Wrestling with Politics

[Merzbow]

With the state of the world and especially America right now there's probably a good enough reason to have a general thread dedicated to current day politics affecting wrestling outside of the #MeToo and Vince threads, for example earlier in the month an independant wrestler Nicolth Hernandez-Lucero was detained indefinitely by ICE despite her being legal and permitted to work in the country. A student of UKFF favourite Gangrel, he's also shared a gofundme to help with legal fees https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-free-nicolth-legal-support-needed

I sadly won't be surprised if we hear of stories like this more often, especially with wrestlers coming over to work from outside the country.

[BomberPat]

Aside from the boost they got from Tanahashi's retirement, I'm not sure NJPW are in a good enough state to start recruiting that heavily anyway, and the Yen is so weak that they'd struggle to compete with the US companies in terms of where to make money. It's a bad spot all round, but if I were an international wrestler I'd definitely be thinking twice about travelling to the States right now, even if it means slowing things down on your career prospects - I'd be curious to see if any other country's scene gets a boost out of that, but I don't expect it will. 

[Lorne Malvo]

I've always wondered why Japan is seen as more of a destination to upcoming young wrestlers than Mexico? You don't hear of many young guys going to Mexico for a couple of years to learn that style (instead it seems to be a place where wrong-uns go for a payday after nobody else will touch them) but I would've thought as it's a country with a long wrestling history and tradition there would've been ample opportunity to get on the circuit over there and wind up with a CMLL or AAA job. 

Is it just a case that it's a less glamorous destination than Japan, or are Mexican promotions not really that bothered about hiring foreign talent?

[Carbomb]

9 minutes ago, Lorne Malvo said:

I've always wondered why Japan is seen as more of a destination to upcoming young wrestlers than Mexico? You don't hear of many young guys going to Mexico for a couple of years to learn that style (instead it seems to be a place where wrong-uns go for a payday after nobody else will touch them) but I would've thought as it's a country with a long wrestling history and tradition there would've been ample opportunity to get on the circuit over there and wind up with a CMLL or AAA job. 

Is it just a case that it's a less glamorous destination than Japan, or are Mexican promotions not really that bothered about hiring foreign talent?

I was always under the impression it was because it was less well paid, perceived as less safe, and because of how different it is as a style - IIRC, luchadors wrestle on the opposite side, i.e. lock up the opposite way, Irish whip/run the ropes on the opposite of the opponent, hit clotheslines with the right, etc.

EDIT: Also, there's a perception that lucha is sloppy and riddled with mistakes and botches, whereas Japan is seen as the place where you go if you want to get technically good.

Edited February 24 by Carbomb
Raimond van der Gouw

[Merzbow]

15 minutes ago, Lorne Malvo said:

I've always wondered why Japan is seen as more of a destination to upcoming young wrestlers than Mexico?

Which is funny as Japan seems to view Mexico as the better destination than the USA, most good excursions take place over there below the border.

[BomberPat]

Historically, Japan paid very well - doing a few weeks touring for Giant Baba was as good a payday as you could get as an American wrestler in the '80s.

Japan is also, somewhat counterintuitively when you consider the relative geographies of the three countries, historically much more wedded to American wrestling - it was American wrestlers and promoters who introduced pro-wrestling to Japan, who provided Japan with most of their non-native talent, provided excursions for Japanese wrestlers to learn their craft, and so on. One of the side-effects of that is that English is still largely the language of pro-wrestling in Japan - the referees count in English, move names are called in English, most wrestlers have a passable familiarity with the language, so it's easier to integrate there. Of people I know who have worked there more recently, a big part of the draw is the training too - chances are you're not just being brought in to work a few shows, but to spend a load of time at the dojo, so there's just a much more concentrated amount of time spent honing your craft.

I expect there's a Meltzer/tastemaker element to it even after the finances shifted, too - it's Misawa and Kobashi totting up all the five star matches, being emulated by the big indie names, influencing the pace and style of American wrestling this century, so there has to be an appeal to following that style back to its source.

 

It's a conversation I've had with promoters and wrestlers in this country too. There's a yearly Lucha Libre show at York Hall that draws brilliant crowds, largely of people who have never attended a BritWres show, and there's little to no effort by British promoters to try and capture that audience or even recognise that they exist. While Japanese wrestling has a lot of appeal to the wrestling hardcores, Lucha Libre is so much more present in the culture - you can go to almost any city in this country and find a Mexican restaurant or takeaway that uses a Lucha mask in its logo, or Lucha posters and imagery in its decor, and if you mention Mexican wrestling in conversation, there's always going to be at least one person who says, "oh yeah, Nacho Libre!". It just exists in pop culture to a far greater extent than Japanese wrestling ever has, it's far more saleable, and Lucha seems to exist in a different section of people's minds to wrestling, so a first-timer is more likely to see it as a fun cultural event all of its own, bypassing the "isn't it all fake?" question about just plain old wrestling. So you'd think that there would be much more of an effort to build up relationships with Lucha promotions the same way we have with Japan, and to work with individual luchadores more - the problem there is that, without fail, every single promoter I know who has worked with luchadores has horror stories about it. Even by the standards of wrestling, Lucha is a nest of con artists and grifters who will promise you one thing and then turn around and demand more before they got on the plane, who will double-book themselves, go into business for themselves, and prioritise themselves over the audience or the promoter - it's just a completely different way of doing business, even without the clashes of style and language.

I do think we'll see that change - in the last 5-6 years Lucha has been a lot more visible on the US indies outside of the usual obvious hotspots, and I think the increased visibility of CMLL as a prestigious place to work, and potentially of AAA even if just as a route to WWE, will start to change people's minds somewhat. But there will always be the sense that because Lucha does things differently, that it's doing it wrong.

 

20 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

Which is funny as Japan seems to view Mexico as the better destination than the USA, most good excursions take place over there below the border.

I think the key is that Japanese promotions value long-standing arrangements, and there aren't many left with the US - maybe we'll start to see NJPW sending younger talent to AEW on excursion, but I doubt AEW have much interest in that being part of their partnership. Whereas the CMLL deal has been in place forever, and they still send people to work over here even when we barely have the infrastructure to work with them, just because British wrestling was historically a good place for them to learn their craft.

[Merzbow]

You'd have to feel that New Japan is also a little burnt due latter day WCW and then TNA deals never working in their favour, you've even got current day wrestlers openly saying the AEW relationship doesn't do much in favour of NJPW either. The geopolitical situation is just the horrible icing on the cake.

[BomberPat]

I'm not sure how much of guys like Yota Tsuji saying the relationship doesn't do much for NJPW is kayfabe, to be honest; it's an exercise in building people up as someone the audience can trust is sticking around, and is prepared to represent the brand. What I have heard is that NJPW get paid pretty well by AEW for their working arrangement, so they definitely get something out of it.