Truth Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 But my original quote came with a slight disclaimer! I said "Very agile for a heavyweight", granted you could not compare his agility to Johnny Saint or Steve Grey, But at the peak of the WOS era Nagasaki was right up there with the top heavyweight workers IMO. I could name loads of inferior workers of that generation, but few better & that was an era with a lot of quality. So that makes him a very agile Heavyweight in my book? Also a great draw for many years which is the most important factor of a Pro Wrestler if you read my other comments on this thread. I started watching wrestling 25 years ago. I neither looked at Kendo Nagasaki as particularly big or agile, probably due to watching bigger guys being more agile on WWF TV shows. Guys like Macho Man and Ricky Steamboat were far more agile than Kendo Nagasaki.  Kendo Nagasaki moved around a lot better than heavyweights such as Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks. That's for sure  Of course, there is no doubt that there were loads of inferior workers than Kendo Nagasaki. But when I watched WOS era shows, the guys who stood out as the best workers were Dave "Fit" Finlay, Mark Rocco, Johnny Saint, Danny "Boy" Collins and so on. They were not heavyweight but were more exciting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted August 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Wrong. That's a wonderful contribution to this thread, or at least it would be if you elaborated a bit. People have explained there reasons pretty well, and frankly I'm not sure how you could argue against the guy consistantly putting ass's in seats is the best worker, but I'd like to see you try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 My theory of who are the best workers/professional wrestlers goes something like this. If you are top of the bill & the venue is sold out, you are the best worker on the card along with you opponent. Similarly if you are in the main event of a successful PPV then you are part of the best match on the show, Regardless how good the bouts were beforehand. So for me it has to be Hogan in the States & Perhaps Big Daddy in the UK, As the top workers in their respective countries as both drew very well for a long period of time. If they were the best workers or not, could be discussed depending on the definition of worker. They were the guys that the promoters were able to market the best and push the most! Both Hulk Hogan and Big Daddy played their roles very well, no doubt. Vince McMahon made Hulkamania and could be considered the best worker as he knew how to use Hulk Hogan. Verne Gagne did not, and had Hogan stayed with AWA, we would not have seen the rise of Hulkamania. Big Daddy was given a huge push because Max Crabtree was the promoter and knew that his brother would stay loyal and not go to the competitor. Had another, better worker been given the push of Big Daddy, he could also have become a mega star but there would also be a risk that he would leave for Brian Dixon "if the price was right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted August 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Vince McMahon made Hulkamania and could be considered the best worker as he knew how to use Hulk Hogan. Verne Gagne did not, and had Hogan stayed with AWA, we would not have seen the rise of Hulkamania. But that statement isn't wholey correct. Vince McMahon didn't really make Hulkamania and he certainly couldn't have done it with someone else. Hulk Hogan was already making waves before Vince picked him up, he was doing Rocky 3 and was already over in AWA and Japan. You are correct, he wouldn't have become as big with AWA, but that's because AWA didn't have the same asperations and WWF and Gagne, for whatever reason didn't want to put Hogan at the top of the card. Â Vince McMahon can be considered the better promoter not the better worker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperstarNeilC Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I got into wrestling in 1977, when i was 11-years-old and living in Preston, Lancashire.  Started watching World of Sport and soon after began attending the monthly shows at Preston Guild Hall.  The Top Tier was Kendo Nagasaki, Big Daddy & Giant Haystacks. These three men were the BIG drawing cards, and ALWAYS in the Main Event.  In 1978, big, burley Canadian heel Mighty John Quinn appeared on the scene and immediately joined the Top Tier. He was super-hated and super-over  Kendo at this time retired for a few years.  One other star was at the very Top for a while, around 1979 - 42-stone The Bulk, who battled as a Big Daddy nemesis  ~~~  Just below the Top Tier were:  Heels: King Kong Kirk, Bully Boy Ian Muir, Big Bruno Elrington, Rollerball Rocco, Big Pat Roach, Mick McManus, Ironman Steve Logan  Faces: Tony St. Clair, Marty Jones, Wayne Bridges, Johnny Saint, Steve Grey, Iron Fist Clive Myers, Goldbelt Brian Maxine  Around this time, 1979, Dynamite Kid had already departed for Canada, and his cousin, Davey Boy Smith was in his first year as a pro.  And a new arrival on the scene - sensational Japanese airialist Sammy Lee (who became the Original Tiger Mask)  ~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Both Hulk Hogan and Big Daddy played their roles very well, no doubt. Vince McMahon made Hulkamania and could be considered the best worker as he knew how to use Hulk Hogan. Verne Gagne did not, and had Hogan stayed with AWA, we would not have seen the rise of Hulkamania. Thats not right at all. Hogan was already selling out big arena's and a massive star overseas doing the exact same gimmick he would use in the WWF. Without Vince McMahon, there probably wouldnt have been the platform to become globally recognised and as megarich as he became. But he was already an arena selling attraction before the boom period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishwrestlinglegends Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I started watching wrestling 25 years ago. I neither looked at Kendo Nagasaki as particularly big or agile, probably due to watching bigger guys being more agile on WWF TV shows. Guys like Macho Man and Ricky Steamboat were far more agile than Kendo Nagasaki.  Kendo Nagasaki moved around a lot better than heavyweights such as Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks. That's for sure  Of course, there is no doubt that there were loads of inferior workers than Kendo Nagasaki. But when I watched WOS era shows, the guys who stood out as the best workers were Dave "Fit" Finlay, Mark Rocco, Johnny Saint, Danny "Boy" Collins and so on. They were not heavyweight but were more exciting to watch.   Just a few points if i may?  1, The era that i was referring to was mid 1960"s to mid 1970"s so by your own admission, was before your time.  2, Was Savage or Steamboat really bigger than Nagasaki? Maybe slightly, during there heaviest periods of steroid abuse? To the best of my knowledge, Nagasaki never used artificial enhancement & was a NATURAL heavyweight.  3, I find it very interesting that you should pick Savage/Steamboat as your examples of "Bigger & more agile guys". Two of the greatest workers of any era of wrestling, there were lots of other workers of that WWF era, that you could have picked? The Warlord, Jim Duggan, Junkyard Dog etc. etc. I would argue that the Nagasaki of a decade earlier, Whilst not quite as agile as your examples would most certainly gave either one of them a serious run for their money..  4, Also interesting was that you came up with a lot of quality WOS wrestlers, none of which you admitted were Heavyweights? So where are your examples of superior Heavyweights to Nagasaki circa 1965-1975 (& probably a while longer?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Surf Digby Posted August 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 30, 2011 Any pics or videos you can link us to that shows Nagasaki with such a large build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishwrestlinglegends Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Any pics or videos you can link us to that shows Nagasaki with such a large build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Just a few points if i may? 1, The era that i was referring to was mid 1960"s to mid 1970"s so by your own admission, was before your time.  2, Was Savage or Steamboat really bigger than Nagasaki? Maybe slightly, during there heaviest periods of steroid abuse? To the best of my knowledge, Nagasaki never used artificial enhancement & was a NATURAL heavyweight.  3, I find it very interesting that you should pick Savage/Steamboat as your examples of "Bigger & more agile guys". Two of the greatest workers of any era of wrestling, there were lots of other workers of that WWF era, that you could have picked? The Warlord, Jim Duggan, Junkyard Dog etc. etc. I would argue that the Nagasaki of a decade earlier, Whilst not quite as agile as your examples would most certainly gave either one of them a serious run for their money..  4, Also interesting was that you came up with a lot of quality WOS wrestlers, none of which you admitted were Heavyweights? So where are your examples of superior Heavyweights to Nagasaki circa 1965-1975 (& probably a while longer?)  I discuss Kendo Nagasaki from my point of view, and that is the great thing about wrestling boards: Discussion!  1) I started following wrestling about 25 years ago but I have seen 1970s Kendo Nagasaki on videos. 1960s matches are not available to my knowledge, so I can't discuss those matches anymore than I can discuss Frank Gotch's matches from the early 1900s.  2/3) When I started watching wrestling as a kid around 25 years ago, I did not really know about steroids. From a child's point of view, I was more impressed by the agility of guys like Savage, Steamboat, The British Bulldogs, Rick Martel, Tom Zenk, Paul Roma, Jim Powers, Tito Santana, Koko B Ware, Jim Brunzell, B Brian Blair, Bret Hart and others who would be considered as heavyweights in the UK. And although I did not like him back then (when I was a "mark"), in retrospect a guy like Adrian Adonis moved around the ring better than most. He certainly looked like a natural heavyweight  4) When I watched WOS wrestling, guys like Mark Rocco, Dave "Fit" Finlay and Danny "Boy" Collins were the ones that I enjoyed watching the most. Even as a kid, I did not think Big Daddy was great because he was a natural heavyweight and won all of his matches  We can discuss this endlessly, but to finish it from my part:  Kendo Nagasaki must have had a special aura/charisma because he made such an impact and is still remembered by so many fans and is considered a legend! I just never got "it" when I started watching wrestling in the 1980s, still don't and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishwrestlinglegends Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I discuss Kendo Nagasaki from my point of view, and that is the great thing about wrestling boards: Discussion!  1) I started following wrestling about 25 years ago but I have seen 1970s Kendo Nagasaki on videos. 1960s matches are not available to my knowledge, so I can't discuss those matches anymore than I can discuss Frank Gotch's matches from the early 1900s.  2/3) When I started watching wrestling as a kid around 25 years ago, I did not really know about steroids. From a child's point of view, I was more impressed by the agility of guys like Savage, Steamboat, The British Bulldogs, Rick Martel, Tom Zenk, Paul Roma, Jim Powers, Tito Santana, Koko B Ware, Jim Brunzell, B Brian Blair, Bret Hart and others who would be considered as heavyweights in the UK. And although I did not like him back then (when I was a "mark"), in retrospect a guy like Adrian Adonis moved around the ring better than most. He certainly looked like a natural heavyweight  4) When I watched WOS wrestling, guys like Mark Rocco, Dave "Fit" Finlay and Danny "Boy" Collins were the ones that I enjoyed watching the most. Even as a kid, I did not think Big Daddy was great because he was a natural heavyweight and won all of his matches  We can discuss this endlessly, but to finish it from my part:  Kendo Nagasaki must have had a special aura/charisma because he made such an impact and is still remembered by so many fans and is considered a legend! I just never got "it" when I started watching wrestling in the 1980s, still don't and never will. Kendo Nagasaki must have had a special aura/charisma because he made such an impact and is still remembered by so many fans and is considered a legend! I just never got "it" when I started watching wrestling in the 1980s, still don't and never will.  I totally appreciate your point of view as you seem very knowledgeable on wrestling & have taken the time out to explain yourself well. Now we are mates will you be willing admit that from 1965 to 1975 kendo nagasaki, At 6ft2in & 17 stone was a big heavyweight hunk of a man? If you do i will leave you in peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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