Boxing Thread

[wandshogun09]

Ricky's side

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/spo...-family-6164581

 

Parents side

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-sto...nts-not-2343274

 

Thanks for that. I've somehow missed this story almost completely. Didn't realise things had gotten that bad, I just thought it was a typical family fallout that would blow over. But the way Hatton was talking about it, obviously not.

 

It's always about fucking money as well. Obviously, it's hard to say who's in the right here but it's a shame it's came to this. I get the impression from reading both sides that this is really a problem between Ricky and his Dad. It sounds like his Mom and brother have just been dragged into it. His Mom seems like she wants to sort it out but Hatton sounded like he doesn't want to know in the interview I saw.

 

Speaking of Ricky Hatton, looking through the timeline of his past fights. Was there a reason why he was defending the WBU light welterweight title for over four years, between 2001 & 2005. I guess he vacated it once he won a real world title against Kostya Tszyu. It seems in what would have been his prime, he was treading water for a long time before he got a world title shot and even then it was as a mandatory challenger.

 

From what I remember from reading Hatton's first book, he said Frank Warren kept holding back on getting him the big fights around that time.

 

Here's a bit from the book;

 

After beating Tackie, I felt on top of the world and I was ready for anything and anybody. I was in my prime, my mid 20s, and I wanted a piece of the action at the very top level. So who did I get next? Dennis Holbaek Pedersen, that's who.

 

I look back on those times with a lot of sadness, because I genuinely felt like jacking the sport in. A sport which I had absolutely lived and breathed for from when I was a nipper. I know a bit more about the sport now and I am very much aware that it is far from perfect. Sometimes things don't work out, but, at the time, I was impatient and in a hurry to fight the best. If I couldn't do that, I would begin to question the point of it all.

 

I felt I was treading water. I had been a pro since 1997 and wanted something more. Maybe I was desperate for a challenge because I had loved the cut and thrust of the Phillips and Magee fights. Boxers who were worthy and dangerous opponents.

 

Then the rumours started about how I didn't want to face the best and how I was cowering away from the likes of Tszyu. Bollocks to that. By this time, I rated myself and I wanted only the best against me in the ring. I knew I was ready and yet I was wading through treacle, or more specifically Dennis Holbaek Pedersen, a boxer who wasn't in my league and was also considered smaller than me.

 

I was desperate to take on the elite of the 10-stone division. I told Frank so, in no uncertain terms, and I even told a few friends in the press that I was seriously fucked off about the whole thing. I wanted the big names, but Frank didn't always agree. Of course, he has been around long enough to have his opinion, but ultimately a promoter should do what his fighter wants. Not the other way round.

 

And

 

Don't think for one minute that I didn't have some great times with Frank, because I did. I'm the first to admit that he did a decent job in the early and middle stages of my career. It's just that I think he feels he has to control his fighters much more than I wanted.

 

The Stewart fight had been billed as a final eliminator for the IBF title, held by Tszyu, and I went to see Frank Warren shortly afterwards. I told him I wanted Tszyu. I wasn't interested in hanging around in the comfort zone any more. I hoped the fight could have been made there and then, or at least, failing that, Frank could have got me in the ring with Mitchell or even the then WBA champion Vivian Harris. Frank said he would let me know.

 

I got Ray Oliveira, another decent fighter, but not the one I wanted. When I found out, I let Frank know I was getting more and more cheesed off with the fights I was getting. Oliveira was high-class, but he was 36. I was in my prime and wanted to be pitted against the top man.

 

No doubt, Fish Eyes Frank would have a different version of events but that's bits of Hatton's side. He basically said that he was drawing good crowds for Warren so Warren didn't want to step him up for the risky fights, so kept him where he was as long as possible. Sounds plausible.

[Egg Shen]

the Hatton family thing is pretty sad, they always seemed like a tight unit the build up to his fights the actual fights and any Ricky Hatton home life stuff always heavily involved his parents.

[Rossman]

No doubt, Fish Eyes Frank would have a different version of events but that's bits of Hatton's side. He basically said that he was drawing good crowds for Warren so Warren didn't want to step him up for the risky fights, so kept him where he was as long as possible. Sounds plausible.

 

Thanks for that Wand. When you hear Warren talking about the home advantage, he always asks rhetorically would Hatton have beaten Tszyu if it wasn't in Manchester. Kind of like he didn't have the faith in him. Maybe he was scared his cash-cow would go state-side if his appeal broadened.

[jimufctna24]

There is a good video on youtube I cannot find of Ed Robinson from SKY asking Hatton after a late 2004 fight if he is going to get a more stiffer challenge or a title eliminator.

 

Warren chimed in "whats that meant to mean" or something like that, and told Sky to stick to producing and he would worry about match making.

 

So, Hatton is not stirring history, he is being honest.

[wandshogun09]

Sounds about right.

 

I still wish we'd have got a bit of a round robin between Hatton, Gatti and Katsidis in the mid 2000s. Hatton vs Gatti was possible around 2005. I'm sure I read that it was kind of on the table at one point but Gatti wound up getting the big payday against Mayweather.

 

Just imagine those fights though, at that time. Any combination of Hatton-Gatti-Katsidis pretty much guarantees an absolute classic. The only one that came really close to materializing was Hatton vs Katsidis but it was 2012 by the time it was seriously looking likely. So it wouldn't be what it would have been in say, 2007/08. Hatton vs Katsidis was originally the plan for Hatton's recent comeback fight as well. It went as far as some places advertising tickets and all sorts. Shame it never came off. Would have been a hard comeback, but more Hatton's type of fight in many ways, than Senchenko. And it would have been a great fight to end on, no doubt.

 

There were a few Hatton fights that got away. I remember a fair bit of talk of a possible Hatton vs De La Hoya fight over here at one point, think it was around 2008, before De La Hoya vs Pacquiao got put together. That would have been a huge if they did it in Manchester. I vaguely remember rumblings of Hatton vs Juan Manuel Marquez around 2008/09 as well.

 

You have to wonder if we'd have got some of these fights if Hatton wasn't "treading water" so long over here from 2001-05. By the time he got to the States, he was only about three years off retiring. Then again, Hatton himself in his first book said the Tszyu fight came at the perfect time for him, so who knows how things would've worked out had Warren pulled the trigger sooner. He might not have been ready, Tszyu might have battered him and he might never have got those really big paydays.

[Egg Shen]

little heads up...

 

The Boxing News Annual is out now, i picked up mine from WHSmith yesterday and it's awesome.

[Stylin_and_Profilin]

I was never really aware of the story behind Naz, i obviously followed him as a fighter when i was younger (it was impossible not too), i distincitively remember him losing to Barrera (though i didnt see it at the time) and the feeling i always got was that Naz finally got his comeuppance. He did fight one more time after that but i was never really aware of why he actually walked away.

 

I think as well he was pretty content with what he had achieved and was happy to walk away with his health intact, two young kids in his life and, on the whole, a good legacy to leave behind.

 

He was set for life financially, which goes without saying, between boxing and also a lot of people forget that pre-Beckham he was one of Adidas' top endorsement deals in their history for a non-US athlete. SKY must have absolutely loved him as someone to promote as he polarised opinion in that for as many people who loved him i dare say equally as many would be happy to tune in to see him get a pasting as come uppence for his big mouth. SKY Box Office back then had him hitting his prime, Lennox Lewis likewise and the WWF red hot doing it's own UK PPV events; they must have been laughing all the way to the bank in the 1997-2000 period in particular.

 

If you've not seen it watch 'Little Prince - Big Fight' which is a documentary following Naseem in the build up to the fight with Barrera at the MGM Grand. It's pretty much full behind the scenes access from the beginning to the finish and has a lot of interesting little tidbits on the side ranging from telling Michael Buffer exactly how he should be introduced and then talking through his ring entrance with the stage technicians and pyrotechnic whizz kids from the arena and TV production crews. I've often heard his brother get a panning for being a bit of a twat and hard to deal with but in fairness he's just looking out for his own and trying to get the best possible for his family. If you compare that to the likes of what someone like Tyson who had folks like Rory Holloway and John Horne 'advising' him it's safe to say you'd take your brother as your manager all day long.

 

I was always curious to whether he would have chucked it after the Barrera fight even if he had won. As Ebb says it's a bit peculiar how he had one more fight, which again a lot of people forget, and then called it a day. Maybe he was just fulfilling a contractual obligation?

Edited November 26, 2013 by Stylin_and_Profilin

[wandshogun09]

I often wonder what would have happened with Naseem had he carried on boxing. You have to assume he'd probably have had another five years if he'd wanted to keep going. Naz vs Erik Morales is one of those big 'what if?' fights for me, one that got away. Could've been an absolute all-time classic. Naz vs Pacquiao, Marquez or even Gatti would have been something to see as well. And a Barrera rematch could have been big.

 

While I'm here, some classic Naz entrances;

 

Halloween style 'Thriller' entrance vs Wayne McCullough

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=jZvBDYS6hsY

 

Ridiculously over the top entrance vs Daniel Alicea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=Kusljds7WW0

 

In a kilt, to 'Here Comes The Hotstepper', vs Sergio Liendo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=adEqVCqtGYM

 

And the Barrera entrance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=PWqbzLcKsWU

 

Nothing like him in boxing since. Some of these are like Apollo Creed's James Brown entrance in Rocky IV in their ridiculousness. I love them.

 

I love the 'Thriller' one. So over the top and it reminds me a bit of the old Halloween Havoc sets in WCW. The commentator's a right wet blanket about the whole thing though.

 

"You're going to see a ring entrance which has caused much comment and controversy. Designed by American TV producers. Nassem is going to come in to a mock...graveyard. Harmless Halloween fun? Or in very poor taste, in a dangerous sport like boxing? I'm certainly of the latter view, myself.

 

The Americans say to us, 'Don't take it so seriously. You've got to realise Halloween is a big party weekend over here. No correlation should be made between boxing and graveyards. It's all a bit of fun.' Or is it, Glenn?"

 

Then Glenn McCrory starts on about it's not right that a fighter should have to walk through that and have it on his mind. Jesus Christ, lighten up boys. Just as McCrory finished his sentence Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' started up. It's all clearly tongue-in-cheek, I don't know why they felt the need to get all morbid about it. Yeah, it's a rough sport and all that but the entrance was so silly and goofy. As they were saying this stuff there were really cartoonish sound effects of women screaming and cats meowing in the background.

[jimufctna24]

Prince Naz is my favorite boxer ever, so any views I give about him will be 100% biased I admit.

 

For anyone who wants a bite-size look at Naz's career, I would suggest this cheap DVD

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Naseem-Hamed-Best-...s=prince+naseem

 

If I had to choose only 10 DVD's to own this would probably be one of them, Naz at his peak was a thing of beauty. Skillful and for his size stupidly powerful. His style was exciting also, very reckless, but full of risks and thrills. If I had to sit down and watch 5 fights of any Boxer or MMA fighter, Naz would be near the top of my list.

 

Naz was probably the most charismatic fighter who has fought in my lifetime, only David Haye comes close, and maybe Floyd. Naz was a underachiever overall, he should have ideally stayed in Sheffield to train, look at what that camp did with Johnny Nelson. With Naz's natural talent, they could have made him a potential GOAT, if he would have stayed and allowed to control his own camp. Naz was a master of his own downfall in my view, it seems he just did not have the mind-set, its a overused saying in general, but in this case it is true in my view.

 

Naz also had problems with his hands we should add, but that does not excuse the loss to Barrera who most agree he had the tools to beat. I would speculate if he trained in Sheffield for that fight, it could have been a very different fight.

 

He has a tainted legacy, the boos he gets at events are defeating, but I still hold him in the high regard. It is amazing a man so vain in the 90's has let himself become a midget blimp in recent years.

[wandshogun09]

Naz also had problems with his hands we should add, but that does not excuse the loss to Barrera who most agree he had the tools to beat. I would speculate if he trained in Sheffield for that fight, it could have been a very different fight.

 

Barrera was a fucking phenomenal fighter in his own right though. One of the very best in the world at that time. Wherever Naz trained, that was going to be his hardest fight yet by far. He'd beat good fighters before but Barrera was a step up from anyone else he'd faced to that point. And although he wasn't in Sheffield with Brendan Ingle, it wasn't like Naz was training with poor coaching staff for Barrera. He had Emanuel Steward in his corner.

 

I love the Barrera vs Naz fight. Every bit of it. As far as one sided fights go, it was wildly entertaining. From Naz's ludicrous entrance where he came flying in on a big ring to Wu Tang Clan's 'Gravel Pit'. Larry Merchant saying "Bring in the clown. Bring in the fighter. Same guy." To which George Foreman responds with "Now, we don't wanna be too old Larry." Then Naz defiantly deciding to rob everyone of the flip over the ropes.

 

And that's just the entrances! The fight itself is non-stop action as well. And I always get a kick out of the bit where Foreman loses his rag with Jim Lampley;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=vLtyKffXp4s

 

Lampley: And if he loses it's because it has been written by Allah. The 12 rounds you've seen suggest that Allah knows how to spell Barrera. B-A-R-R-E-R-A.

 

Foreman: You should be cool on that.

 

...

 

Lampley: I don't think he likes him, George.

 

Foreman: I don't think you like him much yourself, Jim.

 

Lampley: I like him fine. I...I...have no problem with Naz.

 

Foreman: You've said some things, I don't think you like the guy, you should be careful yourself.

 

These videos are worth a watch of you get chance Jim. Quite interesting to look back on;

 

Barry McGuigan, Steve Bunce and Jimmy Tibbs pre-fight analysis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=iTAS15ZIoJo

 

Emanuel Steward, Jim Watt, Nicky Piper and Barry McGuigan post-fight analysis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&a...p;v=tYlC2YcworU

 

 

I think Barrera vs Hamed would be a great choice to do a Legendary Nights on myself. Hopefully HBO will do it eventually.

[jimufctna24]

Thanks for the videos man

 

The case I make is based on the Sheffield Steel documentary on Sky a few weeks back. Ingle made a good case that Naz never fought as well after he left Sheffield. Ingle had trained Naz for years, he knew how to get the best out of him, remember Naz was a very unique fighter, very complex. Steward as great a trainer as he is, might have struggled to adapt to Naz's ways.

 

Barrera was a great fighter, sadly I missed most of his prime outside the Naz fight, my only real memory is a ancient Barrera getting stopped by Khan in Manchester, it speaks volumes that Khan was mostly booed in his hometown, and Barrera was the favorite (I like Khan by the way, not hating) By any standard Barrera performed well that night, and was unquestionably the better fighter.

 

There is a chance that Ingle or not, Naz simply got a exposed that night as a limited or flawed fighter. We will never know for sure as he made one comeback against a aging fighter, and never fought at top level again.

[wandshogun09]

Barrera was a great fighter, sadly I missed most of his prime outside the Naz fight, my only real memory is a ancient Barrera getting stopped by Khan in Manchester, it speaks volumes that Khan was mostly booed in his hometown, and Barrera was the favorite (I like Khan by the way, not hating) By any standard Barrera performed well that night, and was unquestionably the better fighter.

 

If you ever get time and are wanting to watch some Barrera at his best, I can't recommend highly enough the tremendous trilogy he had with Erik Morales. The first fight was before he fought Naz as well so you can see from watching that how risky a fight he was for Naz. He lost a razor close decision to Morales which many thought he won. And Morales was unbeaten at the time, 30-something and 0.

 

Going back even further, Barrera had a corker against Kennedy McKinney in 1996 that doesn't get brought up enough IMO. McKinney was an Olympic gold medalist and Barrera knocked him down five times in all during the fight. It was a real war, McKinney knocked Barrera down as well at one point. Great, great fight. One of Barrera's best fights and best wins.

 

Even post-Naz and well after his prime, he still beat Johnny Tapia, Kevin Kelley and Paulie Ayala. And he gave Marquez a hell of a fight as late as 2007. He had a great career all in all.

 

The Barrera that fought Khan wasn't a fair reflection of what the man was truly capable of. Khan of today vs the Barrera of 2000/01, now that would have been some fight.

 

There is a chance that Ingle or not, Naz simply got a exposed that night as a limited or flawed fighter. We will never know for sure as he made one comeback against a aging fighter, and never fought at top level again.

 

Yeah we'll never know. In some ways it's fitting that Naz didn't hang around too long and left people wanting more. But it's a shame so many potentially amazing fights didn't get made. I don't even think it was that he was limited or flawed, I just think he came up against a crafty, in form fighter in Barrera, who was more than prepared for some rough or dirty tactics if need be, and he just got outclassed on that night. He got outworked and beat to the punch at almost every turn. I do think he could've done better in a rematch though. I definitely think he had the skill to hang with and maybe beat Barrera on another night. But I think what beat him that night was a combination of Barrera's skill (obviously) and that his mind games didn't effect Barrera as they usually did with most of his opponents. Barrera had a real 'fuck you' swagger about him that night. Well, most of his career really, but especially that night.

[Stylin_and_Profilin]

Naz being his usual cocky self seemed to really piss Barrera off in the build up to that fight though which perhaps spurred him on even more; remember when he tried to smash Naseems head into the turnbuckle?

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, that turnbuckle bit is in the Foreman/Lampley link on the last page. Barrera was a nut. Remember when he smacked Erik Morales at a press conference? He doesn't seem like the most difficult guy in the world to piss off does he?

[Bettencourt]

Getting nowhere with Eventim in regards to Haye vs Fury tickets.

 

I'm going write to Hayemaker Promotions. I don't think I'll get anywhere with them either, but it's worth a try.