UFC 150: 'Henderson vs Edgar 2'

[Bus Surfer]

Dana also said he's not a judge and Benson won the fight. You can't blame Henderson either. He might have not looked his best, but he had no say in the decision. It's all on the judges.

 

I think we all have said that we think Edgar won, and no one is denying him his right to fight at Lighweight, but the situation at 155 can't be helped and it needs to move forward. We've had 3 re-matches in a row. Edgar is now 1-3 in his last 4 fights and with the division being so stacked, it would smart of him to think about 145.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Edgar is now 1-3 in his last 4 fights and with the division being so stacked, it would smart of him to think about 145.

Well, one of those "3" was a draw, it could easily be looked at as 2-2.

 

Going to 145 would move Edgar away from his now stagnant position as a fighter, he won't be getting 155lb contender fights any time soon. Edgar mentioned that at the presser and Dana didn't disagree.

 

I don't know how good it would be for Edgar though. He won't be outsizing any FWs. He walks around at 155 and 5'6, there's a lot of taller fighters in the FW division that are heavier before the cut (160-165). He won't have a speed advantage over many, or a power advantage over any really. He has his wrestling, but a lot of the FW are better at subs off their back than the guys he's fought at LW.

[Bus Surfer]

Yeah, I should have said he's won 1 out of his last 4.

[The Natural]

So far we

[Heartbreak Kid]

So far we

[Egg Shen]

Throw me in the hat for 49-46 Edgar, although round 3 was razor close. It was a frustrating fight to watch in that it became a bit of a point scoring striking match, odd shots landing here and there with very little happening in the way of the real damage. In that respect i can probably see why the judges leaned toward Henderson because as they always say a close round will usually go to the champ. Neither man really put a stamp on the fight and that's always frustrating to see when there's so much at stake.

 

Arguing is pointless though, i think the rematch thing has run it's course now and that's why you don't see Dana moaning...if this was the first Henderson/Edgar fight you can guarantee there'd be a rematch (i personally didn't feel Frankie should have gotten this one) but Dana's got the 'lets just move forward' attitude about it and i like that because the division feels like it's been held in limbo for years.

 

Speaking of going forward though i prefer Henderson/Diaz to a Edgar/Diaz fight so i aint sad about it.

 

Frankie Edgar seems stubborn to stay at 155 but i feel he's gonna need to go out and finish a fight or two to be put back in contention. It's a real awkward spot but there's no end of challengers he can go up against at 155.

 

Fight was standard outside of the excellent 90 seconds of Cerrone/Guillard, no real surprises. Shields looked how he always looks when he's dominating, Okami sensed danger against Roberts and took an easy path to victory and Holloway really announced himself as a potential future challenger at 145.

 

Speaking of Cerrone/Guillard, it really was a mental little fight. I loved watching the body language of Guillard though, he genuinely looked like he was bricking it, especially in the staredown. It even looked like after Guillard hurt Cerrone he had a 'oh fuck, now he's mad' look about him...Cerrone's a insanely hard man to put away and when Guillard failed to do so it looked like the writing was on the wall for ol' Melvin. Great comeback.

[Egg Shen]

...one other point from the prelims, i think Jared Hamman needs to seriously overhaul his fighting style or he needs to retire. I don't think ever seen anyone get his with as many damaging head strikes as that guy, every fight he gets fucking battered. Its tough to watch.

[David]

Speaking of Cerrone/Guillard, it really was a mental little fight. I loved watching the body language of Guillard though, he genuinely looked like he was bricking it, especially in the staredown. It even looked like after Guillard hurt Cerrone he had a 'oh fuck, now he's mad' look about him...Cerrone's a insanely hard man to put away and when Guillard failed to do so it looked like the writing was on the wall for ol' Melvin. Great comeback.

The one thing I'd say about Cerrone, and it was proved in the Diaz and Guillard fight, is that he's easy to hit. It's for this reason that I'd pick Pettis to take him out completely.

 

I wouldn't see that fight going past two frames, and I don't see it ending well for the cowboy.

[wandshogun09]

Was away for the weekend so only just watched it now. I had it 49-46 Edgar as well. It's amazing how we're all pretty much unanimous in the scoring for this fight. Usually there's a few who go the other way. Felt bad for Frankie.

 

It was one of those things where, rightly or wrongly, I think if you want to win the title you've got to do a bit more. In fact, I'd go as far as to say if Frankie was the champion going into that fight, and everything happened exactly the same way, he would have won the decision.

 

I know what you're saying but I've always strongly disagreed with the "You have to really dominate the champ to win the belt" mentality. Where does that fit into the 10-9 scoring system? Does the challenger have to win every round 10-8 to win a decision? I know that's not what you're saying but I don't get how that philosophy translates to scoring a fight.

 

Whoever wins the most rounds should get the decision, regardless of whether he's the champion or challenger and regardless of whether he 'clearly' wins them or eeks them out. The champion shouldn't be given an advantage before the fight even starts that if it goes the distance every close round goes to him. It's lazy judging.

 

Not having a pop at you, just always hated that line of thinking in title fights. It's been trotted out for years in both Boxing and MMA and I've never agreed with it.

 

Max Hollaway is a very interesting prospect, alongwith Jimmy Hettes I think the two of them are the most promising young guns in the UFC.

 

Agreed. I've been singing the praises of Jim Hettes ever since he fought Bruce Leeroy on the prelims a while back. Then the fight with Nam Phan he looked phenomenal as well. He's one to watch.

 

Was really impressed with Holloway as well. They fed him straight to Poirier on his debut and he didn't embarrass himself there despite a losing effort. He's only 20 and he's looking good already, give him another 2-3 years and he could be something special I reckon. Showed great patience and when he had Lawrence hurt he was relentless. Loved the body shot finish.

 

It wasnt as exciting as the Japan fight, but I felt Edgar clearly won and my Edgar fanboy blinders stop me from seeing how Henderson was scored to have won 3 rounds.

 

Yeah I thought the Japan fight was much more exciting. This was still good but the first one was better for sure.

 

I did love Bendo's headkick from his back though

 

 

And the bit when Frankie dropped Benson in one of the rounds. But yeah, it turned into a bit of a chess match with neither really grabbing the fight by the bollocks.

 

Buddy Roberts was surprising. It was pretty clear to everyone that he would lose, but that shouldn't have included him. He gave up the moment it hit the ground, didn't even try and move or do anything besides let Okami punch his arms. It was the opportunity of a lifetime, he should have went for broke.

 

To be fair though, I was pretty impressed with Roberts on the feet. He looked like a fish out of water on the ground but he was giving Okami a bit of a rough time standing to the point where I was actually starting to picture a Boetsch-like TKO again. Okami was smart to take him down.

 

I think we all have said that we think Edgar won, and no one is denying him his right to fight at Lighweight, but the situation at 155 can't be helped and it needs to move forward. We've had 3 re-matches in a row. Edgar is now 1-3 in his last 4 fights and with the division being so stacked, it would smart of him to think about 145.

 

Yeah there's no doubt Frankie's a top 155er. I don't think David or anyone else here is disputing that. No-one's saying he's not skilled enough, I'd say he beats most of the division still. But with Benson holding the title he's not likely to be in the running for a shot anytime soon.

 

The 145 class isn't exactly bursting with names either. One or two impressive wins at 145 and I could see Edgar getting a crack at the title there. Who knows how he'd do. People are right to say he wouldn't have such a speed advantage and not really much of a size advantage but the flip side of that is he would finally be fighting against guys who are about his size. Bendo and Gray Maynard are fucking monsters for LW and look how well he did against them. Frankie fighting guys who don't have so much size on him would be very interesting.

 

Few other quick thoughts

 

*Cerrone vs Guillard was about as fun a 1 minute fight as you'll see. I really thought Melvin had him for a sec. Always been a fan but I'm a Cerrone fan as well and to be honest I'm glad Cowboy won because I really, really, really want to see Cerrone vs Pettis and it looks like that's on tap now

 

*Shields looked much better to me at 185. People are moaning about it being boring but Shields has always fought that way. If he can't submit you easily he'll happily just dominate you until the fight ends. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to people that he fought that way. What did surprise me was how Herman kept clinching with him, effectively nullifying his advantage in the striking. But there's no doubt Shields looked better than he has at 170 for me. Herman's no joke and is in pretty good form currently and Shields shut him down. Wasn't pretty but he got it done.

 

*Dennis Bermudez looked impressive. With the face fur and longer hair he reminded me of Roberto Duran a bit to look at. Survived the scare with the knee and came back for the finish. Looks good but as he even admitted, he does get caught a lot. I'm not sure how far he'll go when he gets in there with the higher level guys if he's getting tagged like this so consistently.

 

*Erik Perez' KO of Ken Stone was fucking brilliant. I like the look of Perez in the two fighs I've seen of him. Ken Stone fought some good fighters as well and did alright against Jorgensen so this was all the more impressive. Good stoppage, Stone defo went limp for a sec.

 

*Kuiper/Hamman was a fun brawl as expected. Kuiper got caught a few times but it was clear he wasn't troubled by Hamman's power and Hamman's defence is shocking. He looked good at the start but once he ate a good shot his chin went straight up and his defence just went out the window for the rest of the fight.

 

Insanely tough though, too tough really. His leg got fucked up bad by the leg kick and he still carried on with one wheel until Kuiper put him away. I was genuinely starting to get worried during the final few shots that Hamman was about to get seriously hurt. He really should either take a long break and work on his defence or walk away and do something else because it's gonna end badly for him imo.

 

Oh and

 

 

Check out that head movement. Shame it abandoned him in the fight.

 

And

 

 

Still don't get the hate.

 

And finally

 

 

 

If it wasn't for GingerBeardMan behind her this gif would be so much better. What a disgusting creature (him, not her).

[Egg Shen]

good lord, what a set of titties.

[wandshogun09]

The one thing I'd say about Cerrone, and it was proved in the Diaz and Guillard fight, is that he's easy to hit. It's for this reason that I'd pick Pettis to take him out completely.

 

I wouldn't see that fight going past two frames, and I don't see it ending well for the cowboy.

 

I'm picking Pettis as well. I think he's the better stiker, more diverse with his attacks and he doesn't get hit too often. I like Pettis on points but one mistake either way and it could be over in the blink of an eye with a strike or submission.

 

Should be a hell of a fight whatever happens. Both really aggressive on the feet, both throw some flashy stuff in and if it goes to the ground they both have attacking submission games from top or bottom.

[Egg Shen]

*Shields looked much better to me at 185. People are moaning about it being boring but Shields has always fought that way. If he can't submit you easily he'll happily just dominate you until the fight ends. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to people that he fought that way. What did surprise me was how Herman kept clinching with him, effectively nullifying his advantage in the striking. But there's no doubt Shields looked better than he has at 170 for me. Herman's no joke and is in pretty good form currently and Shields shut him down. Wasn't pretty but he got it done.

 

*Erik Perez' KO of Ken Stone was fucking brilliant. I like the look of Perez in the two fighs I've seen of him. Ken Stone fought some good fighters as well and did alright against Jorgensen so this was all the more impressive. Good stoppage, Stone defo went limp for a sec.

Perez has to be gutted that he didn't take home the KO of the night bonus, a 17 second KO would usually seal the deal for that prize.

 

As for Shields, yeah it was vintage Shields...he always had a reputation as being one of the most boring yet effective fights in MMA. On the surface he doesn't seem to do anything special, his standup is below average, his wrestling isn't explosive and his jiu jitsu game isn't flashy, but he just has an insane ability to make opponents fight his fight. Herman said post fight that he just couldn't get up from under Shields, he has devastating top control.

 

But i agree that Herman fought the wrong fight, early on i could see why he was gonna try and drain Shields from inside the clinch, it worked early but i thought Shields nicked the first round, when Herman did the same thing in round 2 i just shook my head, poor move...by the time the 3rd round came about Herman was too tired himself to do anything standing.