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Your top 10 wrestlers of the modern era?


Lambeau Leap

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This topic appears to have swerved from pure in-ring ability to drawing ability. The two are distinctly different. Yes when I was a kid I sat glued to the screen when the likes of Hogan was in the ring but looking back his matches were terrible, by contrast somelike like Ted DiBiase putiing on the Million Dollar Dream for 20 minutes bored me rigid but now I appreciate the storytelling and the technique and I think that is waht we are discussing here. The topic asked for ability, not charisma and I think it should stay that way.Anyway here is my ten:Dean Malenko: In my opinion the greatest technical wrestler outside Canada. Really did seem to know a thousand holds and could work with just about anyone from nippy high flyers like Rey Mysterio to proverbial giants like Barry Windam. All his moves were executed perfectly and it really is a pity that his size counted aginst him.Chris Benoit: From Malenko we go to his buddy Benoit. I think everyone here appreciates how great Benoit is and in my opinion has now even gone on to outshine his mentor Dynamite Kid.Curt Hennig: The man who made Bret Hart a star and indeed made just about everyone he went in the ring with look great. Fantstic selling to build up monster faces or just had the ability to go toe to toe with however he was in the ring with and get him and his opponent over. Why he was never WWf champion is beyond me.Lance Storm: Another canadian and another from Stu Hart's dungeon. I dunno what Stu was like as a wrestler but if you look at how good all his students are he must have been unbelievable. I generally like Lance as a mat wrestler but he can take to the air if necessary and is probably the best alrounder on this list.Bret Hart: Like Benoit I probably don't need to say anymore.Owen Hart: Around 1994 the heel announcers used to claim that Owen was the better Hart brother and I have to say while they were only doing it as character I totally agree. While Bret only used a dozen moves and to be fair it worked for him, Owen was constantly innovative and probably never had two matches the same.Steve Austin: It is often hard to remember that before he become the brawling redneck Stone Cold, Austin was a very good wrestler, infact he was better than that. My favourite match is still Austin vs Bret from Survivor Series 96. The fact that the rattlesnake could go toe to toe with the Hitman during hat match and later at Wrestlemania 13 without resorting to brawling is of great testament to him.Ric Flair: What more needs to be said?Too Cold Scorpio: Perhaps the first real high flyer outside Mexico and Japan. Some of his moves were amazing and rarely if ever looked sloppy unlike say RVD, over decade ago, and the fact the likes of the 450 splash still gets a big pop today is to his great credit for introducing the style to the mainstream audience. I prefer mat wrestling but for Scorp i'll make an exception. Scott Steiner: Like Austin it is all too easy to forget just how good Steiner once was. Sure he was a little stiff but to the wrestling fan looking on all his moves were tight and looked brilliant. The early master of the suplex before the likes of Taz(z) took it to another level and the Frankensteiner was a move that certainly I had never seen the likes of before. I know he is incable of it now but I would love to see him pull it off just once more.bubbling under: Dr Death Steve Williams, Kurt Angle, Ted DiBiase, Dynamite Kid, Jake Roberts.

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The omision of doug williams from many people lists shocked me

I'm suprised with Doug getting a mention in peoples Top 10 lists to be honest.What is the reasoning behind putting him in a Top 25 let alone a Top 10?regards nate holynski
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I was thinking about this the other day, and it wasn't that hard. In no order:Toshiaki Kawada Kenta KobashiMitsuharu MisawaChris Benoit Bret HartJushin Thunder LigerAja KongManami ToyotaKyoko InoueToshiyo Yamada

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This topic appears to have swerved from pure in-ring ability to drawing ability. The two are distinctly different. Yes when I was a kid I sat glued to the screen when the likes of Hogan was in the ring but looking back his matches were terrible, by contrast somelike like Ted DiBiase putiing on the Million Dollar Dream for 20 minutes bored me rigid but now I appreciate the storytelling and the technique and I think that is waht we are discussing here. The topic asked for ability, not charisma and I think it should stay that way.

But doesn't charisma still add to the actual in-ring product example Austin whooping someones ass early on in the match hitting them with lefts and rights then giving them a double bird, that just gets the crowd going they are getting into the lefts and rights as Austin kicks his opponents ass and its like the cherry on top when he gives them the double bird, Its his natural charisma of Steve shining through.Steves saying I'm kicking your ass and there ain't a thing you can do about it with the double bird looking right at them as there down from a series of blows.Its that little bit extra which is the difference between a good worker and a great worker.regards nate holynski
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This topic appears to have swerved from pure in-ring ability to drawing ability. The two are distinctly different. Yes when I was a kid I sat glued to the screen when the likes of Hogan was in the ring but looking back his matches were terrible, by contrast somelike like Ted DiBiase putiing on the Million Dollar Dream for 20 minutes bored me rigid but now I appreciate the storytelling and the technique and I think that is waht we are discussing here. The topic asked for ability, not charisma and I think it should stay that way.

But doesn't charisma still add to the actual in-ring product example Austin whooping someones ass early on in the match hitting them with lefts and rights then giving them a double bird, that just gets the crowd going they are getting into the lefts and rights as Austin kicks his opponents ass and its like the cherry on top when he gives them the double bird, Its his natural charisma of Steve shining through.Steves saying I'm kicking your ass and there ain't a thing you can do about it with the double bird looking right at them as there down from a series of blows.Its that little bit extra which is the difference between a good worker and a great worker.regards nate holynski
That's was my point. I don't think we are looking at how good a worker someone is but rather a pure wrestler. That is why I have included Steve Austin, pre-97 - sure he may have got amazing over but I think a wrestler has to do more than kick, punch and give the double bird, that is sports entertainment. Sure the whole industry is now classed as sports entertainment but we have to look past the shiny coating to see the actual abilities of the man behind the character rather than the performance of the character.
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but I think a wrestler has to do more than kick, punch and give the double bird, that is sports entertainment. Sure the whole industry is now classed as sports entertainment but we have to look past the shiny coating to see the actual abilities of the man behind the character rather than the performance of the character.

I don't think that's very fair to say. Just because a wrestler doesn't use any extraordinary amount of holds doesn't mean he doesn't have any ability. Guys like Kawada or Misawa never had the biggest movesets in the world, yet they appear on far more lists of this type than (say) Low-Ki. Wrestling is about connecting with your audience, not do as many moves as possible. Watch Austin's match with Benoit on Smackdown in May 2001; it doesn't feature that many different moves, but I wouldn't hesitate to call it the best match to take place in the US so far this century. Psychology is a major part of being a great wrestler too, and those who has the best psychology doesn't need to use as many moves to make their matches top-notch.
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To be honest I call what Austin did as I mentioned the punches then the double bird as wrestling NOT sports entertainment.Wrestlers have been doing their little bits during matches for decades before the Vince sports entertainment term was phrased see Gergeous George and his strut during matches, or Flair and his whooo after chopping the shit out of an opponent its working the crowd and playing off who your character is.regards nate holynski

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but I think a wrestler has to do more than kick, punch and give the double bird, that is sports entertainment. Sure the whole industry is now classed as sports entertainment but we have to look past the shiny coating to see the actual abilities of the man behind the character rather than the performance of the character.

I don't think that's very fair to say. Just because a wrestler doesn't use any extraordinary amount of holds doesn't mean he doesn't have any ability. Guys like Kawada or Misawa never had the biggest movesets in the world, yet they appear on far more lists of this type than (say) Low-Ki. Wrestling is about connecting with your audience, not do as many moves as possible. Watch Austin's match with Benoit on Smackdown in May 2001; it doesn't feature that many different moves, but I wouldn't hesitate to call it the best match to take place in the US so far this century. Psychology is a major part of being a great wrestler too, and those who has the best psychology doesn't need to use as many moves to make their matches top-notch.
Sorry I thought we were talking about purely the ability to pull off moves but looking back to Mr Leap's original post which I now notice has Shawn Michaels on it I guess not.
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What is the reasoning behind putting him in a Top 25 let alone a Top 10?

Because people are basically just picking their favourite wrestlers.
Thats fine, picking your favs heck I did that, but they have to have some substance as to why Doug Williams is so high on the list, instead of renound Hall Of Famers and legends in our sport.regards nate holynski
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What is the reasoning behind putting him in a Top 25 let alone a Top 10?

Because people are basically just picking their favourite wrestlers.
Thats fine, picking your favs heck I did that, but they have to have some substance as to why Doug Williams is so high on the list, instead of renound Hall Of Famers and legends in our sport.regards nate holynski
I totally agree. I mean even if you are an RVD mark how can you possibly claim he is one of the best in-ring wrestlers of the last 20 years?
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I think Austin's inclusion is an interesting one, and someone I don't personally think belongs in a top ten list of in-ring workers between 1980 and 2003. Sure, he had many great matches over the years, but his in-ring work in comparison to many others over that period simply doesn't match up.He was a solid worker his first two years in the business. Between 1992 and 1995, he was very good, but there were at least fifty other wrestlers who were out-performing him in the ring during that era. Between 1996 and 1997, he entered some tremendous performances, and his non-wrestling work was awesome. Between 1998 and 2000, Austin was very hit and miss, though his various injuries were possibly to blame for this. He had a helluva 2001, before enduring a frustrating 2002. He really did bugger all this year, and that seems to be that.So, by my reckoning, he had three excellent in-ring years, as well as another four good/very-good years. Compared to people like Tenryu, Hansen, Aja Kong, Kyoko Inoue, Dynamite Kid and Tsuruta, who didn't make my list, he didn't have their kind of consistency or longevity as a world-class in-ring worker.If this thread took into account all aspects of pro wrestling, then Austin would definitely have made my top ten. For in-ring efforts, definitely not.

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Ric Flair - Had more great matches with more varied opponents than probably anyone in the last 20 or so years.Shawn Michaels - Took on Flair's mantle in the mid 90s with a string of bravura performances with any number of talentless stiffs.Bret Hart - Have to agree with Vince McMahon's assessment of Hart as one of the absolute best storytellers in wrestling ever. Credible as they come.Steve Austin - Either "Stone Cold" or "Stunning" actually. Fantastic in-ring competitor who has shown great adaptability to work as a technical wrestler or a brawler, and as a face or heel - and still excel at it all.Chris Benoit - On sheer in-ring ability, Benoit has proven time and time again that he is one of the most gifted performers of his generation.Tatsumi "The Dragon" Fujinami - For my money perhaps the greatest wrestler in New Japan history. I know I say this about Toryumon's Susumu Yokosuka a lot... but Fujinami really IS the Japanese Ric Flair.Jushin "Thunder" Liger - Took what was innovated by Fujinami and Sayama to a whole new level. The greatest Jr Heavyweight competitor of all time. He's been at the top of his game for more than 15 years... and I actually mean the ABSOLUTE top. Liger is still the standard bearer for excellence in Jr Heavyweight wrestling in 2003.Osamu Nishimura - As far as I am concerned, he has the most beautiful and exquisite ring work in the world today. An absolute joy to watch. A technician par excellence.Kenta Kobashi - The best "big match" performer in Japanese pro wrestling probably ever. It says something that Highspots produced an EIGHT tape compilation of Kobashi matches, and people were STILL complaining that there weren't enough matches being shown in their entirety.Mitsuharu Misawa - The final choice was a tough one, but Misawa got the nod for his consistancy and his unparallelled series of matches with both Kawada & Misawa.$tew

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Hm..So, do you guys see all the Japanese wrestling via tapes? I'm curious, since so many people have Japanese wrestlers, would anyone mind recommending me the best promotion to get started on and any shows in particular?Anyways, bearing in mind all I've had is the WWE for the past 5 years, in no particular order.Kurt AngleChris BenoitMick Foley Eddie GuerreroSteve AustinChris JerichoShawn MichaelsTriple H - I enjoyed him too much in 99, 2000 and 2001 to leave him out. He absolutely reeks now, but he was definitely my favourite back then.Really can't be bothered to think of the full 10, those are my favourites to watch in the ring.

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