Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted April 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 12, 2011 Was that supposed to be a reply to Swift? Again, I'm not trying to set anyone up. I'm just presenting the facts. Bristep claims he's been blocked but all the roles have been revealed and there's no sign of a roleblocker which means either he is lying or one of the people who claimed Vanilla is (myself, Tom or brownie). Also Ron, if I was scum why would try and set up Bristep when lynching any town player today should be enough to win scum the game? I dunno...maybe todays main suspects are scum, and he's been deemed the easiest to set up by the scum in the night phase?  But the underlined statement worrys me. "Any town player", you say? Any? Are you suggesting there's already a wagon on a town player you could push through? Is this a scum slip?  Unvote  Vote unfitfinlay  No, any town player means any town player. There are eight players left in the game. Five town and three scum. If ANY TOWN PLAYER is lynched today and we lose another from a night kill then it's game over. So why would I bother "trying to set up Bristep" when a lynch on anybody would do?  Incidentally, why are you accusing me of setting up Bristep but not Tom or Brownie? Am I trying to set them up as well? I mean start a wagon.  There seems to be much more focus on Bristep than the other two, based on what I think is a very flimsy - and I'd go as far as to say forced - case. A lot more weight seems to have been thrown on the "Bristep is lying" side of the argument than the "vanilla x" is lying. And since SMS has confirmed Bristep's role, and I don't see any real point in making up a "three night block" story, I'm thinking something really odd is going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted April 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 12, 2011 EBWOP: On top of this I think your sudden switch from saying you don't think an action of mine was scummy to voting for me was a very opportunistic move. Â And I think one of tom or brownie is scum, probably tom and you maybe threw them in there to make your point look more valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted April 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 12, 2011 Was that supposed to be a reply to Swift? Again, I'm not trying to set anyone up. I'm just presenting the facts. Bristep claims he's been blocked but all the roles have been revealed and there's no sign of a roleblocker which means either he is lying or one of the people who claimed Vanilla is (myself, Tom or brownie). Also Ron, if I was scum why would try and set up Bristep when lynching any town player today should be enough to win scum the game? I dunno...maybe todays main suspects are scum, and he's been deemed the easiest to set up by the scum in the night phase?  But the underlined statement worrys me. "Any town player", you say? Any? Are you suggesting there's already a wagon on a town player you could push through? Is this a scum slip?  Unvote  Vote unfitfinlay  No, any town player means any town player. There are eight players left in the game. Five town and three scum. If ANY TOWN PLAYER is lynched today and we lose another from a night kill then it's game over. So why would I bother "trying to set up Bristep" when a lynch on anybody would do?  Incidentally, why are you accusing me of setting up Bristep but not Tom or Brownie? Am I trying to set them up as well? I mean start a wagon.  There seems to be much more focus on Bristep than the other two, based on what I think is a very flimsy - and I'd go as far as to say forced - case. A lot more weight seems to have been thrown on the "Bristep is lying" side of the argument than the "vanilla x" is lying. And since SMS has confirmed Bristep's role, and I don't see any real point in making up a "three night block" story, I'm thinking something really odd is going on here.  What? No there isn't. Look back at what I wrote again.  Bristep - Well, he voted for Nexus after he slipped, said he was going to "interrogate" him but then accepted Nexus excuse without question then switched his vote back to me and then onto Ron. I'm not sure how helpful the Watcher role would be to the scum though. Tom - Really overreacted to Ron's attempt to trap him in the last phase which made me suspicious. Has completely backed off from Ron this phase though, which could be innocent but could also be that his scum buddies told him to back off during the night phase.  Brownie - Well, he hammered Nexus but, as Spotlight pointed out, that could've just been a way to cut scums losses and make himself look town (WIFOM, I know). Was also immediately under Nexus in the draft which would be really helpful when making the false claim: If Nexus went for One Night Vig and didn't get it then TDK could claim he went for it knowing full well someone above both of them had the role.  I said one suspicious thing that I thought he'd done, but I didn't focus on him any more than I did the other two, probably less even. The only reason I've written "either Bristep is lying or one out of me, brownie or tom is" is because it's true: He's either lying about being blocked or one of us is lying about being Vanilla.  For what it's worth, I'm far more suspicious of Tom and Brownie than I am Bristep but ruling him out entirely would be foolish.  EBWOP: On top of this I think your sudden switch from saying you don't think an action of mine was scummy to voting for me was a very opportunistic move. And I think one of tom or brownie is scum, probably tom and you maybe threw them in there to make your point look more valid.  Again though I didn't (and don't) think your attempt to trap Tom in the last phase was nearly as bad as he was making it out to be. When I thought the two of you were trying to bus Nexus, it read like the whole thing was a plan to distance yourselves from each other.  Why would I throw myself in there Ron, especially since as Bristep pointed out, my Vanilla claim has far less weight than the others? I was the last one to claim so I knew all the roles and could easily have claimed Cop or Tracker knowing that I couldn't be contradicted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted April 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 12, 2011 Again though I didn't (and don't) think your attempt to trap Tom in the last phase was nearly as bad as he was making it out to be. When I thought the two of you were trying to bus Nexus, it read like the whole thing was a plan to distance yourselves from each other. Why would I throw myself in there Ron, especially since as Bristep pointed out, my Vanilla claim has far less weight than the others? I was the last one to claim so I knew all the roles and could easily have claimed Cop or Tracker knowing that I couldn't be contradicted? Fair enough. I'm still thinking there's something very strange about all this though. Something's not right but I can't quite put my finger on what. Maybe it's just me.  I'll demote my suspicions to an FOS. unvote  FOS unfitfinlay  And vote again for my number one suspect. Vote tom  I'm going to have to re-read the whole thread focussing on you, Finlay. I'm almost certain there's something weird going on, but as it stands I feel fairly satisfied with your answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Red Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Why would I throw myself in there Ron, especially since as Bristep pointed out, my Vanilla claim has far less weight than the others? I was the last one to claim so I knew all the roles and could easily have claimed Cop or Tracker knowing that I couldn't be contradicted? Â Thing is it's not as simple as that. For you to claim Cop or Tracker, that would mean claiming a role that hasn't been put out there yet. It runs the risk of suspicion because as we've already established (unless I'm lying) that we have a blocker in the game. Now if you claim a different role then you're under suspicion even more because you stand out like a sore thumb. Then you'll need to prove it the next night, by telling us your results. It's a sticky web of lies that can be simply avoided by simply saying "OH HAI I'M VANILLA! ONE OF THE VANILLAS IS LYING BUT NOT ME KTHX!" Â If you were the blocker then you had 3 choices. Lie and claim a power role, Lie and claim vanilla or Truth and hope people believed you were town. Guess which is the easiest of the three. Â @Ron : on a side note, did SMS give any indication as to who he planned to Rolecop last night? Â Also @Ron : What Swiftstrike said. This is a game where any player can go for any role. You don't know what any player is or is not thinking in relation to roles, so to say that "Player X choosing Role Y is utterly inconcievable" is in itself suspicious. You've decided that the scum are either playing "Take the most powerful roles" or "Take from the town" and anything else is just prepostorous. Hell I could have taken watcher simply because I thought that people would think me town if my role got revealed. That's not the case, but it could have been. Â I'm really tempted to vote for you again, just because you really are acting oddly. Â @Carbomb : Come on, lets get the last role confirmed. Â @Swift : Your QT notes suggested that you were of the same mindset as me last night, 1 scum stayed on the Ron wagon, but now that it's you or me you aren't giving it the same credence. If it's not us, who would have been the likeliest 3 on the Nexus wagon to be bussing their buddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members swiftstrike Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 Vote Count Nexus (6) - tom, unfitfinlay, Carbomb MA, spotlightmagnet1, Ron Simmons, brownie Ron Simmons (4) - Chris B, SMS, bristep123, swiftstrike Well looking at the vote count list  IF carbomb is the doctor which seems likely based on current claims then to me he is confirmed town as I don't think scum would cover off a doc in that position better to take one of the roles they are very likely to get like framer so not him, spotlight I'm a little concerned with but as I said even if he is scum he can't be killed until the last day so that leaves the likelyhood of at least 2 of the 3 scum being from that list and possible all three, out of all the players there I feel the least comfortable with brownie for his vote on me and keeping it where he has now without questioning my role or decisions, Tom is possible as well his push as Nexus slip even trying to explain it as a slip this phase seems a little contrived as if he jumped on it because it was mentioned without fully understanding it and considering he was first on that wagon I would have though he clearly would understand why he was pushing Nexus lynch.  Bristep you say you feel unsure of me know yet you still have your vote on me, surely at this time if you are unsure then a FOS would be more appropiate so why is your vote still on me and also given that I got pillared for trying to use numbers as a way of working out scum on day 1 (which is reasonable when there is so little to go on why did you use it as justification for your vote this phase. even if it is from a different sense of the numbers used Yeah, so at this stage I'm either being jailkept by town or roleblocked by scum because that's 3 nights in a row that my action has failed. Since 2 out of the 4 people not voting for Nexus (apart from Nexus himself) are now dead that means that at least 2 scum were on his wagon. I really don't think that all 3 scum would have been on Nexus' wagon, so since Chris and SMS are dead, and I'm aware that I'm not scum that leaves Swiftstrike.  At this point Ron, mass claim seems like a good idea, because it's 5 town to 3 scum so we're definitely at potential endgame but it needs to happen quickly so we aren't gaining new info early into the day. I'd want to see it happen from the bottom of the draft up though as I said before, Carbomb, then Finlay, then Swift, Spotlight then myself.  Vote Swiftstrike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members swiftstrike Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 EBWOP  Missed Ron and Finley off the list  Finley seems town to me after all he chased Nexus down hard last phase although that could be a case of getting him confirmed to then take the game win later I don't think that is the case, where as Ron, well some of this ideas are so wild and outthere it is quite the consideration that he could be scum pushing things but as the way highest poster in the game no one has pulled up any major slips from him and I would have thought we would have found 1 by now.  Ron are you still laid up from your fall? because you seem to have a lot of time of your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 Why would I throw myself in there Ron, especially since as Bristep pointed out, my Vanilla claim has far less weight than the others? I was the last one to claim so I knew all the roles and could easily have claimed Cop or Tracker knowing that I couldn't be contradicted? Â Thing is it's not as simple as that. For you to claim Cop or Tracker, that would mean claiming a role that hasn't been put out there yet. It runs the risk of suspicion because as we've already established (unless I'm lying) that we have a blocker in the game. Now if you claim a different role then you're under suspicion even more because you stand out like a sore thumb. Then you'll need to prove it the next night, by telling us your results. It's a sticky web of lies that can be simply avoided by simply saying "OH HAI I'M VANILLA! ONE OF THE VANILLAS IS LYING BUT NOT ME KTHX!" Â Scum only need one more town lynch to win the game though, Bristep so no web of lies would need to be formed. If I was scum, all I would need to do is claim Cop, say I investigated both my scum buddies and a random townie and they all came back Town. People might be suspicious but would anybody really take the chance of lynching a claimed Cop or someone he confirmed Town at LyLo, just to see if he was lying? Â It isn't me that's lying but, again, I absolutely agree that I should be a suspect. If anyone wants to question me then feel free because that's the only way we're going to be able to root out which one of the four of us is scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well, seeing as I'm the last to claim: Â I'm Vanilla Town. Tried to get Odd Night Vigilante, didn't get it, as can be seen. Â To those who asked my motivations for voting spotlightmagnet1, I'd already explained it: I don't 100% think he's Scum, but I'm pretty much leaning towards the idea. Just because he's claimed a role doesn't confirm his alignment, and as I've said, I really don't see the logic in claiming as a Bomb if you're Town and under no threat of a lynch; you might very well do that if you're Scum, to keep people off you. Â As to tom claiming that I'm Scum for jumping on spotlightmagnet, I can see your logic, but to be honest, it's not alignment logic - when dealing with any kind of bomb, Town or Scum, it makes sense to get in early because the game dynamics are such that we want just as much as Scum do to avoid losing players, especially as we're at LyLo now. I figured that, if I jump on spotlightmagnet, whom I suspect to be Scum, early, then the rest of his Scum buddies, should they decide to bus him, would be forced into revealing themselves: a lynch would mean that the hammer was a Town who wasn't afraid to self-sacrifice, whereas anyone who refused to be the hammer would come under strong suspicion as being Scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tom Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 Tom is possible as well his push as Nexus slip even trying to explain it as a slip this phase seems a little contrived as if he jumped on it because it was mentioned without fully understanding it and considering he was first on that wagon I would have though he clearly would understand why he was pushing Nexus lynch. My main reasons for voting Nexus were how he'd told Snake he wouldn't get lynched if he confirmed as BP but then voted for him as soon as he confirmed, and how that vote came across as very opportune, and his reactions to my suspicion on him didn't convince me he was town either. And the slip was a slip as he seemed to forget a role by the end of a post where he mentioned that role; very telling of a player under pressure, desperate to save himself. I voted for him due to the reasons I said; the slip was just something that highlighted him even more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tom Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 a lynch would mean that the hammer was a Town who wasn't afraid to self-sacrifice, whereas anyone who refused to be the hammer would come under strong suspicion as being Scum. That's my whole worry though, that scum can easily paint it as an heroic act of self-sacrifice and thus ensure a town would hammer it to avoid scum suspicion. A town hammer on a bomb would be a disaster at this point, and would surely hand scum the game. So, do you think that town hammering a bomb is a good idea? And also, would you accuse anyone not willing to hammer of being scum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well, seeing as I'm the last to claim:Â I'm Vanilla Town. Tried to get Odd Night Vigilante, didn't get it, as can be seen. Â Â Okay, was not expecting that. Who is the Weak Doctor then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members swiftstrike Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well, seeing as I'm the last to claim:Â I'm Vanilla Town. Tried to get Odd Night Vigilante, didn't get it, as can be seen. Â Â Okay, was not expecting that. Who is the Weak Doctor then? Well either someone is lying in hope of catching scum in a false claim or Lion didn't really go for weak doctor or Mike made a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members swiftstrike Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 EBWOP: or Scum did go for the doctor role and know don't want to confess to it as they would then have to explain night action, in which case one for the claimed vanillas is really a scum doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tom Posted April 13, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted April 13, 2011 Weak Doctor You are the Weak Doctor, every night you may PM me the name of a player to protect, however if that player is mafia you will die. Why would scum pick weak doctor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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