The Super-Super-Duper Rugby Union thread!

[Up Chuck]

It's up there, but I think yours wins.

 

Anyway! Forgot to mention this as I was in a bit of a rush earlier, but even as a Tigers fan, and a huge fan of the guy in question, I think it's a year too soon for Tom Youngs. He's great in the loose, but he needs to work on his lineout throwing and he's not even a first-team regular at Tigers yet. Cockerill apparently negotiated with Lancaster to keep George Ford out of the senior and under-20s side so he could have a full summer with Tigers, and to be honest I think he should've done the same with Youngs. That said, I imagine he's there purely for the matches against provinces, so hopefully it'll be good experience for him and he'll establish himself a bit more next season.

 

Club-wise, anyone else going to either of the Premiership semis this weekend? My dad, having missed Tigers vs Bath last week due to being in hospital, has gone on a goodwill spree and treated me, my missus and mum to Tigers/Saracens. Can't wait. Although I am incredibly nervous after our last 2 games against them (50-25 home loss while we had our World Cup guys missing and they still had most of their guys who went during the 6 Nations, then a 20-19 win for us down there while they had all their 6 Nations guys missing and we had Toby Flood and Manu Tuilagi coming back from injury before they joined up with England). We'll do it though. We're at home, we'll be up for revenge and we haven't lost a semi-final since they started having two semi-finals.

 

They're opening the bars at Welford Road early so people can go and watch Quins/Northampton too. Neutral rugby fans are in for a bloody treat on Saturday, both these games should be absolute crackers. Not to mention the final!

[PowerButchi]

Anyone watch Ospreys vs Munster tonight? Ospreys played well, especially Ryan Jones, but that's the worst I've ever seen a Munster team play. Farcical. Three dropped passes under little pressure in a row says amateur hour to me, and without POC a Welsh team was stealing their lineout ball. Donncha O'Callaghan had a mare, and KEET RLS was really frail defensively. Ryan Jones and Tipuric was massive today though.In Wales we've always struggled for strength in depth, but Justin Tipuric being behind Sam Our Captain is lovely. Two world class opensides.

[Up Chuck]

Didn't catch it, but Munster don't seem to be doing the big games well this season. They choked big-time against Ulster in the Heineken Cup quarter-final, looked proper shaken. Tigers are gonna be dropping down to 2nd seeds in the HC next year, and to be honest, out of the 1st seed teams, I wouldn't mind Munster these days.What's the deal with the Pro 12 playoffs now? I know it used to be 2nd vs 3rd, winner plays 1st at 1st's ground in the final, but where do they play the final now?Obligatory Tigers matchday comment: OH HOLY FUCK I'M SO NERVOUS

[Up Chuck]

Dunno if I'm gonna be on at all tomorrow and I definitely won't be on Saturday, so I'm posting this now. I'm off to Twickenham on Saturday and I think I'm about a 50-50 split between excited and terrified. Sure, Tigers are the dynasty who peak at the right time as ever, sure we've won our last 11 games, sure we've beaten Quins at their place when we were both at full strength, but it just seems like it could be their day. They finished top and have already shown that they can bounce back (and, crucially, learn) from a significant home defeat (Toulouse in the Heineken Cup). They're apparently having fans meet up with the squad at the Stoop, then making a big deal about walking over to Twickenham (which, fair enough, is a pretty cool gimmick). They're gonna be SO up for this, so much so that I almost feel guilty about being the would-be parade-pissers.

 

But then again, everyone knows the playoffs are there, and everyone knows that's how the competition is won. Furthermore, everyone knows that Tigers peak at this time of the season. And if we must win it this way, if it must be a knockout final where we win the league from 2nd place, I'd want it to be done like this. I want us to have what's practically an away game where we beat the team in 1st to win it.

 

And d'you know what, it's going to be a bloody cracker too. Quins have been playing magnificently and when Tigers have hit their stride, it's shown that we're light years away from sticking it up our jumpers or whatever. We can play. Quins can play. And would you look at that, it just so happens that there's everything to play for. I'm almost slightly envious of neutrals who get to sit back and watch this, but I wouldn't trade my ticket, on my own in a neutral section because it was the cheapest one going and nobody's free to come with me, for anything in the world.

 

Sorry for the ramble, lads. I'm just excited. And nervous. And excited. And nervous. Oh holy christ I love this sport.

 

 

EDIT:

 

82,000 strong. And I'll be there in the top tier. Keep an eye out for me running up and down the stairs like an overexcited child.

[mikey]

Did you see London Welsh reckon they'll sue their way into the top flight?

[Up Chuck]

It's ambitious, I'll give them that. Oxford is a ridiculous place for a London-based side to want to play (and hilariously, is almost as close to Wales as it is to London), but they've got a point with the primacy of tenure business. I really don't like how it's one rule for the clubs already in the Premiership and another for those who want to be.

 

That said, if they do come up and Newcastle go down, the competition will suddenly become a LOT more southern-focussed, which is thumbs down from me. Also we'd end up with the ridiculous situation of FIVE London teams with only one actually playing in London.

 

EDIT: Strong England team to face Barbarians on Sunday! I'm looking forward to this now as well. Can't wait to see how Christian Wade does, he's one of the most exciting prospects in English rugby right now.

 

15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)

14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)

13 Brad Barritt (Saracens)

12 Owen Farrell (Saracens)

11 Christian Wade (London Wasps)

10 Charlie Hodgson (Saracens)

9 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)

 

1 Matt Stevens (Saracens)

2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)

3 Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)

4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)

5 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)

6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)

7 Carl Fearns (Bath Rugby)

8 Phil Dowson (capt, Northampton Saints)

 

Replacements

16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)

17 Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)

18 Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)

19 Jamie Gibson (London Irish)

20 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

21 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)

22 Alex Goode (Saracens)

 

 

EDIT 2: Teams for the Prem final. Ford starts for Leicester, Flood on the bench. Smart money's on Flood getting pulled and replaced with Twelvetrees.

 

Leicester Tigers

15 Geordan Murphy ©

14 Horacio Agulla

13 Manusamoa Tuilagi

12 Anthony Allen

11 Alesana Tuilagi

10 George Ford

9 Ben Youngs

1 Marcos Ayerza

2 George Chuter

3 Dan Cole

4 George Skivington

5 Geoff Parling

6 Steve Mafi

7 Julian Salvi

8 Thomas Waldrom

 

Replacements

16 Tom Youngs

17 Logovi'i Mulipola

18 Martin Castrogiovanni

19 Graham Kitchener

20 Craig Newby

21 Sam Harrison

22 Toby Flood

23 Scott Hamilton

 

 

Harlequins

15 Mike Brown

14 Tom Williams

13 George Lowe

12 Jordan Turner-Hall

11 Ugo Monye

10 Nick Evans

9 Danny Care

1 Joe Marler

2 Joe Gray

3 James Johnston

4 Olly Kohn

5 George Robson

6 Maurie Fa'asavalu

7 Chris Robshaw ©

8 Nick Easter

 

Replacements

16 Rob Buchanan

17 Mark Lambert

18 Will Collier

19 Tomas Vallejos

20 Tom Guest

21 Karl Dickson

22 Rory Clegg

23 Matt Hopper

 

 

There's battles all over the pitch in those starting line-ups - the focus will be on Evans vs Ford, but you've got Youngs vs Care, Cole vs Marler and Salvi vs Robshaw too. However, I reckon Castrogiovanni, Kitchener and Newby coming off the bench for Tigers could be the difference. We've definitely got the stronger bench IMO.

[Up Chuck]

Oops, did I not post after the Prem final? Well, Quins deserved it, we'll be better next year.

 

ANYWAY, it's summer tour time! And what better way to kick it off than looking at Sean Lamont and Scott Lawson's unorthodox celebration of Scotland's win against Australia? (about 8 seconds in)

 

Back to business, here's England's team for South Africa on Saturday:

 

 

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins)

14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)

13 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)

12 Brad Barritt (Saracens)

11 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)

10 Owen Farrell (Saracens)

9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)

2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)

3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)

4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)

5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)

6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)

7 Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)

8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)

 

Replacements

16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)

17 Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)

18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)

19 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)

20 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)

21 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)

22 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)

 

 

Oddest thing there for me is Foden on the wing, but the starts for Marler and Johnson along with the absence of in-form guys like Danny Care and George Low and regulars like Alex Corbisiero suggest that it's gonna be experimental sides for this tour. I like Brown at 15 as I think he's been outplaying Foden for a while now. Would've liked to see Anthony Allen and Christian Wade involved somewhere, but it looks like it's gonna be chop-and-change from game to game so they'll probably get their shot next week.

 

Here's South Africa (copied from Wiki hence the position things):

 

FB 15 Zane Kirchner

RW 14 JP Pietersen

OC 13 Frans Steyn

IC 12 Jean de Villiers ©

LW 11 Bryan Habana

FH 10 Morne Steyn

SH 9 Francois Hougaard

N8 8 Pierre Spies

OF 7 Marcell Coetzee

BF 6 Willem Alberts

RL 5 Juandre Kruger

LL 4 Eben Etzebeth

TP 3 Jannie du Plessis

HK 2 Bismarck du Plessis

LP 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Replacements:

HK 16 Adriaan Strauss

PR 17 Coenie Oosthuizen

LK 18 Flip van der Merwe

FL 19 Keegan Daniel

SH 20 Ruan Pienaar

FH 21 Patrick Lambie

FB 22 Wynand Olivier

 

And while I'm at it, here's Australia for Wales:

 

FB 15 Adam Ashley-Cooper

RW 14 Joseph Tomane

OC 13 Rob Horne

IC 12 Pat McCabe

LW 11 Digby Ioane

FH 10 Berrick Barnes

SH 9 Will Genia

N8 8 Wycliff Palu

OF 7 David Pocock ©

BF 6 Scott Higginbotham

RL 5 Nathan Sharpe

LL 4 Rob Simmons

TP 3 Sekope Kepu

HK 2 Tatafu Polota-Nau

LP 1 Benn Robinson

Replacements:

HK 16 Stephen Moore

PR 17 Ben Alexander

FL 18 Dave Dennis

FL 19 Michael Hooper

SH 20 Nic White

C 21 Anthony Fainga'a

UB 22 Mike Harris

 

So, how do you guys rate your team's chances down under? I think Wales have the best shot of coming back with something, but I'm not writing England off. We've got some exciting prospects. I can't wait to see Christian Wade in a proper international, and guys like Farrell and Parling could use this tour to really cement themselves after impressive 6 Nations performances. I don't expect England to win every game, but I don't see much reason why we can't win any one of them.

[Slapnut]

Heartbreaking result for Wales vs. Australia today. Reminded me of Wales/SA in the World Cup.

 

However, what the fuck did Rhys Priestland expect to achieve by kicking the ball away at 79 minutes? Absolutely idiotic decision there.

[matbro1984]

I will be sulking about today for a long time.

 

Rhys Priestland was utterly, utterly dreadful today. What an idiotic decision at the end

 

Warburton, it pains me to say, was ineffective too. Howley has clearly not picked the form player in Tipuric.

 

The only comfort I take is that Leigh Halfpenny was absolutely world class. But one awesome performance can't win a game. It nearly did, but not quite.

[Rey_Piste]

Heartbreaking result for Wales vs. Australia today. Reminded me of Wales/SA in the World Cup.

 

However, what the fuck did Rhys Priestland expect to achieve by kicking the ball away at 79 minutes? Absolutely idiotic decision there.

That's the "fuck it we've lost decision". where you just take the kick and chalk it off as an expereience. It's rather that than prelong the pain.

[Slapnut]

Heartbreaking result for Wales vs. Australia today. Reminded me of Wales/SA in the World Cup.

 

However, what the fuck did Rhys Priestland expect to achieve by kicking the ball away at 79 minutes? Absolutely idiotic decision there.

That's the "fuck it we've lost decision". where you just take the kick and chalk it off as an expereience. It's rather that than prelong the pain.

 

But Wales had the lead!

[Forrest]

Watched the end of Fiji vs. Scotland. I demand more games be broadcast from Fiji. The video quality was hideous, the score was halfway down the screen, there was no time and the commentator referred to Kellogg as playing for "the Glasgow Rangers".

 

It was like the ECW of rugby. I loved it.

[PowerButchi]

Start of the AIs today, how do we all think we're going to get on? I'm having horrible premonitions of Rhys Priestland dropping a Grade-A bollock of some description. I don't think he's perfomed well in a Wales shirt since the WC QF against the Irish.

[Up Chuck]

I'm chuffed to bits to see Marcos Ayerza getting a start for Argentina. They nicked him off Tigers for the Rugby Championship and barely used him. Should be a win for Wales, but Argentina might give you a bit of trouble here and there, which is what you want from an international series opener really.

 

It's also what I'm expecting from Fiji. In days gone by we'd be expecting a walkover, but thanks to him being Tigers' most dangerous attacking threat we know how good Vereniki Goneva is. Putting him as opposite number to Manu Tuilagi sets up an interesting clash too. Both those guys have a killer sidestep but only Goneva ever really uses it these days, so I'm hoping he brings out Manu's adventurous side a bit.

 

Elsewhere for England, I can't argue at all with the lineup. I still have Ben Youngs ahead of Danny Care when they're firing on all cylinders, but Care's been red hot for Quins, and while Youngs is hitting some lovely form as well, he's not long back from injury, so keeping him fresh and using him as an impact sub so Care can go full-on for 60 minutes seems smart.

 

Flood ahead of Farrell is also the right call. His kicking has been as good as ever, and he's been razor-sharp with his passing and decisions. Monye starting is an interesting one, but given both form and Ashton's suspension it's fine by me. Goode over Brown at full-back is definitely a team call rather than an individual one, but like with Youngs, you can't argue with Brown off the bench late on. I'm pleased to see Tom Johnson getting a shot too, and again, there's a great impact sub for him or Robshaw in Tom Wood.

 

The biggest unknown for England is obviously Tom Youngs. I think he's phenomenal and could genuinely be world-class in a few years, but he's not been a hooker long (he was a centre until Heyneke Meyer persuaded him to switch a few years ago) and his line-out throwing is still a bit suspect. Hopefully that won't make itself too much of an issue, and his strengths will manifest - he's a really powerful scrummager and his experience at centre makes him extremely useful in the loose. It could be a triumph, a disaster or nothing at all, but I'm cautiously optimistic about this being the first cap in a glittering international career.

 

That's today, anyway. I can't bring myself to predict an England win against any of the big 3, but I wouldn't rule it out, either. South Africa are probably the ones we should target. Be nice to get one over them after coming so close in the summer.

[matbro1984]

One of the worst Welsh performances for years. Absolute dogshit. Not only did Argentina deserve to win, if the pitch wasn't fucked up they could comfortably have put 30 points on us.

 

Always the same after a Grand slam. It all goes to shit.