good. Make no mistake about it, the second half of the match is far better than the first, and the ending is done really well. There isn't mch to say about this match, apart from that it was perfectly enjoyable yet totally forgettable. **1/2Homicide/Cabana was a mixed bag. Much of the first half was filled with plodding, predictable brawling, and average strikes. They picked it up for the second half, and while a lot of the set ups for the weapons took too long and were contrived, what they did with the weapons was generally very good. Chair riot was fun, Cabana was really aggressive and brought the hate. Not sure about Cide here though, he looked a tad unmotivated at times, although his selling of the alchoghol was out of this world. I never did like this feud, but in the end they produce a good, if unspectacular match to end it. **1/2This is an all round good show. It has no really bad matches on, even the ones below ** are perfectly watchable. Two awesome tags steal the show, and the two main events were fairly good in my view, and if you're a fan of any of the guys you'll probably like them even more. It might not be Better Than Their Best, but it's probably the best ROH show of 2006 up to that point.

Well, I disagree, but at least he HAS an act, which is more than can be said for a lot of his theoretical contenders

Oh yes, definately. I'll take his act over other good but bland wrestlers who could really do with some sort of gimmick, however much Gabe doesn't want to appear like Sports Entertainment.People always quote Chris Benoit in that situation, but fact is he has a gimmick- that he's a great, intense wrestler. It works because few in WWE have that gimmick, and all the fans respect him for being a great worker.

You think? I can't see it. I've seen nothing from Claudio or Chris Hero to suggest they'd have a CHANCE against Aries/Wodewick. Without proper build up a sudden title change would get shat on by the ROH faithful

Exactly. It would get tons of heat onto the KOW, as if they didn't have enough anyway. Plus, it'll give us a lot of fresh matches.

but I think Gabe's more interested in what happens between the ropes than out of it,

I think you need to strike a balance. You can still have good wrestling with great characters.

The Briscoes are over, beloved by the crowd,

But for how long? Seems to me they're riding on the wave of their comeback, and I really can't see it lasting. Maybe I'll be proved wrong though, who knows?

Wonder if he got sick of essentially going nowhere in the company?

I think he saw that Gabe stopped pushing him after he became a bigger player in TNA, and they came to a mutual agreement for him to leave. Huge shame though, as he was usually one of the most entertaining parts of their show.Plus, he has at least some name value for the company with his getting pushed in TNA.He probably got sick of his going nowhere, and Gabe probably got sick of his having to work TNA shows instead of ROH shows when they clashed.I'm sure he'll still get booked occasionally.

[edgecrusher]

But for how long? Seems to me they're riding on the wave of their comeback, and I really can't see it lasting. Maybe I'll be proved wrong though, who knows?

Certainly believable, but after three losses in succession to the champs they're STILL getting big pops and SOMEHOW are still thought of as Aries/Stwong's no. 1 challenge in the company, going by the fan reaction to Irish Airborne eliminating them (or so it goes, haven't seen the match meself). I think the Briscoes' style just clicks with the ROH fans, and that combined with the obvious improvements (it's very noticeable if you've seen the Tag Team Excellence DVD, which has not stood the test of time very well) and their historical significance to the company means they're just over. However, I think it's safe to say that Gabe doesn't want them as champs. Yet. Edited August 22, 2006 by edgecrusher

[alexander]

ROH

[edgecrusher]

I think the problem with the Briscoes matches with GenNEXT, from booking rather than personal opinion (I rather liked them), is that the fans know they're pretty meaningless. After looking back, I've noticed that GenNEXT have lost almost any match they were in while not part of a team (barring a couple of matches such as Strong's against Yang), and as a team they'd already beaten the Briscoes by this point, unless I've horribly mixed up my timing on the shows. Jay and Mark are definitely better as a tandem, though. I don't like their singles work much, though I think Jay's not half bad.

[alexander]

I'm sure they haven't had the first title match at this point. If I remember the ROH message board correctly (And sometimes I wish I couldn't) the general opinion was that the Briscoes would take the Tag belts, if not in the first meeting then definately in the second.The reason Gen Next have tended to not many singles wins of late is that they get plenty of shots at the other titles as two of the top guys in the promotion. The Briscoes beating them in singles contests Should be a big deal, but the matches were so appalling (And I entirely blame the Briscoes for this) that the fans couldn't even get behind the upsets.

Edited August 24, 2006 by Leicester Lantern