Kane

[Big Jock Knew]

Stemming from something I considered when typing a reply to the "WWF 1999" thread.

 

It occurs to me that for the past number of years, Kane has resided in the same camp as Big Show in that he can be turned face/heel without any real explanation or motive on TV. So what do you think was Kane's best alignment? It's probably fairer to think about earlier on in his career as these days he seems to be content to go through the motions and his presence is of little consequence.

 

It's hard to ignore how great Kane's introduction was ("THAT'S....THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE!") and his subsequent feud with The Undertaker was class. I'm interested to see if anyone else prefers him as a face like I do though: it may just be a case of the past always seeming rosier, but I think Kane is one of the better top-tier faces the company had in the last while. I'm reminded of his return on Raw in June 2000 which was met with a massive pop.

 

So, is Kane a better face or heel?

[MinceMcMahon]

Face, no question. He's been a bit 'meh' ever since he lost the mask though.

[King Pitcos]

Nowadays, I find Kane most interesting when he's playing the creepy, funny babyface. Like a monster Goldust. It's not something that comes out too often, but when it does, I like him way more than the generic monster heel or face he usually does.

[Big Jock Knew]

Nowadays, I find Kane most interesting when he's playing the creepy, funny babyface. Like a monster Goldust. It's not something that comes out too often, but when it does, I like him way more than the generic monster heel or face he usually does.

 

I get what you mean there. At Over the Limit, I laughed at his promo about being pissed because the rapture didn't happen.

[Carbomb]

There was always one angle I hoped WWE would do, and they didn't (not saying they necessarily should've done, but would've like to see it): that Kane would bring back his mask as a talismanic object in the way the Undertaker had his urn. Have him cut some promo saying that he realised he had lost something since losing his mask, and that was the state of mind, the fury he had, the resentment and rage that his mask reminded him of - so he carries it to the ring with him in that bag like he did in his feud with Rey, and he dons it every match, transforming in an almost Festus-like way back to the old, uber-monster Kane we first saw.

 

Think it would've been a good storyline for a while.

[JohnnyChimpo]

They just shouldnt have ever taken the mask off him anyway. I dont know how they ever thought it was going to be a good idea long term. I know Kane has never been a true mega star, but he had much more of an aura about him with the mask. I obviously dont know their actual plans at the time, but when he took the mask off and he had a bit of hair, and smudge make up, I thought they were going to try and run the route of trying to make him look like he had these horrible scars but had to back track quickly when someone woke up and saw that the make up would just smear and run as soon as he started sweating, and Kane is a big time sweater!

 

They didnt even do the big reveal at a PPV. It all seemed so rushed and pointless. Just to pop a rating or something.

[Bellenda Carlisle]

I like Kane much more without a mask, he's got a great face for the role, his gappy teeth, low brow with no eyebrows and contacts/facial expressions make him look weird as fuck, a mask has no personality.

[pshango]

Kane as a heel( with Mask) without the mask he looks like a tool.

[The Miz]

Kane has gone from destroying The Undertaker, besting him in every single segment and match in a feud. Excellent promo's which make him look like a psycho monster......fast forward less than a year and he is doing the Santino victory trumpit at WrestleMania. If he can change character that quickly then who cares if he is heel or face.

[LaGoosh]

Kane is someone who has been over with the fans for about 10 years. Heel or face, he plays pretty much the same character. I think it's fine how it is now. He's never going to be a major player again but the guy is a good hand to have around.

[Magnum]

I like Kane much more without a mask, he's got a great face for the role, his gappy teeth, low brow with no eyebrows and contacts/facial expressions make him look weird as fuck, a mask has no personality.

 

Aye, I lean towards this too. I do think the mask could be brought back to freshen him up for a while, sort of like Carbomb suggested, but they were absolutely right to take the mask off him when they did. Even in 2003, Kane had been in a prominent spot on WWE TV for 6 years, and had turned heel to face and back again several times.

 

There really wasn't a lot left to do with the non-expressive, barely-speaking Kane then, and I think people forget how incredible the angle where he lost the mask was initially. Tombstoning Linda McMahon, setting JR on fire, coming to the ring in handcuffs with the towel on his head. It was one of the best angles of the last decade, for me, and if he hadn't lost his heat struggling to deal with Super Shane for about 4 months, a properly done Kane/Goldberg feud could have been big money.

[JohnnyChimpo]

I like Kane much more without a mask, he's got a great face for the role, his gappy teeth, low brow with no eyebrows and contacts/facial expressions make him look weird as fuck, a mask has no personality.

 

Aye, I lean towards this too. I do think the mask could be brought back to freshen him up for a while, sort of like Carbomb suggested, but they were absolutely right to take the mask off him when they did. Even in 2003, Kane had been in a prominent spot on WWE TV for 6 years, and had turned heel to face and back again several times.

 

There really wasn't a lot left to do with the non-expressive, barely-speaking Kane then, and I think people forget how incredible the angle where he lost the mask was initially. Tombstoning Linda McMahon, setting JR on fire, coming to the ring in handcuffs with the towel on his head. It was one of the best angles of the last decade, for me, and if he hadn't lost his heat struggling to deal with Super Shane for about 4 months, a properly done Kane/Goldberg feud could have been big money.

I remember the initial buzz it created for the first couple of weeks, I havn't forgotten that. What I said in my post was that I dont know how they thought it was going to work out over the long term. Considering he was in a mid card feud with RVD in the immediate aftermath, and then straight into his Shane O'Mac feud, there was never going to be anyway he was going to keep/gain more momentum like that. They didnt seem to have any real plan for him at the time.

 

Also, Kane was hardly "barely speaking" at the time either. He was talking pretty fluently (and getting better all the time) from 2000 onwards. When he lost the mask in mid 03, he was talking as much as anyone. Also, I think people are selling Kane short by saying that a mask has no personality, I thought Kane was excellent at portraying character and emotion during his masked days. Little tilts of the head, pulling his glove on tighter etc in relation to the context of the situation he was in always got the message across about what he was feeling at that moment, and the crowd would always respond to it. I thought those subtle mannerisms were better than his cartoon comedy facial expressions now.

[King Pitcos]

He's never going to be a major player again but the guy is a good hand to have around.

People were saying that for years, and he spent 2010 as World champion and battering Undertaker.

[SSJLogan]

Kane, with a mask as a monster heel with someone doing the talking for him. Thats the only time i've ever liked him.

[Magnum]

I remember the initial buzz it created for the first couple of weeks, I havn't forgotten that. What I said in my post was that I dont know how they thought it was going to work out over the long term. Considering he was in a mid card feud with RVD in the immediate aftermath, and then straight into his Shane O'Mac feud, there was never going to be anyway he was going to keep/gain more momentum like that. They didnt seem to have any real plan for him at the time.

 

I don't dispute the last point - the lack of a mid/long-term plan has been the downfall of just about every compelling WWE angle of the last ten years, from Vince's long-lost son to Orton punting Vince. Every 'unstoppable monster' has a fairly brief shelf-life, but I think Kane's could have been more prolonged and potent if they'd put him over stronger following the RVD feud. The fact that he was up there in a world title match with Goldberg and Triple H at the end of the year suggests he maintained some momentum, but I think it could have been so much more if he'd comprehensively destroyed Shane after dealing with RVD. Considering how little of a toss anyone gave about the Triple H/Goldberg feud after the Elimination Chamber, I don't think it would've been any loss to have Kane squash Shane and then move straight onto Goldberg.

 

Also, Kane was hardly "barely speaking" at the time either. He was talking pretty fluently (and getting better all the time) from 2000 onwards. When he lost the mask in mid 03, he was talking as much as anyone. Also, I think people are selling Kane short by saying that a mask has no personality, I thought Kane was excellent at portraying character and emotion during his masked days. Little tilts of the head, pulling his glove on tighter etc in relation to the context of the situation he was in always got the message across about what he was feeling at that moment, and the crowd would always respond to it. I thought those subtle mannerisms were better than his cartoon comedy facial expressions now.

 

I don't think he had *no* personality under the mask, I just think it limited the personality he could convey. To take a pretty crude example, the psychotic character he's portrayed in 2003 and again last year relies on things like sick grins and demonic laughter that just isn't really effective or even visible under the mask. When they did give him long promos to cut, like the infamous Katie Vick one, it just seemed odd and bemusing - what's this strange, quasi-human creature saying about stick shifts? He was over with the mask, but he was stale, and I don't think he'd have ever got interesting enough to the wider fanbase to push into the world title picture again without that extra jolt that losing the mask gave him. I say this as someone who's generally found Kane boring as sin since he started in the WWF, but thought that, for a couple of months in 2003, he was far and away the most interesting thing on the show.