General politics discussion thread

[Van Dammer]

"Smashing the state"? Do you mean "running the country in a way we can afford"?

 

I can't beleive the delusions of grandeur some people have about Britain, not to mention the ridiculous sense of entitlement. The welfare state is basically a failed experiment at this point. It has been a massive negative to Britain, and has prevented us from moving forward into the post-industrial age. As a result, we've fallen far down the pecking order in the last 65 years, and will continue to fall until people get it into their heads that the government is not responsible for providing for them from cradle to grave.

 

Quite right and it cant and wont work with a rising and ageing population which is what we have. Welfare states are meant to be run for the exceptions to the rules, not for the vast majority.

 

Do you consider the state pension to be welfare? The NHS? Primary and Secondary education?

 

I class it as in the same bubble, but obviously I class different parts as more important than others. But generally im talking about the hundreds of different types of tax credits, 'the dole', job seekers allowance, housing benefits etc. Things just arnt sustainable when you have such a large, growing population which is living longer than it was when these systems were setup.

[David]

His favourite politician was just put in jail for lying in court over and over again and he trots that out.

As in most cases Yoggy, you've more than likely not checked the facts, and simply went with what you've read in the kneejerk-media.

 

Smashing the state is a term that anarcho-capitalists use frequently enough, it's just plain weird for you to use that as a basis for going on some strange rant utilising the usual right-wing waffle.

The sad thing is, their right-wing nonsense has driven away people like Bobbins and Carbomb from the thread altogether pretty much, which is a shame.

Edited February 28, 2011 by David

[Bashar]

"Smashing the state"? Do you mean "running the country in a way we can afford"?

 

I can't beleive the delusions of grandeur some people have about Britain, not to mention the ridiculous sense of entitlement. The welfare state is basically a failed experiment at this point. It has been a massive negative to Britain, and has prevented us from moving forward into the post-industrial age. As a result, we've fallen far down the pecking order in the last 65 years, and will continue to fall until people get it into their heads that the government is not responsible for providing for them from cradle to grave.

 

Quite right and it cant and wont work with a rising and ageing population which is what we have. Welfare states are meant to be run for the exceptions to the rules, not for the vast majority.

 

Do you consider the state pension to be welfare? The NHS? Primary and Secondary education?

 

I class it as in the same bubble, but obviously I class different parts as more important than others. But generally im talking about the hundreds of different types of tax credits, 'the dole', job seekers allowance, housing benefits etc. Things just arnt sustainable when you have such a large, growing population which is living longer than it was when these systems were setup.

 

Okay, thank you for clarifying. Surely the vast majority of the population do not receive any of those things you mention?

 

Besides, I'm not talking about the welfare state - I'm talking about the State. Everything is going up for tender. The private sector will bid low for the contracts and jack the prices up when there's no state service to compete with. That isn't sustainable either. Becoming just like Ireland is not sustainable.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Bashar

[Bashar]

His favourite politician was just put in jail for lying in court over and over again and he trots that out.

As in most cases Yoggy, you've more than likely not checked the facts, and simply went with what you've read in the kneejerk-media.

 

Smashing the state is a term that anarcho-capitalists use frequently enough, it's just plain weird for you to use that as a basis for going on some strange rant utilising the usual right-wing waffle.

The sad thing is, their right-wing nonsense has driven away people like Bobbins and Carbomb from the thread altogether pretty much, which is a shame.

 

Bobso's hero is here!

[Happ Hazzard]

It's a politics thread. Not a left-wing circle-jerk. If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit they can do so over at the Guardian or other similar website where any diverging opinions are ruthlessly censored.

[David]

It's a politics thread. Not a left-wing circle-jerk. If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit they can do so over at the Guardian or other similar website where any diverging opinions are ruthlessly censored.

If you read back over the thread you'll see many occasions where I disagreed with both Bobbins & Carbomb on different issues, but at least they had an intelligent argument to bring to the table.

 

If I didn't know that people such as yourself were in the minority in this country I would be pretty concerned.

[Yoghurt]

I found it quite funny you reeled out the "condoning lying" towards Happ when Sheridan is a convicted and jailed perjurer and you've defended him resolutely. So is his lying okay because you like him?

[Bashar]

It's a politics thread. Not a left-wing circle-jerk. If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit they can do so over at the Guardian or other similar website where any diverging opinions are ruthlessly censored.

 

Er, dude - you actually look at CommentIsFree?

 

1) MoveAnyMountain, CapitalistPigg, torieboy, RightWingTroll, Lord Posh and others get to state their opinion pretty clearly BTL.

 

2) Julian Glover is one of the Guardian's top columnists and frequently writes editorial pieces (even when he's not named, they have his stink).

[Van Dammer]

His favourite politician was just put in jail for lying in court over and over again and he trots that out.

As in most cases Yoggy, you've more than likely not checked the facts, and simply went with what you've read in the kneejerk-media.

 

Smashing the state is a term that anarcho-capitalists use frequently enough, it's just plain weird for you to use that as a basis for going on some strange rant utilising the usual right-wing waffle.

The sad thing is, their right-wing nonsense has driven away people like Bobbins and Carbomb from the thread altogether pretty much, which is a shame.

 

Thats got to rank high on an 'prickiest post' list.

[David]

I found it quite funny you reeled out the "condoning lying" towards Happ when Sheridan is a convicted and jailed perjurer and you've defended him resolutely. So is his lying okay because you like him?

You must have a strange sense of humour, Yoggy.

 

I asked if he thought that bullshitting the electorate in order to get their vote was justified, which he answered. As for Sheridan, I defend his so-called lying because I know that he didn't actually lie. It's really that simple.

 

Anyone who has looked a bit deeper into this case (which I fully expect you not to have done) will know that there's something not quite right with it all. I'm not going to go into detail as it would take absolutely ages, but I'll answer any questions you wish to ask on the subject.

 

Saying that, if you're going by what you read in the press then I can't blame you for having the opinion you do. Especially the kind of press I can imagine that you read. The majority of people will have gained their information on the subject from the media, and that's fair enough.

[Carbomb]

It's a politics thread. Not a left-wing circle-jerk. If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit they can do so over at the Guardian or other similar website where any diverging opinions are ruthlessly censored.

 

I didn't withdraw because it wasn't "a left-wing circle jerk", I withdrew because I didn't fancy getting into one of your shite, festooned-with-absolute-and-utter-crap, circular, ostrich-with-head-stuck-firmly-down-hole, you-with-head-stuck-firmly-up-arse arguments. Go and set up your straw men with someone else. I won't engage in political discussions with you, but I'm not going to let moronic comments like that slide.

 

If there were more people like, say, Van Dammer or Jonathan Ford on this thread with whom it's possible to have valid, back-and-forth political discussions which address actual points and take counters into account, instead of you with your usual right-wing parroting, I'd probably be more involved.

[patiirc]

I found it quite funny you reeled out the "condoning lying" towards Happ when Sheridan is a convicted and jailed perjurer and you've defended him resolutely. So is his lying okay because you like him?

You must have a strange sense of humour, Yoggy.

 

I asked if he thought that bullshitting the electorate in order to get their vote was justified, which he answered. As for Sheridan, I defend his so-called lying because I know that he didn't actually lie. It's really that simple.

 

Anyone who has looked a bit deeper into this case (which I fully expect you not to have done) will know that there's something not quite right with it all. I'm not going to go into detail as it would take absolutely ages, but I'll answer any questions you wish to ask on the subject.

 

Saying that, if you're going by what you read in the press then I can't blame you for having the opinion you do. Especially the kind of press I can imagine that you read. The majority of people will have gained their information on the subject from the media, and that's fair enough.

 

Please. Dont. Go. There. Again.

 

That shit belongs in the conspriacy thread and not the general politics thread. seriously read back your pro-Sheridan posts, they make Duane's discussions look like wholesome sentient discussions.

 

That sir is not a good thing

[Loki]

It's a politics thread. Not a left-wing circle-jerk. If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit they can do so over at the Guardian or other similar website where any diverging opinions are ruthlessly censored.

 

Er, dude - you actually look at CommentIsFree?

 

1) MoveAnyMountain, CapitalistPigg, torieboy, RightWingTroll, Lord Posh and others get to state their opinion pretty clearly BTL.

 

2) Julian Glover is one of the Guardian's top columnists and frequently writes editorial pieces (even when he's not named, they have his stink).

 

I fucking wish they WOULD ruthlessly censor Comment Is Free, every article seems to be followed by about 50 Daily Mail readers calling Polly Toynbee a pinko commie. They could do with a power-crazed Supermod like Neil over there to hand out some suspensions.

[Happ Hazzard]

It's a politics thread. Not a left-wing circle-jerk. If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit they can do so over at the Guardian or other similar website where any diverging opinions are ruthlessly censored.

 

I didn't withdraw because it wasn't "a left-wing circle jerk", I withdrew because I didn't fancy getting into one of your shite, festooned-with-absolute-and-utter-crap, circular, ostrich-with-head-stuck-firmly-down-hole, you-with-head-stuck-firmly-up-arse arguments. Go and set up your straw men with someone else. I won't engage in political discussions with you, but I'm not going to let moronic comments like that slide.

 

If there were more people like, say, Van Dammer or Jonathan Ford on this thread with whom it's possible to have valid, back-and-forth political discussions which address actual points and take counters into account, instead of you with your usual right-wing parroting, I'd probably be more involved.

Who is "paroting"? Who isn't addressing actual points?

 

If you don't want to debate things with me, don't. It's a politcal discussion thread, you don't have to respond to every single post being made.

[bobbins]

It's a politics thread. Not a left-wing circle-jerk. If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit they can do so over at the Guardian or other similar website where any diverging opinions are ruthlessly censored.

Got to back up Alan here (hey blud). Anyone who goes on CiF knows that every single thread is astroturfed to fuck by lunatic right-wing Randian sociopaths like yourself. You should look into it, it's a growth industry.