MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[jimufctna24]

There was always heat between Tank and Tito as well, something to do with them both being from Huntington Beach, i need to read more into that.

Tito's side of the story goes a bit like this.

 

Tank was a father figure to Tito of sorts, and Tito helped Tank train which lead to Tito getting into the UFC through his connection with Tank. Tito claims he did a lot for Tank, but when Tito needed Tank to help him out, Tank told him he "was on his own" Its in Tito's book.

 

Tank clearly was not a fan of Tito when he came back to the UFC as one of the first things he said was "posers in flame shorts" when he was introduced to the live crowd at UFC 40

[wandshogun09]

You've just reminded me how much I loved Tank's 'return to UFC' interview at UFC 40. "You've got guys running around with flames comin out their ass and sewn onto their shorts". And kind of starting on Joe Rogan. Tank was pure pro wrestling, apart from when the bell rang, then he was pure pissed uncle fighting at a wedding reception.

[jimufctna24]

His comeback in the mid 00's was the drizzling shits though, he made no gains at the Box Office and he lost all his bouts. The one with Mir I can abide by, as it gave Mir a name n his record, and I get the novelty of legend vs legend with Kimi vs Tank (even though that is a very much Home and Bargain version of a Legends fight)

 

The Cabbage fight I can see that people wanted a all out exciting brawl, but it made the UFC look like crap with the after fight antics, I am not sure if Dana wanted to bring back the old fans or what. I am glad he gave up on that route and concentrated on TUF and showcasing the likes of Tito and Liddel to a national audience. Even in 2004 he was wheeling out Ken Shamrock vs Kimo as a Main Event.

 

When Pride was offering say Fedor vs Nog or Wanderlai vs Sakraba playing in front of bigger audiences and for bigger money, some of these fights made the UFC look like bush-league stuff. 2002-2003 was a horrible time for UFC in many ways.

 

Sorry for going on a bit a tangent. In short, I get why they brought Tank back, but they should have left him where he belonged in the 90's. Like I said Tank is the Ultimate "for his time" fighter.

Edited July 2, 2013 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

No, I completely agree. Tank was shite in that run. Even in 2002-03, the sport had left him behind. But I still loved that little interview. The wrestling fan in me loves all that bollocks. Scott Ferrozzo did a proper pro wrestling promo at Ultimate Ultimate '96 that was a joy to watch. But he was still a fat shitbag of a fighter.

 

To be fair to Tank, wasn't that brawl after the Cabbage fight mostly down to Cabbage's crew? Tank actually didn't do much at all as I recall, Cabbage flipped off Tank's corner or something and all hell broke loose. Embarrassing for sure though, I remember Rogan going off on one on the commentary about it. That was the night they did that legends ceremony as well for the 10 year anniversary wasn't it?

[jimufctna24]

To be fair to Tank, wasn't that brawl after the Cabbage fight mostly down to Cabbage's crew? Tank actually didn't do much at all as I recall, Cabbage flipped off Tank's corner or something and all hell broke loose. Embarrassing for sure though, I remember Rogan going off on one on the commentary about it. That was the night they did that legends ceremony as well for the 10 year anniversary wasn't it?

I think it was yeah, UFC 45 I think.

 

It was Cabbages fault I agree, doing that dance and flipping off the corner. You knew Tank's crew would not fail to take the bait.

 

It just made UFC and MMA in America look like crap though, a relic from the 90,s and a KOTC Level brawler acting like locals down the pub. They pulled their socks up in 2004 with how they promoted Tito vs Chuck and how they presented the sport ,which helped them get the deal with Spike.

[Egg Shen]

Tank-Cabbage was a great brawl whilst it lasted...the aftermath started when one of Cabbages crew threw a sponge i believe, haha.

 

Tank got his revenge though! he should have hung em up after the rematch, woulda been a great way to go out.

[wandshogun09]

Tank vs Cabbage 2 was fun actually. And the KO was brutal. That was sweet revenge for Tank, knocking out Cabbage clean with a one punch KO and in Hawaii.

 

Rumble On The Rock was quality actually. Good mix of brawls and technical fights. I even remember enjoying Cabbage vs Butterbean until Cabbage got injured. And ROTR gave us Penn vs Gomi which we'd probably have never seen otherwise, Anderson Silva passed through and Condit was on a few shows. Plus Phil Baroni commentating!

[Egg Shen]

yeh Superbrawl/Rumble on the Rock is great, always full of granite tough local guys and international stars, so many weird and wonderfull fights on them shows. The crowds in Hawaii are insane too.

[wandshogun09]

I was watching a couple of old fights earlier.

 

I flicked through UFC 36. Randy Couture vs Josh Barnett is an underrated fight I think. Probably because it's marred by Barnett pissing hot post-fight but whatever. I think I've recommended this fight in here before. It's a really good. Ahead of it's time for heavyweight, the pace was fast as fuck for heavyweight in that era.

 

I noticed during Barnett's post-fight interview, just as he was finishing up, a younger dark haired Lorenzo Fertitta whispered something to Barnett and then told the interviewer to give Barnett the mic. Barnett then made a half arsed callout to any boxers, specifically name dropping Lewis and Tyson (this was March 2002 at the height of the Lewis-Tyson hype). Weird seeing Lorenzo egging that on. Different time for the UFC back then, they were desperate for any publicity.

 

Frank Mir vs Pete Williams was on UFC 36 as well. You know, the one where Mir nearly ripped Williams' arm off. Interesting seeing Barnett and Mir back then on the same card, both were early 20s back then. Who'd have thought that 11 years later they'd be finally meeting in the UFC?

 

I also stuck on BJ Penn vs Matt Serra from UFC 39. Serra was fucking jacked back in 2002. He looked like a real life Hasbro. And BJ had hair! Real good close fight. I remembered thinking Serra actually should have won this and I thought the same today. It was close but I had Serra taking rounds 2 and 3. He was unlucky with the judges that night.

 

That got me thinking about Matt Serra's career. Looking back over his fights, just a few little differences and you're looking at a big difference in his record and possibly his overall legacy. I had him beating BJ Penn, I also had him winning the Matt Hughes fight. Then of course there's that magical night in Houston where he made GSP look like Bambi on ice. If the Penn and Hughes decisions went his way, that's wins over 3 of the legit best of all time. Then little additions like him nearly KOing a prime Karo Parisyan, who was a force at time and thought of as the next big thing. If he'd avoided that backfist from the great man in my sig for just 9 more seconds, that's another loss wiped from his record.

 

Little tweaks here and there and I think there's a legitimate case for ranking Serra high among the best welterweights ever. I definitely think he deserved the nod against Penn and Hughes anyway.

 

People talk about Serra 'getting lucky' against GSP. I don't really buy that. I'd say you mostly make your own luck in a sport like MMA. But even if it was luck, he was due some considering some of the bad breaks earlier in his career.

Edited July 4, 2013 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

 

Bas Rutten and Michael Schiavello argue for Pat Militech and Frank Shamrock respectively, to be inducted into the UFC Hall Of Fame. I agree with both, more strongly with Frank as I am a massive fan.

 

I would put Sensai Segal in there also.

 

Rich Franklin is someone I would not put in personally, but he is no less deserving than Stephan Bonnar. It depends on how high or low the standard is to get into the UFC HOF.

Edited July 9, 2013 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

I would put Sensai Segal in there also.

 

Get out.

 

I agree with both Miletich and Shamrock derserving to go in. They won't because the UFC Hall Of Fame is basically Dana White's glorified Christmas card list...and Tito Ortiz. But Pat and Frank definitely deserve it. For their MMA careers but also the impact they had in regards to influencing the sport/fighters in that late 90s-early 2000s era. It shouldn't be understated, that era was when MMA and the UFC were struggling, and those two contributed a lot to the evolution of the sport at that time. Frank opened a lot of people's eyes to the importance of cardio and cross training and Miletich's coaching accomplishments speak for themselves. Without Miletich, I doubt Matt Hughes would have been quite the force he became. Pulver too. And he took a 300lb slob called Tim, a man with no experience and no confidence, and trained him into a 250lb UFC champion. They both deserve it but they won't get in. Chris Leben probably will though

 

I'm watching UFC 115. I wish I'd reconnected with my relatives in Vancouver a year earlier because I'd have definitely tried to get out there for that card.

 

First of all the Countdown was excellent, especially the Cro Cop-Pat Barry segment. Pat Barry is brilliant on this. Doesn't come across so well in his twitter outbursts but on this Countdown, he's quality.

 

I haven't got to the Cro Cop vs Barry and Liddell vs Franklin fights yet. I skipped Rothwell vs Yvel because I remember it being a bunch of arse. Kampmann vs Paulo Thiago was surprisingly dull as well.

 

The reason I came into this thread was to pimp the Carlos Condit vs Rory MacDonald fight though. I remembered it being fun, but rewatching it now, it's even better than I remembered. Fucking incredible fight. And closer than I remember as well.

 

There's a couple of myths about this fight in my opinion.

 

1) "Rory dominated Condit the first two rounds."

 

I'm guilty of this as well. I remembered Rory schooling Condit the first 10 minutes. He really didn't though. I did score him the first two rounds but it's not the one way traffic it's made out to be. The first round sees Condit badly rock Rory and the stand up is quite even. Rory edged it on takedowns but that's it. Round two Rory won more convincingly but it was still always competitive.

 

Rogan is all up on Rory's cock in this fight. Which I think is part of the reason people recall it more one sided than it was. It got to the point where he was ignoring Condit's offence. Then when Condit was killing Rory in the third round, Rogan kept going "he needs to do something, this isn't enough." Meanwhile Rory's eye socket was swelling up like Ken Barlow's cock at a youth club.

 

So yeah, wasn't one sided. Which leads me to;

 

2) "The stoppage was early...if the ref let it go the last few seconds Rory would have won the decision."

 

Let's tackle the first bit first. The ref's job is to protect the fighters. Rory got fucked up something fierce in round three. About 4 minutes of the round was Condit just murdering his face with elbows and punches. The ref's responsibility then is to stop the fight if the guy taking a twatting isn't intelligently defending. Rory was getting blasted and offering no resistance. Yeah there was seconds left when the fight was stopped, but the ref's job isn't to watch the clock. Whether there's 4 minutes left of the round or 4 seconds, it's his job to watch the action, and base his stoppage on that, not the clock.

 

Also Rory himself said after the fight - "It was a just stoppage. He was kicking my ass."

 

The second part - yeah I gave Rory the first two rounds, but that doesn't mean he'd definitely have won if it went to the cards. He probably would have, judges rarely give 10-8 rounds, but if round 3 wasn't a 10-8 I don't know what the point of 10-8s are. If it went to the scorecards I'd have had it a draw with Rory taking rounds 1 and 2, and Condit 10-8ing the third.

 

Regardless, Condit won.

 

 

And Rory got fucked up. Look at his face;

 

 

Still the only loss on his record. It's amazing how well he's bounced back from that because it was a serious beating he took. Could have been a career ender, he's lucky his eye wasn't permanently damaged.

 

Shame we missed out on the rematch in March. I think they're bound to cross paths again at some point though. I think they've both improved since the first fight. Hopefully it will be a 5 rounder next time.

 

But yeah, if you've got a copy of this fight lying around, it's well worth revisiting. I'll have to watch Liddell-Franklin and Cro Cop-Barry tomorrow. Got to be up at 5. I think I'll end up watching UFC 116 and 117 as well over the next few days. That 3 PPV stretch was maybe the best hattrick of shows the UFC has ever put on.

[jimufctna24]

I would put Sensai Segal in there also.

Get out.

Nah, Sensai's guidance led to two of the most stunning knockouts in MMA history with Machida over Randy and Silva over Belfort. Sensai has brought a certain charm to the UFC, he is right up there with Militech and Jackson for getting the most out of their pupils.

 

Good write up on Condit vs Rory. I really want them to rematch at some point, I am guilty of thinking that Rory dominated, would have to watch again. No way was the stoppage early, no matter how late in the fight it was.

Edited July 9, 2013 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

Either you're Ariel Helwani masquerading as a civilian MMA fan, or...

 

 

Although I have heard rumours about TUF 19 next year;

 

Edited July 9, 2013 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

Either you're Ariel Helwani masquerading as a civilian MMA fan, or... troll

 

Although I have heard rumours about TUF 19 next year;

Come on now, Sensai is legit and would cream Norris in a round. I am as serious as Helwani is.

 

To touch on something above, Serra also had a tough schedule. He was in the UFC at 4-0, and went 7-7 during, that is while facing Hughes, GSP x2, Prime Karo, Prime Menjivar, BJ Penn, Prime Yves Edwards, Chris Lytle and Din Thomas.

 

That is a tough schedule, and half of those he beat at least half of them.

Edited July 9, 2013 by jimufctna24

[jimufctna24]

Wand - Listen and learn son