Paid Members Rob Lowe Posted October 8, 2003 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2003 Why i outta ! its ok, HBK still loves us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Masked Avenger Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 My top ten in no order :Bret Hart - probably my favourite wrestler growing up,looking back at his work now I realise how great he was.Steve Austin - Biggest star when I got back into wrestling around 1997/1998, I loved his brawling style,but he is one of the best all rounders ever.His more wrestling based approach in WCW in the early 90's produced some great matches,my favourite more recent matches of His are vs Kurt Angle and vs Chris Benoit.Eddie Guererro - One of the best all rounders ever in my opinion, everything he has done has been outstanding,from Los Gringos Locos,to Black tiger through ECW and WCW and now in WWE he shines almost every time hes in the ring.Kurt Angle - Possibly the top talent anywhere in the last few years,Loved his ring work all the way through his WWf/E career,particularly in matches against steve austin and chris benoit,and he can carry lesser oponents to very good matches.Chris Benoit - Consistently great throughout his career,great Junior hvt matches is Japan, had some awesome matches in WcW and ECW, I have personally enjoyed his WWF stint the most.His fueds with Jericho,Angle ,AUstin and others have produced classics.thats my top 5,others are :Ric FlairDean MalenkoKenta KobashiMick FoleyOwen Hart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Rob Lowe Posted October 8, 2003 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2003 why i outta ! its ok HBK stillloves you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryboy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Because the topic says based on wrestling ability I am picking people on base of technique and ability in the ring for the wrestling side of wrestling, rather than the performance side of wrestling, like Hulk Hogan, though I used to really get into his matches. Not in order, except for Bret, who is first.Bret HartMitsuharu MisawaSteve AustinChris BenoitKenta KobashiRic FlairShawn MichealsEddie GuerreroToshiaki KawadaCurt Hennig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 8, 2003 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2003 Firstly, LOP makes great points, making this thread more then just 10 names each. Well Done Mate.When a thread says in ring work, A lot depends on your view of in ring work. Personally, I always think of how realistic the moves look. Someone like Chris Benoit makes everything look legit, but he doesn't connect with the crowds as much as a Hogan, Flair or Michaels. Same with Bret Hart, who is more over then Benoit. Then there's the fact that Bret never blew spots, something which probably disqualifies RVD & Styles for starters. While his facial expressions were great, and the crowd into him big style, I just can't count Hogan. His matches were dull and repetative. He gets beat up, sells badly, then comes back like superman. Mine list is judged on Realism, Atleticism, Character & Crowd Reaction in the ring. And for me, the most important quality, is that they are always watchable.I also know squat about Japanese Wrestling, so I apologise to the Muto's, Misawa's, Kobashi's & Takayama's of the world.(Alphabetical Order)Bam Bam BigelowBret HartChris BenoitCurt HennigEddie GuerreroRic FlairRandy SavageSteve AustinShawn MichaelsTriple HSorry, Very predictable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PAFC Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 In no orderChris BenoitBret HartOwen HartKurt AngleCurt HeningRic FlairDean MalenkoEddie GurereroYuji NagataDoug Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Zeus Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Because the topic says based on wrestling ability I am picking people on base of technique and ability in the ring for the wrestling side of wrestling, rather than the performance side of wrestling, You see to me that's all down to perspective and very much open to interpretation - while you interpret 'wrestling ability' to mean one thing I interpret it to be another. It is my belief that everything that goes on in the ring whether it is physical contact between two wrestlers or verbal banter from one wrestler is still all part of a wrestler's 'ability'.I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Some wrestlers rely on one side more than the other but the best wrestlers (IMO of course) will use both and that is why wrestlers who rely too much on the 'physical' side don't appeal to me and don't get rated as a 'wrestler', again by me, as highly as wrestlers who utilise all aspects of their ability, both physically, verbally and emotively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BionicRedneck Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I just can't count Hogan. His matches were dull and repetative. He gets beat up, sells badly, then comes back like superman. Sounds like you were describing Shawn Michaels to me. Oh yes, I went there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryboy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 You see to me that's all down to perspective and very much open to interpretation - while you interpret 'wrestling ability' to mean one thing I interpret it to be another. It is my belief that everything that goes on in the ring whether it is physical contact between two wrestlers or verbal banter from one wrestler is still all part of a wrestler's 'ability'.I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Some wrestlers rely on one side more than the other but the best wrestlers (IMO of course) will use both and that is why wrestlers who rely too much on the 'physical' side don't appeal to me and don't get rated as a 'wrestler', again by me, as highly as wrestlers who utilise all aspects of their ability, both physically, verbally and emotively.Its how i've interpreted the topic title, that he wanted to know the 10 guys who wrestle better, if he'd had said top 10 total packages in wrestling, then I would have consideredphysically, verbally, emotively and so on, I'd have probably put the Rock in, seeing as I always get caught up in a Rock match or segment, because he's got a good amount of every thing that needs to go into a great wrestler. But, using the Rock as an example again, looking purely on his wrestling, the way he does his moves for instance, he works very loose, his ring work doesn't look incredibly impressive. Watch how he applies a sharpshooter, or a figure 4, or executes a samoan drop, they all look bad. Thats why I chose the guys I chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted October 8, 2003 Awards Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2003 In-ring ability to me, as Lambeau put it, its a tricky one. This has sort of evolved into a "ten best wrestlers" instead.The Rock -blah blah six moves of doom. He said it himself that he has pure electricity in the ring. His charisma an dcharacter are emphasised in everything he does, and this really comes across.Kurt Angle - Slag him all you like, that he's repetitive, unoriginal, only does goofy promos... I think he's ace. He has that character down pat, and can show different sides to it. He has a great instinct in the ring. He's not the best of all time, but a superb all-rounder. How many wrestlers wish they had Angle's ten worst matches as their best?Ric Flair - I'm not usually one to bawl about Flair, but quietly I have to admit that few have given like this man. Both competitors always come out on top, regardless of the win, and he doesn't stand still throughout the years.Ted DiBiase - Could have been the WWF's Ric Flair. An impressive worker in the ring with a solid knowledge of where he is at all times.Liger - How can I not include the best Junior of all time? The more matches of his I unearth, the more I am surprised by each one. Innovative, exciting - he gets people crazy for a palm strike, ferchrissakes!Hulk Hogan - Say what you like about the big yellow goon, but he's ridden the crest of wrestling popularity for decades. When he turns it on in the ring I makr like a child and he's given me a lot of good memories over the years.Keiji Muto - It's only been in the last year or two I've been switched on to the man's genius. Able to reinvent himself and waiting for a Shining Wizard is breathtaking.Steve Austin - Always giving 100%, and like Muto the way he adapted his style over the years through age, character and ability is commendable. An absolute star and deservedly so.The Undertaker - "Here comes the flame". I am confident then when the Undertaker steps into the ring, it will be enjoyable. Yes there have been letdowns, but I really dig the brawling style, and I enjoy seeing him at the top of the Smackdown brand.Eddie Guerrero - I feel like a prize prick for not realising how good he is until the past year. Slap me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Zeus Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 (edited) Its how i've interpreted the topic title, that he wanted to know the 10 guys who wrestle better, if he'd had said top 10 total packages in wrestling, then I would have consideredphysically, verbally, emotively and so on, I'd have probably put the Rock in, seeing as I always get caught up in a Rock match or segment, because he's got a good amount of every thing that needs to go into a great wrestler. But, using the Rock as an example again, looking purely on his wrestling, the way he does his moves for instance, he works very loose, his ring work doesn't look incredibly impressive. Watch how he applies a sharpshooter, or a figure 4, or executes a samoan drop, they all look bad. Thats why I chose the guys I chose.I never look that closely at how holds are applied or how 'loose' they wrestle - I'm very shallow in my viewing of wrestling, such that the odd bit of no selling or inconsitancy in the 'stoty' of the match will generally pass me by. That's probably why I can't and don't rate wrestlers simply on how they physically apply holds and how loose or tight they wrestle - I personally can't and to be honest never really try to extract that kind of analysis from a wrestler's performance. I just rate a wrestler on the match he has with all the various components incorporated in that one assessment.Things like skits and interviews I can rate exclusively but once the match has started, that's it for me! I'd probably get on well at an All Star show, though the thought of being labelled a retard or senile isn't one to relish - then again, look who the label originates from!! Edited October 8, 2003 by Lower Occipital Proturbance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natholy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'm going to do North America as a starting point from 1980-present day.For me it includes everything they do in that ring when the bell rings the way the story is told, the selling, the crispness of the moves, timing example when a face should have a hope spot, or when is it right for the comeback, does the wrestling look credible, does it draw me into the match, working the crowd, does it get me excited (no not in that way) etc.The following are not in order, to be honest if I wanted to do them in order you'd have to give me a month to prepare and look over matches etc.Top 5 For North America Very Fucking difficult by the way.Ted Dibiase : You couldn't get anyone better to tell a story in the ring, to get the timing spot on as well as working the crowd/me and getting me on the edge of my seat(see Vs Bret Hart SNME 1991, Vs Jim Duggan both matches including the huge blow off cage multiple stip match from Barnetts best of Midsouth vol 2, vs Ric Flair Midsouth 1985 Nov)Just a great worker, who knew what to do in that ring and work the North American style to a tee.Eddy Guerrero : Eddy as a heel is incredible to watch the tricks the sneakyness, but on top of that he is an incredible wrestler, crisp as they come, timing is perfect see the fish out of water pins from Hostile City showdown 1995 vs Malenko, have you ever wondered why when anybody else since then trys that 90% of the time it just doesn't have the same impact as it did in that match, why because that match they timed it perfectly.It was done towards the end of the match, it made sense in the story of the match by showing that they had put everything into trying to beat the man and that last pinfall sequence drew all their energy pshically and mentally.Eddy also does the small things that count all also the wrenching of a body part while he has a submission hold in etcTruly one of the greats in present day wrestling all he really needs is a world title push to cement him in the eyes of casual fans as a true legend.Bret Hart : Everybody knows my views on Bret a great technical wrestler, moves crisp, very tough in the ring everything looks real and the big thing is that he looks like he wants to win, he looks like hes in a legit fight, his matches aren't entertainment, they are hard fought wrestling contests.Also a very good storyteller (see vs Hennig KOTR 1993, PIPER WM 8, vs Owen Iron man match and WM 10 etc etc)He really grew and grew as a pro wrestler throughout the early part of his career and when he got his big singles push.Ricky Steamboat : What a wrestler, he had it all of what I mentioned above, one of the greatest guys for timing ever, fucking selling was off the charts some say Ricky Morton was one of the best sellers I always say Steamboat ahead of him for me, he always gave it his all even in matches which people would think as been just average..Ric Flair : Flair was awesome, the backing off when the babyface would start a comeback or early on during the match when Flair would be getting killed would always have me screaming at the TV set.For me Flair could also wrestle really stiff and a realistic style, the forearms Flair used to do to peoples chests, the chops all looked very really and painful.Flairs selling was always great to espically his old NWA stuff, who can remeber him screaming for his life, almost begging for his life "God No".Was very athletic and could go he was like the energizer bunny he just kept going and going, rarely would you see Flair, fluff a spot either later on maybe but during his hey day rarely would you see him fuck a spot, incredible considering how much he worked throughout the country and overseas as the NWA world champion.just my thoughts regards nate holynski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Darren Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 My ten - in no order:Doug WilliamsChris BenoitBret HartRic FlairJerry LawlerUltimo DragonEddie GuerreoKurt AngleDean MalenkoChris Daniels____________________________________________________________________The omision of doug williams from many people lists shocked meThe inclusion of Hogan shocked meWe are talking "wrestling" here...right? Not sport entertainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BionicRedneck Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 We are talking "wrestling" here...right? Not sport entertainers. Yet you have listed Kurt Angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members MoChatra Posted October 8, 2003 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2003 1. Kenta Kobashi2. Mitsuharu Misawa3. Toshiaki Kawada4. Manami Toyota5. Ric Flair6. Jushin Liger7. Bret Hart8. Ricky Steamboat9. Chris Benoit10. Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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