Ranking The WrestleManias - The Middle 10

[Liam O'Rourke]

This week we are doing Part 2 in our series of podcasts debating the rankings for all 30 WrestleManias in order, from worst to first in blocks of ten, and would like to get some feedback to read on the shows.

I've written an article on what I feel are the middle 10 (if you're interested you can read it here: http://steelchair.co.uk/ranking-the-wrestlemanias-the-middle-10), and want to hear what agreements or disagreements people have with it, what they would rank higher or lower, and why.

For those who don't want to read the whole article, the middle 10 are:

#20 - WrestleMania 18 (2002)
#19 - WrestleMania 13 (1997)
#18 - WrestleMania 12 (1996)
#17 - WrestleMania 25 (2009)
#16 - WrestleMania 26 (2010)
#15 - WrestleMania 16 (2000)
#14 - WrestleMania 7 (1991)
#13 - WrestleMania 8 (1992)
#12 - WrestleMania 24 (2008)
#11 - WrestleMania 22 (2006)

We'll be debating the order on the shows and reading your responses and crediting you accordingly, so what do you think?

 

EDIT - Just to update, the podcast discussing this list is now up at: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/play/w7ueqx/SCGRadio32-RankingtheWrestleManias-TheMiddle10.mp3

[HarmonicGenerator]

I love the phrase 'plunder brawl' you use when describing the WM13 Street Fight. I'll be using that from now on!

[air_raid]

Here's some thoughts (apologies for recycling a joke or two from the other thread) ;

 

WrestleMania XVIII is a shocking show where going in I had very limited expectations and on the night it lived down to them. The premier stars of the WWF at the time were Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Kurt Angle and The Undertaker, and for the biggest show of the year they should have been wrestling each other. Yes, any combination of those wrestlers is a match that inevitably would have happened on PPV in 2000 or 2001, and maybe that speaks volumes that enough hadn't been done to create new main eventers, but nevertheless, it feels like everybody worth watching is wasted on either an opponent limited by age or injuries (Hogan, Flair, Hall) or obviously below them on the totem pole (Kane, Jericho). While Rock/Hogan on the night did deliver a good slice of spectacle, the rest of the show is forgettable at best, terrible at worst. A guy like Kurt Angle being thrown out there with Kane with little build is unforgivable, and at this point I considered the Undertaker only worth watching against a younger guy that could work around his sluggish, methodical style - that wasn't Ric Flair, and I found that match dull as ditchwater. Trips and Jericho's mind-numbing "work the leg" match was a fitting end to a pretty rubbish show, which was an utterly pointless main event as nobody on the face of the Earth thought Jericho might win, in part due to the fact that he'd actually feuded with Steph's dog while Hunter himself mostly feuded with his wife. And in part due to the fact that Jericho's entire title reign had been presented as little more than a fluke, giving no doubt that Triple H would crush him. And crush him he did. I would have ranked this lower than 5 or 6 because both of those shows had much more FUN to the watching, and this had hardly any, outside of Rock/Hogan.

 

WrestleMania XIII I have little to add to the obvious praise of the Bret/Austin match and how disappointing most of the card was. Sid/Taker was hampered by the fact they had started to build towards the match in December on Raw (in a really good angle where Sid interrupted a Shawn/Bret face to face stating "I want some real competition" - GONG!) but then forgot about it in the interim. Mania 13 couldn't hope to recover from the collapse of the planned booking caused by Shawn's injury/"injury" and would at least have felt like it had some build if Hart/Michaels and Austin/Bulldog, both of which had been building since autumn, had happened on the show, and Sid/Undertaker would have received the attention that a Mania main event warrants. Although of course, if Shawn had not been out of the show, Hitman vs Stone Cold would not have happened and the entire course of company history would have been changed, probably not for the better.

 

WrestleMania XII - This should have been in the bottom 10, because there is nothing on it to enjoy or worth celebrating. The Iron Man match may be the most contentious match in company history, and for me it's the worst waste of Pay Per View time in company history. Even as a kid and as a massive Bret Hart fan, I knew from the second HBK's comeback for the Rumble was confirmed, that he'd be taking the belt at WrestleMania, so sitting there waiting 60 minutes for it to happen was an utter chore. The booking of Shawn not to beat the champion inside the pre-determined time limit is questionable in respect to "going all the way" with Shawn and while I appreciate it was meant to add spice to the potential rematch, surely "You took my belt" is enough reason for the pair to fight again, without the convoluted ending? Either way, watching the match in highlight form really underlines that you're potentially watching the highlights of one of the best 25-30 minute matches you'll ever see, stretched out to 60 minutes with interminable chinlocks and short-arm scissors.

 

There's nothing to redeem it underneath. Everything is either boring (Diesel/Taker, Austin/Vega) or silly (Piper/Goldust) with only the opener giving a bit of fun, and even that feels a bit of a waste as Yokozuna/Vader should have been one-on-one for the biggest show of the year. Other than the nostalgia of Warrior coming back, the only thing I like about WrestleMania 12 is Sunny's tits, and they don't count because they were Free For All. So to speak.

 

WrestleMania XXV

Another show of waste, for the most part. Triple H/Orton had a very good storyline behind it but was completely hamstrung by a lame stipulation, Cena and Edge had their feud reheated as an afterthought to give both something to do at the big one - JOHN CENA A FUCKING AFTERTHOUGHT - and there was no excuse whatsoever for booking a guy as popular as Jeff Hardy with his loser, midcarder-for-life brother just a few months after he broke the glass ceiling and won the WWE title. This was Jeff's LAST WrestleMania at the peak of his popularity and he deserved something so much bigger. Thankfully Jericho and Ricky Steamboat sparkled in their exchange, and Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker was a fantastic match. Admittedly I don't rate it as high as some because there was zero suspension of disbelief for me that Shawn would win and I was a little vexed that the "mortal" Shawn Michaels was permitted to kick out of the Tombstone, but it was still one of the best matches in WrestleMania history if not company history.

 

WrestleMania XXVI

We're edging towards "good show" territory at last. Undertaker and Shawn again got the plaudits, although Shawn surviving a Tombstone on the floor was frankly ridiculous. Seriously, I can't believe the match doesn't get torn apart for the nonsense of that spot. That spot finished Jake The Snake, for Christ's sake, yet Michaels gets back in the ring and at points is allowed to look like he might win! Utter bollocks, for me. But still, an exciting match by the end. The card is marred by Punk/Rey not getting enough time and far too much time being allocated to Bret/Vince (which should have been a short/swift pummeling, not a story). Cena/Batista was better than I thought it would be although I was surprised that Jericho/Edge didn't "pop" the way I thought it might, and I found the decision to not have Edge win a bit confusing. There is more waste on the card as the booking of Orton and Legacy was ass-backwards and due to the mis-handling of the feud, nobody gave the kids a chance of beating the Viper. Trips and Sheamus is refreshingly good and sets up a rematch nicely, and in general the show isn't terrible.

 

I've said my piece on WrestleMania XVI

 

 

 

16 is really poor in the context of the year it was in

 

BINGO. I've snipped the rest because it's defending the show, which I have no intention of doing.

 

No show in the history of the WWF disappointed me more than WrestleMania 16, because the roster had never been stronger and the TV was enjoyable every week, the Pay Per Views were enjoyable and they should have had no problem whatsoever knocking out a Mania that even if it wasn't memorable for other reasons, at least could have delivered a card of great matches. I have no idea who looked at that card and thought "that'll be ace." It looks like the prototype for the modern "get everyone on the card whether they deserve it or not." Maybe I just hate it because I think of Mania as where you have your big feuds blown off in the biggest singles matches you can do and short of The Kat vs Terri, there isn't a bastard singles match to be seen, but it's more than that.

 

It's a feast of inconsequential tag matches and a battle royal underneath that don't do anything for me, the crowd seem muted for both falls of Angle/Benoit/Jericho which both feel rushed, and to be honest losing both belts without having to be pinned (while I appreciate what they were going for with Kurt being a crybaby at the end) wasn't exactly the big "heel comeuppance" I would have liked for him. If the cage match that Kane and X-Pac had at Armageddon wasn't going to be their blow off (and it should have been) then surely they should have saved their last singles match for Mania rather than throw it out at No Way Out and have the pair of them meet again in a Pete Rose comedy tag.

 

The main event left a real bad taste in my mouth from the moment it was set up as Mick Foley was pissing away what had been a superb bowing out at No Way Out and I thought him and Big Show belonged nowhere near the main event which SHOULD have been Rock executing Triple H and taking his place back at the summit where he belonged. THAT'S WrestleMania. The match itself was plodding and meandering at points and by the end I just wanted it to be over, and when it did end, it was the wrong ending. Fucked me off no end, it literally felt like they were going for unpredictable for the sake of it. Literally the only thing on that Mania I choose to watch again, ever, is the tag team title ladder match, which for a 2000 PPV is amazing, never mind Wrestle-fucking-Mania. It's a limp B show in my eyes and virtually every other PPV of the year had either better matches, more noteworthy occurrences, or both.

 

 

 

WrestleMania VII is just fuckloads of fun. The heels mostly get twatted in the way that in the Hulkamania "it's for kids" era, SHOULD have been the way it ran. Your stories end with the good guys winning. Hogan, Warrior, Boss Man, LOD, Bulldog, the Rockers... even the Texas Tornado wins, for crying out loud! It's just bucketloads of feelgood. It also delivers in the ring. Ignoring the obvious (Savage/Warrior, the opener), Harts/Nasty Boys is a very good match, Perfect and Boss Man work their arses off, and the full version of Bulldog vs Warlord (not the hacked up version from the VHS release) is one of my favourite underrated matches from a storytelling point of view - the way Warlord looks at his hands after Davey breaks the full nelson is great, the pop when Bulldog picks him up for the powerslam spine-tingling. Yes, there are a few duds and there was no point Tito and The Mountie even going to the ring, but on the whole, it's enjoyable from start to finish.

 

WrestleMania VIII I'm going to keep this one brief - any show that has two matches as well-crafted and dramatic as Flair/Savage and Piper/Hitman deserves to be rated very highly. A lot of the rest is take it or leave it - but those two matches will keep you coming back time and time again. It's a fun time for the company anyway so the rewatch value is decent, but THOSE TWO MATCHES.

 

WrestleMania XXIV

Edge vs Undertaker is a superb main event, but there is lots about this show I don't like. Batista/Umaga is just "there" in a manner unbecoming of Big Dave, Cena's big title revenge match with Orton has been hidden away in the middle of the card with an unwelcome insertion of Triple H, and personally speaking, I hated Michaels/Flair. Another match where there was no suspension of disbelief in terms of the result, and aside from the (cheesy) ending, the match itself is actually a mess. I understand that drama and storytelling are more important than crisp execution and your MOVEZ! always looking good, but there comes a limit, and this match for me was a wreck. There's only one match on Mania 24 I choose to watch again.

 

WrestleMania XXII

This surprises me that it comes so high. The main event is a fantastic piece of work, there is no denying that. Edge vs Foley is very enjoyable but again suffers from "obvious winner" syndrome, and two of the most gifted and valuable WrestleMania performers ever, Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker, are wasted on opponents that shouldn't be occupying their time at WrestleMania. In fact, between Orton, Rey and Kurt Angle being out there in a pathetically short triple threat match, and Edge, Shawn and Taker being in the ring with opponents they were OBVIOUSLY going to beat, it feels as though the only participants that got chance to really accomplish something were Hunter and Cena. I did enjoy watching the show, but not "11th best Mania of all time" enjoyed it.

 

 

ENDUT, HOCH HECH

[Jon-Carr_92]

Doesn't it seem in recent years there's about 3 or 4 ok or bad WrestleManias for every good one?

[air_raid]

Doesn't it seem in recent years there's about 3 or 4 ok or bad WrestleManias for every good one?

 

Yeah. At the end of 29 in particular my mate's review was "For a WrestleMania.... it was a decent SummerSlam."

[Glass Smash]

We had 3 great WrestleMania's in a row with 17,18 and 19. They were just fucking awesome in my opinion. Although Triple H Vs Jericho was an awful main event.

[Glass Smash]

It actually still bugs me why they never put the womens title on Trish at Mania 18 in Canada, but yet they put it on her the next night on Raw, surely it would've been a bigger deal to do it on the grand stage for a better pop. Just made no sense.

[TheShowOff]

The intro for Wrestlemania 18 with Saliva playing Superstar to a highlight package was the second best thing on the show.

[Liam O'Rourke]

We had 3 great WrestleMania's in a row with 17,18 and 19. They were just fucking awesome in my opinion. Although Triple H Vs Jericho was an awful main event.

So where do you think it should sit?

 

And air_raid, your comments and feedback in the other thread are greatly appreciated, just awesome stuff...

[neil is brill]

I'm liking these reviews, but for Wrestlemania 2000 it says that Triple H was the first heel to win a Wrestlemania main event. Isn't Yokozuna defeating Bret Hart at WM9 considered the main event due to the impromptu Hogan title win?

[Dr.PeterVenkman]

Hunter was the first heel to leave with the belt, I suppose the fans sort of got a happy ending with Rock twatting everyone afterwards but still the first time Mania had had a non happy ever after ending

 

As I always point out when Mania 16 is mentioned, HHH retaining lead to Backlash doing monster business, in fact is it the biggest drawing non big 4 PPV they've ever done?

[Liam O'Rourke]

Invasion was bigger at 775,000, but that's an anomoly.

[air_raid]

As I always point out when Mania 16 is mentioned, HHH retaining lead to Backlash doing monster business, in fact is it the biggest drawing non big 4 PPV they've ever done?

 

That's the business justification for the decision, and it's perfectly logical. And Backlash was very satisfying to watch. However, both these factors don't detract from the ending to WrestleMania 16 feeling flat and anti-climactic and best, "swerve for the sake of swerve" at worst. Nobody seems to have touched either on how stupid it seemed at the time Vince would side with the guy that corrupted his daughter and beat the shit out of him just a couple of months earlier. Even the subsequent explanation on TV was a bit crap, but at Mania itself it was "that just doesn't make sense." Or a re-tread of "Vince is actually the Higher Power - and you thought he was a goodie! Fuck you!"

[Dr.PeterVenkman]

Agree about the swerve being shit, didn't Vince say in a promo the night after Mania that he did it because Rock never said thanks for Vince making him a star?

 

I would say the swerve got them where they needed to be but that's Nash's defence of the fingerpoke of doom

 

Thinking about it, putting Vince and Shane in the stable (along with the stooges) did dilute Triple H's star power a bit, when it was just DX + Steph (and Tori I suppose) they were quite a fresh top level heel group, after Mania they were just Corporation 2.0

[Glass Smash]

Totally agree with Air Raid on the Mania 16 score, there was no need to add Foley into the main event making the No Way Out match look redundant storyline wise. It didn't take long before they eliminated Big Show from the match anyway, all just so they could bill it as a McMahon in every corner. Looking back WrestleMania 16 really was just thrown together horseshit.