Boxing Thread

[wandshogun09]

I really hope they do it. And if Morales won they'd be 2-2, have to do a 5th fight then

 

If this somehow ends up happening this will be one of the most stacked Boxing cards in years. Barrera/Morales 4 would make me feel a lot better about the

[wandshogun09]

Pacquiao vs Marquez 3 press conference highlights

 

what the fuck's The Miz doing there? haha

 

 

Yes, can't fooking wait for this fight

[Taylorslade]

I can't wait for that one, either. Personally, I think they are 1-1, and I will offer a prediction nearer the fight, but I've always believed that, style-wise, Marquez has always had Manny's number, because he is a thinking fighter, and speed can be be nullified by anticipation. That, and the fact that Marquez is one of the greats of the last 20 years, should be remembered. If Pacquiao wins, it won't have anything to do with size or weight (which people are making far, far too much of, it's ridiculous), it will be because he has evolved and is a better fighter than Marquez. However, the Manny who fought Marquez in 2008 is not too far away from the version who currently sits atop the pound-for-pound rankings right now in 2011.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Taylorslade

[wandshogun09]

If Pacquiao wins, it won't have anything to do with size or weight (which people are making far, far too much of, it's ridiculous), it will be because he has evolved and is a better fighter than Marquez.

 

Yeah I don't think the weight is a factor either. They're gonna be pretty much the same size on fight night. If you look at the weights they've came in at their last few fights (both around 145-148) there's not much difference. Marquez was weighing in at 135 and coming in on fight night at 144ish so it just means he won't have to shed that last few pounds to weigh in.

 

Just seen there's a special on Michael Watson on Sky Sports 3 on September 24th. Sky Sports is free that weekend aswell from what I'm told.

[jimufctna24]

So what kind of chance does anyone think Ademek has this weekend against Viatli.

[Egg Shen]

i had a dream last night that Adamek beat Vitali at start of the 11th round with Vitali refusing to come off his stool...seriously! i don't know why he didn't come out it wasn't clear but Adamek won the title! Even though the guy in my dream didn't look anything like Adamek.

 

Still i think it's worth putting a quid down on it

 

gutted about the Morales fight falling apart, im buying the PPV next Saturday based on the fact that there's 3 solid fights on one card. I hope they keep Morales on there regardless.

[Egg Shen]

it's 60/1 that Adamek wins the 10th or 11th.

 

QUESTION! If Vitali does refuse to come out for the 11th round would that go down as a stoppage in the 11th or 10th for Adamek?

[Taylorslade]

it's 60/1 that Adamek wins the 10th or 11th.

 

QUESTION! If Vitali does refuse to come out for the 11th round would that go down as a stoppage in the 11th or 10th for Adamek?

 

It would go on the record books as "RTD 10", which of course, means "Retired after 10 completed rounds". Within the language of boxing, it would be known as a 10th round TKO really.

[wandshogun09]

Adamek's game but I can't see him winning this. I think he's outmatched and too small for Vitali. He's tough as nails but I reckon Vitali will stop him in the later rounds.

 

Worth sticking a little bet on Adamek at them odds though.

[KillerBees]

it's 60/1 that Adamek wins the 10th or 11th.

 

QUESTION! If Vitali does refuse to come out for the 11th round would that go down as a stoppage in the 11th or 10th for Adamek?

 

Depends on if the bell rings for round 11 or not.

 

If his corner informs the referee he is retiring before the bell is rung, it is a 10th round Retirement. If the bell goes and he doesn't answer it, then it is an 11th round retirement.

[Taylorslade]

Yeah I don't think the weight is a factor either. They're gonna be pretty much the same size on fight night. If you look at the weights they've came in at their last few fights (both around 145-148) there's not much difference. Marquez was weighing in at 135 and coming in on fight night at 144ish so it just means he won't have to shed that last few pounds to weigh in.

 

Exactly.

 

Mr. Shogun, you don't know how much of a relief it is for me to finally hear someone speak sense on this issue. Honestly, I can't believe how many people (particularly the boxing media) are making of this so called size issue. From reading some of the press coverage around the time the fight was signed, you would think that Pacquiao had gained an extra pair of hands or something. These guys last fought in 2008, and as you point out, they have both been more or less Jr. Welterweights since then going off the official weights and in-ring weights. At the elite level these guys operate at, weight differential has little to do with it.

 

While I am near the subject, I would just like to point out (rather briefly), how silly the PED arguments are. I say briefly, but I just mean without going right the way back and digging every little thing up, just the main and relevant stuff....(before I do so, I would like to point out that I am a huge admirer of both fighters, Mayweather and Pacquiao).

 

Earlier this week, during a public workout, Floyd Mayweather said ;

"It's okay for him (Pacquiao) to go from 105 to 154 and he gets knockouts, and they say, 'You know what? It's all natural. But if I went from 147 to heavyweight and was knocking out heavyweights, would that be all natural? That's what you've got to ask yourself at the end of the day"

 

To me, this shows that Floyd's argument is not legitimate, by that I mean that I don't think Mayweather really believes that Pacquiao is actually using PED's, if the above quote is one of the ways he tries to explain it. Why do I say that? Well, mainly, it's a ridiculous thing to say and I don't believe that Mayweather would believe such a thing to be true. Floyd is very, very smart, and has spent a lifetime in boxing, accumulating a wealth of pugilistic knowledge which the vast majority of us probably couldn't appreciate, let alone achieve. Floyd knows damn well, that physically, he and Pacquiao's respective body weights have more or less followed the same timeline, but the main difference is that their campaigns through the weight classes have been structured differently, which is something that has created somewhat of an illusion, rather unfairly, that Manny Pacquiao is a giant killer and Floyd Mayweather picks on little guys.

 

One of the most striking facts of this whole argument, is the fact (and it is a fact) that until after the Pacquiao/Hatton and Pacquiao/Cotto fights, there was not a single mention anywhere of Manny being a "dirty athlete". There was no mention of drug use, until Floyd Sr. began to sound off around November 2009, as he attempted to clean the egg off his face which was splattered onto old man predator when Pacquiao laid waste to Ricky Hatton, who of course was a converted member of the Mayweather church of boxing. For a start, I seriously question Floyd Sr's knowledge of PED's anyway, and the fact that this began to come out after the embarrasment of the Hatton fight, speaks volumes.

 

After Senior made these allegations, I really thought that they would just be a flash in the pan and everyone can move on sort of thing, not so. Within days, the internet became absolutley infested with bullshit reasoning and crackpot theories which apparently proved that the Phillipino's achievments were the resulting fruit of a chemical cocktail. The Christmas period passed with most boxing websites giving daily and sometimes hourly updates on the negotiations taking place. So much so, that during those negotiations, with all the talk of PED's and drug testing demands, the Nevada State Athletic Association ordered an out of competition blood and urine test, just to see what the hell was going on and to try and establish some sort of stability to these claims which should not of been given serious consideration to begin with. Now, it's worth remembering that the ordering of these tests was big news and the NSAC put one of their officials onto a plane for the Phillipines, to get Pacquiao's blood and urine samples. Of course, the results were clear from both fighters.

 

Negotiations broke down at first over drug testing, when the Mayweather camp made some demands, but it was how they kept changing the demands which made the talks collapse.

 

The fact that the drug allegations just came from Mayweather Sr. pulling that excuse out after his fighter was destroyed (after all his talking) and then the only credibility (if you can call it that) they gained after that was the argument of "if Manny's clean then why not do all the testing possible", even though they both were forced to submit blood and urine samples by the NSAC during negotiations and both came back clean. The fact that all of the evidence indicated no drug use, it didn't matter to a lot of people who pointed to the unsucessful negotiations as proof of PED use. Negotiations which are nowhere near as transparent and straight-forward as these people think.

 

Floyd Mayweather knows for a fact, that his argument of "it's like me going up to Heavyweight and knocking guys out" is rubbish. After hearing him say that and other stuff, I have no doubt that he doesn't believe Pacquiao to be using these drugs at all.

 

Here is a basic summary of what I think has brought us to where we are now ;

 

After the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight, after Hatton, the only lucrative fight for Mayweather and the only superfight in general on the horizon, was a De La Hoya rematch. Obviously, it didn't happen. Oscar was unable to get his fire going properly again, and against Steve Forbes, he didn't look very good at all, and the whole purpose of the Forbes fight, was to get the public to believe that Oscar could go back to a Mayweather fight and do what he failed to the first time, which is why the Forbes fight was on regular HBO, the first time that the Golden Boy had fought on "Free TV" for a long time.

 

So Pacquiao is brought in, he has somewhat inherited the P4P tag as Mayweather had retired again, and Oscar thought he could beat up on the small guy and call it a day at the top (in his mind, anyway). It was seen as a novelty fight and tagged a "side show" by most. I think Mayweather made the decision to fight the winner at some point during the following year, whoever it was. I think Mayweather saw that Pacquiao would probably emerge as the next King of boxing, and with his ethnic following would provide the kind of PPV opponent which he could get a great payday from. However, I think that Floyd underestimated Manny, and after seeing Pacquiao willingly fight, and in most cases, destroy, certain fighters who Floyd himself avoided for a while, caught Money May by surprise. His response, I believe, was to minimise Pacquiao to the public and take advantage of anything which might come along to delay the fight, making it bigger and bigger each time, take a couple of the right type of fights in the run-up, and wait for Pacquiao to show signs of deterioration and fight him at just the right time.

 

The result? "Retiring after the Ricky Hatton fight, in the long-run will end up making Floyd about $50 million more than he would of, had he took the DLH rematch.

 

Or something like that....

[Taylorslade]

Depends on if the bell rings for round 11 or not.

 

If his corner informs the referee he is retiring before the bell is rung, it is a 10th round Retirement. If the bell goes and he doesn't answer it, then it is an 11th round retirement.

 

The bell can't be sounded until the seconds have cleared the ring. If the bell is sounded, with the referee giving the instruction to resume action, and the fighter doesn't cotinue, then it would go as the 11th.

 

There are a lot of examples where rules aren't strictly followed, mainly in these big fights. The biggest example being when a guy's trainer comes in to stop the fight. That should be an automatic DQ but they normally overlook that and put it down as a KO or TKO, partially because of lot of these crafty old trainers do it on purpose to save having a KO on their fighter's record, but now with almost every fight being filmed, it doesn't have the same effect as it did when a lot of fights weren't filmed and you had to take unreliable records and accounts as gospel.

[wandshogun09]

However, I think that Floyd underestimated Manny, and after seeing Pacquiao willingly fight, and in most cases, destroy, certain fighters who Floyd himself avoided for a while, caught Money May by surprise. His response, I believe, was to minimise Pacquiao to the public and take advantage of anything which might come along to delay the fight, making it bigger and bigger each time, take a couple of the right type of fights in the run-up, and wait for Pacquiao to show signs of deterioration and fight him at just the right time.

 

The result? "Retiring after the Ricky Hatton fight, in the long-run will end up making Floyd about $50 million more than he would of, had he took the DLH rematch.

 

Or something like that....

 

This is what I think aswell. It's the Leonard/Hagler situation all over again to me. Wait for him to slow down and then make the fight. Risky though because there's no guarantee that Manny will slow down first, especially with Floyd being so inactive. He could decline first and the whole thing could backfire.

 

Thing is I've always thought Floyd would beat Manny. The longer he waits I think the more it favours Pacman actually because he's staying active fighting top comp twice a year or so while Floyd's fighting like once every 18 months. If they would have came to an agreement on the fight when the big talks first started around 2009 I'd have had Floyd to win on points.

 

The last guy to really give Manny trouble was Marquez and the problems Marquez gave Manny were out thinking him and counter punching him using his aggression against him. I think Mayweather could pull off that strategy very well. But the more the fight is delayed the less sure I am of the outcome.

 

It's gotta happen though, eventually. There's been way too much hype and there's way too much money to be made for them not to do it.

[Mr Lawrence]

Bowe Holyfield legendary nights documentary - if this was the story from a film people would say it's far fetched. Very highly recommend to watch this. Sky, ITV or BBC need to do some of these for great british fights from the past.

 

How do people think Mccloskey will get on against Prescott tomorrow evening? I think Mccloskey will be on his toes much like Mitchell was against him and maybe take it on pts.

[Egg Shen]

all the Legendary Nights are brilliant, i wish they'd do more of them.